Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[Dotta]

It's been widely reported in Greek media that the husband has seen the alleged murderer's face and has provided a sketch to police. If there's a murderous gang on the loose, shouldn't the husband be in hiding? In some kind of witness protection program? Definitely not returning to the same house, right? Seems odd. Very odd.

Lightning never strikes the same place. I even think he is safer in this house than anywhere else. But where is this sketch? Shouldn't the public see it and help to catch the criminal??? Why to mention it and put B in danger?

 

[Winterbells]

Lightning never strikes the same place. I even think he is safer in this house than anywhere else. But where is this sketch? Shouldn't the public see it and help to catch the criminal??? Why to mention it and put B in danger?

But it's not lighting, it's a criminal gang who now know, thanks to their shoddy taping skills, exactly who needs to be silenced.

 

[Dotta]

But it's not lighting, it's a criminal gang who now know, thanks to their shoddy taping skills, exactly who needs to be silenced.

A metaphor? I bet police is waiting for whoever might be coming to this wretched house.

 

[Patrick Jane]

this is a policeman on a segment of a Greek morning show

around 6:00 the policeman rejects the journalist's statement that "no DNA has been found" and corrects him to say we can't say for sure that "no DNA has been found" as apparently "a little (bit of) DNA" was found

at 2:30 they discuss that, as of yesterday, the husband has returned to live at the house

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around 1:20 the journalist asks if we know time of death based on the autopsy and the policeman responds that, based on the information he's received, that the time of death was around 4:20-4:30 a.m., BUT he strongly cautions that this is just based on the information he's received

 

[tayaway]

So what happened between aprox 4:30 and 6ish, when Babis called the police? The thieves didn't torture her for an hour, as earlier suggested? Was Babis unconscious that whole time or for most of it? Will forensic science solve this case?

 

[Polly Graf]

Even if he got a good look at one of them, how does he know that’s the one that killed her? Either his eyes were covered from before she died so he didn’t know she’d gone until the police arrived, orrr he saw who killed her, can’t be both….

I don’t get why she’s unrestrained in that reconstruction, if her hands were tied behind her back when were they released again and why?

 

[fraudqueen]

Sorry if I missed it.....is this one house or two townhomes? Do we know what kind of dog it was, big or small?

 

[Dotta]

But did the police took pics of the victims when they arrived? Photos of C on the bed and photos of B covered in tape?

 

[Polly Graf]

Sorry if I missed it.....is this one house or two townhomes? Do we know what kind of dog it was, big or small?

It’s a semi detached house and the dog was a Husky

 

[Tortoise]

But did the police took pics of the victims when they arrived? Photos of C on the bed and photos of B covered in tape?

I don't know about C, I expect the medical examiner might have photographed her before removing her body from the scene, but B was not photographed before the string and tape was removed. It was in one of the more recent transcripts, I'll see if I can find it again.

 

[Winterbells]

A metaphor? I bet police is waiting for whoever might be coming to this wretched house.

I understand you were using a metaphor, but does it apply in this case without a 24 hour police guard on the house and it's owner (and child?).

 

[Dotta]

The lack of footprints (outside and inside) is the most suspicious to me. I dont think they wore "museum protectors" on their muddy or dusty boots. Mud and dust from this wild vegetation unused empty lot.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Sorry if I missed it.....is this one house or two townhomes? Do we know what kind of dog it was, big or small?

It's a maisonette. It's the maisonette on the left as seen in the first photo below. There's another maisonette right next to it. So it's a duplex. A maisonette duplex.

From what I can tell the basement seems to be at least part garage too, underneath the balcony on the left.

Pictures of house from DM Greece burglary murder: Woman's daughter was 'trying to wake her up' as police arrived | Daily Mail Online

Video which seems to show the underground garage in the background

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[Dotta]

I understand you were using a metaphor, but does it apply in this case without a 24 hour police guard on the house and it's owner (and child?).

If B is not a bait for a gang now then why disclose that he saw a face of a killer? Where is this sketch? Why isnt it published like "Wanted by police"?

 

[Dotta]

If B is not a bait for a gang now then why disclose that he saw a face of a killer? Where is this sketch? Why isnt it published like "Wanted by police"?

And this cleaning service out of the blue? Undercover cops? Who knows? My imagination is running Wild haha

 

[Orgona]

Here we have a Greek media report. Starting around 6:40 it shows the details of the "scene" which confronted LE as they came upon the husband, the baby, and the victim. This is constructed based on witnesses and this news show's reporting. If this report is accurate, I'd say it raises many questions which, thus far, are unanswered.

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Wow, I can’t help but agree with others that this re-enactment doesn’t seem right.
Never mind the clothes, maybe it’s just sloppy graphic work and they wanted to depict a sleeping dress and pajamas. I can’t find explanation for the shoes, though, so that must be wrong. Actually I could, but...

I wonder how they managed to restrain and suffocate CC if her hands weren’t tied?
I also can’t help but notice that one doesn’t need the nose to dial any number if the actual hands were free.
Another strange thing is if the upper arms are taped to the body, one can still reach their head to remove some of the tape when the head is bowed down unless their underarm is strangely short or their upper body is way to long.

This is so wrong on so many levels that I’m wondering how trustworthy this source is.
What are the odds that they have excess to the real report or to policemen working on the case?
Would this be normal in Greece?

If this is truly how LE found the scene, this could be the stupidest staging right down to how someone forgot to take off their shoes. That would be really stupid and can’t be right?

I suspect the reports are sensationalized for more views and wanting to report any information first without really making sure how true it is.

Or is this a respected channel which vets their information carefully?

All IMHO

 

[Tortoise]

I don't know about C, I expect the medical examiner might have photographed her before removing her body from the scene, but B was not photographed before the string and tape was removed. It was in one of the more recent transcripts, I'll see if I can find it again.

Found it

"Reconsidering the way the criminals allegedly tied him up. It is also considered crucial that the police officers who rushed to the scene - as soon as ELAS was notified of the murder in Glyka Nera - did not photograph him and hurried to solve him.

And so there is no clear picture that he was exactly tied up by the perpetrators."

Κατέθεσε στην Αστυνομία ο ψυχολόγος που παρακολουθούσε την 20χρονη Καρολάιν - ΤΑ ΝΕΑ

 

[Dotta]

Found it

"Reconsidering the way the criminals allegedly tied him up. It is also considered crucial that the police officers who rushed to the scene - as soon as ELAS was notified of the murder in Glyka Nera - did not photograph him and hurried to solve him.

And so there is no clear picture that he was exactly tied up by the perpetrators."

Κατέθεσε στην Αστυνομία ο ψυχολόγος που παρακολουθούσε την 20χρονη Καρολάιν - ΤΑ ΝΕΑ

Shame!!!

 

[Winterbells]

Wow, I can’t help but agree with others that this re-enactment doesn’t seem right.
Never mind the clothes, maybe it’s just sloppy graphic work and they wanted to depict a sleeping dress and pajamas. I can’t find explanation for the shoes, though, so that must be wrong. Actually I could, but...

I wonder how they managed to restrain and suffocate CC if her hands weren’t tied?
I also can’t help but notice that one doesn’t need the nose to dial any number if the actual hands were free.
Another strange thing is if the upper arms are taped to the body, one can still reach their head to remove some of the tape when the head is bowed down unless their underarm is strangely short or their upper body is way to long.

This is so wrong on so many levels that I’m wondering how trustworthy this source is.
What are the odds that they have excess to the real report or to policemen working on the case?
Would this be normal in Greece?

If this is truly how LE found the scene, this could be the stupidest staging right down to how someone forgot to take off their shoes. That would be really stupid and can’t be right?

I suspect the reports are sensationalized for more views and wanting to report any information first without really making sure how true it is.

Or is this a respected channel which vets their information carefully?

All IMHO

I agree, @Orgona that the presence of shoes in the re-enacted scene is very strange.

Regarding tied or not tied hands... I guess if the perps were holding a gun to the child's head, CC would comply with whatever they demanded of her and she wouldn't have put up a fight.

 

[Dotta]

But body cams of police could help, provided they were used.