Found Deceased Greece - Dr. Suzanne Eaton, 60, American, gone for a run, Crete, 2 Jul 2019 *ARREST*

[otto]

...

 

[otto]

If she was grabbed by someone waiting at the turnoff, he could have taken her into this pit area. I'm guessing investigators have scoured this area

 

[Zella]

Too much is being made of SE being a black belt in tae kwan do imo. My partner's ex was a black belt in karate. One night, she got mugged. She said she just froze and the guy just took her stuff (probably the safest thing in the end anyway). In that moment, all her years of self defence training came to naught. That kind of martial arts won't necessarily help in a real situation, where the person you're up against isn't following any rules or obeying any kind of honour system. I imagine there are other kinds of fight styles that are probably more relevant to the kind of violence you'd encounter on the street, e.g. styles based on military fighting (krav maga, for example)

And of course, as already mentioned, a smallish unarmed 60 year old woman vs a man with a weapon? It's no match.

Agreed!

IMO just because she had advanced martial arts training doesn't mean that necessarily translates to effective street fighting skills, especially when the assailant/assailants are fighting dirty, as opposed to controlled encounters in a training setting where everyone is playing by the rules.

 

[Patrick Jane]

IMO, I was expecting to see more evidence of a struggle.

Is it possible that her "defensive" and "substantial knife wounds" (American found murdered in WWII bunker in Greece fought for her life, police say) were sustained later, in other words, post-abduction? (speculative question, NOT fact)

If her wounds were sustained at the time of abduction, wouldn't it be likely that blood would be found at the scene?

JMO

 

[otto]

IMO, I was expecting to see more evidence of a struggle.

Is it possible that her "defensive" and "substantial knife wounds" (American found murdered in WWII bunker in Greece fought for her life, police say) were sustained later, in other words, post-abduction? (speculation, NOT fact)

If her wounds were sustained at the time of abduction wouldn't it be likely that blood would be found at the scene?

JMO

My impression is that forensic analysis is ongoing, Suzanne was not murdered at the time of abduction, she was abducted in a passenger car (not a van or a truck), and police are looking for the place where Suzanne was taken after abduction and prior to being dropped into the cave.

"When a corpse is rotting, it is very difficult to distinguish pre-death from post-mortem injuries. "

Besides, the findings of the lengthy and persistent examination seem to be a complicated criminal act, which is also confirmed by Mr. Papadomanolakis, saying: "Something has become ... complicated and the American's death was not immediate." said the distinguished Cretan Coroner."
​

July 11
Δολοφονία Σούζαν Ήτον: Δεν την σκότωσαν στη σπηλιά – Οι λεπτομέρειες είναι προς όφελος του δράστη ή των δραστών - zarpanews.gr

"Specifically, traces of passenger car wheels were detected, since the right and left branches of the route had been broken down to a low height. At the same time, the authorities "sweep" farmhouses, pens, suburbs in the wider region. They are looking for the crime scene, the place where the suspect drove Suzanne before transferring her to the cave."​

July 14
Κρήτη: Η βιολόγος πάλεψε με τον δολοφόνο της - Συγκλονίζει ο γιος της αδικοχαμένης Suzanne Eaton.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

why not a greek woman?

 

[otto]

why not a greek woman?

Are you asking why the suspect is not likely a Greek woman?

 

[LVatty10]

Thank you to our Greek posters, @Patrick Jane and @CityDancer !

Do not have much of anything to add.

At this point, I lean towards an opportunistic predator who may have seen Ms Eaton out running the day or two before.

IMO it was a sexually motivated attack. However, the perp/perv may not have been able to SA given the ferocity of the fight she put up in her defense. Glad she went down swinging!

I would guess the perp would have scratches/bites. Hopefully they have not had time to heal.

After reading about Jean Hanlon, I am starting to think maybe this is a SK. I know disposal of the body is different but JH also had defensive wounds and a broken neck. The killer could have been dormant for the last 10 years until now. I’m not particularly knowledgeable on SKs but its not unheard of for a SK to have periods where they do not kill.

SE and JH were both foreigners. In the same general age bracket. There could be a connection. At the least, I’d think LE should keep that case in mind.
Edited for grammar

 

[otto]

Thank you to our Greek posters, @Patrick Jane and @CityDancer !

Do not have much of anything to add.

At this point, I lean towards an opportunistic predator who may have seen Ms Eaton out running the day or two before.

IMO it was a sexually motivated attack. However, the perp/perv may not have able to SA given the ferocity of the fight she put up in her defense. Glad she went down swinging!

I would guess the perp would have scratches/bites. Hopefully they have not had time to heal.

After reading about Jean Hanlon, I am starting to think maybe this is a SK. I know disposal of the body is different but JH also had defensive wounds and a broken neck. The killer could have been dormant for the last 10 years until now. I’m not particularly knowledgeable on SKs but its not unheard of for a SK to have periods where they do not kill.

SE and JH were both foreigners. In the same general age bracket. There could be a connection. At the least, I’d think LE should keep that case in mind.

There was renewed interest and media reports about Hanlon in June this year to commemorate the 10 year anniversary. I too wonder if Hanlon's murderer also murdered Suzanne for attention.

 

[LVatty10]

There was renewed interest and media reports about Hanlon in June this year to commemorate the 10 year anniversary. I too wonder if Hanlon's murderer also murdered Suzanne for attention.

Exactly. Killers like anniversaries. 10 years is a big one. Renewed interest in JH could certainly have emboldened him to kill again.

 

[Zella]

Thank you to our Greek posters, @Patrick Jane and @CityDancer !

Do not have much of anything to add.

At this point, I lean towards an opportunistic predator who may have seen Ms Eaton out running the day or two before.

IMO it was a sexually motivated attack. However, the perp/perv may not have been able to SA given the ferocity of the fight she put up in her defense. Glad she went down swinging!

I would guess the perp would have scratches/bites. Hopefully they have not had time to heal.

After reading about Jean Hanlon, I am starting to think maybe this is a SK. I know disposal of the body is different but JH also had defensive wounds and a broken neck. The killer could have been dormant for the last 10 years until now. I’m not particularly knowledgeable on SKs but its not unheard of for a SK to have periods where they do not kill.

SE and JH were both foreigners. In the same general age bracket. There could be a connection. At the least, I’d think LE should keep that case in mind.
Edited for grammar

This matches what I was thinking (though I was unaware of Hanlon.)

I've seen speculation on here it might have been a hit and run and the driver panicked, but IMO if that were the case, I think her body would have been left at the scene of the accident or, at most, still been nearby but dragged somewhat out of sight. The fact she was put in the vehicle and taken elsewhere and the body was hidden the way it was really does sound like a predator who saw the chance to strike.

 

[CityDancer]

Thank you to our Greek posters, @Patrick Jane and @CityDancer !

Do not have much of anything to add.

At this point, I lean towards an opportunistic predator who may have seen Ms Eaton out running the day or two before.

IMO it was a sexually motivated attack. However, the perp/perv may not have been able to SA given the ferocity of the fight she put up in her defense. Glad she went down swinging!

I would guess the perp would have scratches/bites. Hopefully they have not had time to heal.

After reading about Jean Hanlon, I am starting to think maybe this is a SK. I know disposal of the body is different but JH also had defensive wounds and a broken neck. The killer could have been dormant for the last 10 years until now. I’m not particularly knowledgeable on SKs but its not unheard of for a SK to have periods where they do not kill.

SE and JH were both foreigners. In the same general age bracket. There could be a connection. At the least, I’d think LE should keep that case in mind.
Edited for grammar

You're welcome @LVatty10. I agree that it most likely is a sexually motivated attack. From my knowledge and readings about SKs, they do pause from time to time, but a 10-year pause is rather unusual - it would be an outlier, as it were - unless the perp had been unable to kill for some other reason i.e. he'd been doing time or had been living away from Crete and may have killed elsewhere.

 

[otto]

You're welcome @LVatty10. I agree that it most likely is a sexually motivated attack. From my knowledge and readings about SKs, they do pause from time to time, but a 10-year pause is rather unusual - it would be an outlier, as it were - unless the perp had been unable to kill for some other reason i.e. he'd been doing time or had been living away from Crete and may have killed elsewhere.

Dennis Rader murdered again because media stories were released on the 30th anniversary of the first murder.

"His final known victim, Dolores Davis, was taken from her home on January 19, 1991. ... With many news stories marking the 30th anniversary of the Otero murders, BTK resurfaced in 2004."​

https://www.biography.com/crime-figure/dennis-rader

Hanlon's murder was dismissed as accident or suicide until the family forced authorities to do a proper investigation. Then is was ruled a murder. How many other women on Crete have disappeared and been dismissed as accident or suicide?

 

[indicolite22]

Exactly. Killers like anniversaries. 10 years is a big one. Renewed interest in JH could certainly have emboldened him to kill again.

I was under the impression that Jean Hanlon's killer could have been someone she knew and possibly had a relationship with. The night she disappeared she was taken by someone (that person?) from her village to the Heraklion area (she didn't drive). In Suzanne's case, there's no idication that she knew her killer.
It was reported that two men were arrested a year after Jean's murder. I'm guessing they were not charged.

Crete death 'treated as murder'

 

[otto]

I was under the impression that Jean Hanlon's killer could have been someone she knew and possibly had a relationship with. The night she disappeared she was taken by someone (that person?) from her village to the Heraklion area (she didn't drive). In Suzanne's case, there's no idication that she knew her killer.
It was reported that two men were arrested a year after Jean's murder. I'm guessing they were not charged.

Crete death 'treated as murder'

That's true, but 10 years ago the person who beat and murdered Hanlon may have been just getting started. There's an unidentified man named Nico who is frequently mentioned in her diary at the time of the murder.

 

[Patrick Jane]

My impression is that forensic analysis is ongoing, Suzanne was not murdered at the time of abduction, she was abducted in a passenger car (not a van or a truck), and police are looking for the place where Suzanne was taken after abduction and prior to being dropped into the cave.

"When a corpse is rotting, it is very difficult to distinguish pre-death from post-mortem injuries. "

Besides, the findings of the lengthy and persistent examination seem to be a complicated criminal act, which is also confirmed by Mr. Papadomanolakis, saying: "Something has become ... complicated and the American's death was not immediate." said the distinguished Cretan Coroner."
​

July 11
Δολοφονία Σούζαν Ήτον: Δεν την σκότωσαν στη σπηλιά – Οι λεπτομέρειες είναι προς όφελος του δράστη ή των δραστών - zarpanews.gr

"Specifically, traces of passenger car wheels were detected, since the right and left branches of the route had been broken down to a low height. At the same time, the authorities "sweep" farmhouses, pens, suburbs in the wider region. They are looking for the crime scene, the place where the suspect drove Suzanne before transferring her to the cave."​

July 14
Κρήτη: Η βιολόγος πάλεψε με τον δολοφόνο της - Συγκλονίζει ο γιος της αδικοχαμένης Suzanne Eaton.

the following is all speculation . . .

the three locations we've speculated on:

1) the abduction site
2) the site she was taken to (referred to in your link as "the crime scene")
3) the bunker where the body was found

Even if LE is correct and a passenger car was used for the bunker (location #3), this does not preclude that another type of vehicle was used for the abduction site (location 1), as the perp may have had more than one vehicle. But let's keep it simple and say (speculate) the perp had only one car, a passenger car. The perp would have to get the victim into the trunk (I'm assuming this would be a sedan with a trunk, and not a hatchback, which are incredibly common here).
I'm having trouble envisioning how a random perp who doesn't know the victim gets the victim into his car without evidence of a struggle being found (such as blood).
And we'd assume he'd put her in the trunk, right? So she would not be seen. Which means she would have to be bound (while alive and presumably fighting), right?

Would the perp's brandishing a knife be enough for the victim to comply and enter his trunk?
Would the perp's brandishing a gun be enough for the victim to comply and enter his trunk?

IMO the victim would not have just complied to either of those scenarios.

Earlier in the thread, didn't you mention a case where a perp hit the victim with something (I don't remember what) to get them into the trunk.
It seems to me that something like that would possibly have happened here. Otherwise, I'm back to questioning whether the victim knew the perp.

What if there is no second site (location #2)? In other words, what if the vehicle is the "crime scene" where the victim sustained the knife wounds and was suffocated.
JMO

 

[glassheater]

the following is all speculation . . .

the three locations we've speculated on:

1) the abduction site
2) the site she was taken to (referred to in your link as "the crime scene")
3) the bunker where the body was found

Even if LE is correct and a passenger car was used for the bunker (location #3), this does not preclude that another type of vehicle was used for the abduction site (location 1), as the perp may have had more than one vehicle. But let's keep it simple and say (speculate) the perp had only one car, a passenger car. The perp would have to get the victim into the trunk (I'm assuming this would be a sedan with a trunk, and not a hatchback, which are incredibly common here).
I'm having trouble envisioning how a random perp who doesn't know the victim gets the victim into his car without evidence of a struggle being found (such as blood).
And we'd assume he'd put her in the trunk, right? So as not to be seen. Which means she would have to be bound (while alive and presumably fighting)?

Would the perp's brandishing a knife be enough for the victim to comply and enter his trunk?
Would the perp's brandishing a gun be enough for the victim to comply and enter his trunk?

IMO the victim would not have just complied to either of those scenarios.

Earlier in the thread, didn't you mention a case where a perp hit the victim with something (I don't remember what) to get them into the trunk.
It seems to me that something like that would possibly have happened here. Otherwise, I'm back to questioning whether the victim knew the perp.

What if there is no second site (location #2)? In other words, what if the vehicle is the "crime scene" where the victim sustained the knife wounds and was suffocated.
JMO

Im still leaving open the possibility that someone offered a ride and she accepted. She felt safe enough in Crete to hike alone on isolated roads without a phone. She felt safe enough to leave the room to her door unlocked. Perhaps she was tired since this was beyond her normal mileage.

ETA: I also think the theory of more than one perp makes sense. If she was abducted where we suspect, it’s closer to Kolimvari and tourists bike and hike along there. It would take quite a bit more time to stop, park, get out and grab her, somehow subdue her but have her still alive, throw her in the car, get back in and drive off. This would be accomplished much quicker with two + perps. JMO

 

[CityDancer]

Im still leaving open the possibility that someone offered a ride and she accepted. She felt safe enough in Crete to hike alone on isolated roads without a phone. She felt safe enough to leave the room to her door unlocked. Perhaps she was tired since this was beyond her normal mileage. JMO

Excellent points @glassheater. Occam's razor.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

All this talk of drunken driver, accidental etc etc.
Realize, the Crete State Police Chief is quoted in numerous reporting "this is 100% homicide".
He also called it the strangest crime he's ever investigated. Beware!! Keep all options open, do not let your prejudices cloud your thinking

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It would depend on the location of these stab wounds. If these were numerous defensive wounds, they would not be consistent with a car hitting her. Also, what part of a car would cause multiple small cuts?
Were there any prior cases when someone hit a person with their car unintentionally, with the person surviving the crash and they then murdered the person and hid the body in order to cover up the accident?

Unfortunately, there is a somewhat similar case to what was theorized (***caution, graphic***)

A nurse's aide hit a man with her car, parked in her garage with him still stuck headfirst in her broken windshield and ignored his cries for help as he bled to death over the next two days, the police said.

The driver, Chante Mallard, said she periodically went into the garage and apologized to the victim, but did nothing to help him, investigators said.

Ms. Mallard, 25, of Fort Worth, was arrested on murder charges on Wednesday and was later released on bond. She faces from five years to life in prison and a fine up to $10,000.

Driver Hit Man and Let Him Die in Her Garage, Police Say


However, IMO, it sounds as if Dr. Eaton put up a fight with her attacker. To me it sounds as if it’s an intentional attack. We haven’t heard of any evidence of her being hit by a car.

ETA: added victim’s name.

 

[afitzy]

<modsnip - quoted a removed post>

@otto, do you think the pit shown in your prior post would have offered sufficient coverage for a car to hide from view from above? Its hard to get the exact perspective that people from the town above would have of the pit or even if the pit is too far out of town to be visible from town or if the pit would be visible to any car or truck passing by? The pit did look quite deep IMO so might offer shelter from road view.

I also wonder after 6 pm or so how much traffic would there be on the main road where it seems she was abducted from? Posters earlier mentioned the afternoon 'break' period that is taken by many people in the region. Would people in this area remain in their houses for dinner or would they venture out after dark and so be on the roads?

Or would it make more sense for the perp/s to take SE to another location under the cover of a roof perhaps that was more secluded than the pit, wait for complete darkness and dispose of the body at that time?

 

[glassheater]

I also want to add: she was last seen playing the piano around 3. So let’s say she went to her room changed and headed out around 3:30. The point where she was abducted during her walk would be around 4:30-5. [ this could also be the reason she may of accepted a ride. To be back in time to shower and dress for the 6pm session ]I believe there would be increased traffic then due to the siesta nearing it’s end and perhaps tourists wanting to bike/walk the popular route from Kolimvari to Afrata in late afternoon temps. Plus, it would give them a nice sunset view on the way back.