Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[jjenny]

If a child was kidnapped from a stroller from some prosperous country/parents, it'd likely not be so difficult to figure out who she was. So I agree it's probably not that simple.

 

[josie1986]

One of the articles said "Maria" was also immature for her age. If Lisa's height is accurate she is off the charts tall for her age. She really does look like her. If by some crazy chance it were her, I'm afraid I would have to stand hard against her being returned to those awful parents though. Just sayin.

bbm completely agree.

the more i look at the photo it looks like Lisa but i know it is a very small chance...don't think i could eat crow over DB bein innocent :scared:

 

[Yoda]

"The woman had two different identification documents and other papers suggested the couple had up to 14 children, but six were registered as having been born within less than 10 months. They received 2,790 euros ($3,800) a month in child benefits, a police source said."

BBM $3800??? Where does it go if they are living in squalor and having the children beg on the streets?!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/19/us-greece-girl-idUSBRE99I05W20131019

 

[gitana1]

Very cool ! Actually was wondering how some of these headlines were making some people feel and worried about the use of the term "Gypsy" in the news items.
Although I have been taught that "Roma' was a more respectful title, in some documentaries that I have watched concerning traveling people, they said that they prefer to be called Gypsy.
Everyone from everywhere has some title assigned to them, positive and negative- yes some associate Roma with child theft , but they are also known to many as great musicians and singers!
Good people, bad people of all stripes- it just depends on which ever group happens to be in the "hot seat" at the right/wrong time,to be demonized imo.

Thank you for that. I don't mind the title "Gypsy" but many do. My screen name is Spanish for "Gypsy girl". (Pronunced hee tah nah). I'm proud of my heritage. But I'm also realistic. The Roma are a pariah society, never accepted, always marginalized, so they live off the host society but never a real part of it. Historically, Roma have engaged in horse trading, tinkering and entertainment. (Generalization). Poverty has led to a number engaged in criminal activity like drugs and begging.

But my own people were products of the royal edict of Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand, that Roma must stop being nomadic and any who did would be tortured to death. They retreated to camps and caves and developed the art of Flamenco. That's what my whole family is, professional Flamenco dancers, singers, guitarists. That's how my mom met my dad. She went to Spain to study Flamenco dance and worked with my dad's sisters who began performing as children. My poor uncle left home at 15 to travel the world playing guitar. It was not an easy life. But especially under the Franco dictatorship, it was hard for Gypsies to get jobs. But our people are more prosperous than the street Gypsies and do not engage in crinal activity, at all. We are the same tribe/group as the Gypsy Kings (musical group) from France.

 

[PFF]

Saw this report on the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24589614

 

[haden]

I thought the DNA test can distinguish the part of the world the person comes from..
Is it not the case?

 

[huckleberryhound]

If this girl is the child of a prostitute or drug addict, who was sold to the Roma, then her best chance of ever being identified is probably extended family like grandparents. Hopefully, someone will see her picture and realize she looks exactly like their daughter or sister who they have lost contact with.

 

[Cappuccino]

I thought the DNA test can distinguish the part of the world the person comes from..
Is it not the case?

No, that's not the case. Haplogroups can tell you a person's ethnicity, but that's only relevant when dealing with skeletal or badly decomposed remains. No need to look at a living child's haplogroup, we can already see her ethnicity by looking at her.

There are ways of narrowing down a person's origin if they've come from an isolated area in terms of water supply and food supply. I know the police in London used it to trace a child whose torso was found in the Thames back to a specific village in Africa. It has nothing to do with DNA though, its something to do with chemical analysis of the bones.

 

[~n/t~]

I checked Interpol. One child with similar features. Her name is Izzard Melisande. I'm on an iPad and don't know how to post pics:blushing: If someone can help by googling it would be appreciated.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I know very little about the disappearance of Lisa Irwin or the geography or demographics of Missouri. But I did learn she disappeared from Missouri and I did look at her pic. I think she resembles Maria, particularly in the forehead and eye area. I also recalled the case of another little girl that disappeared from Missouri and had recently read about a gypsy link; although the other girl disappeared decades earlier. Here is that link:

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=932092#.UmMFSTK9KSM

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Can someone explain the Lisa Irwin issue that's been mentioned regarding a birth certificate?

 

[Elley Mae]

Thank you for that. I don't mind the title "Gypsy" but many do. My screen name is Spanish for "Gypsy girl". (Pronunced hee tah nah). I'm proud of my heritage. But I'm also realistic. The Roma are a pariah society, never accepted, always marginalized, so they live off the host society but never a real part of it. Historically, Roma have engaged in horse trading, tinkering and entertainment. (Generalization). Poverty has led to a number engaged in criminal activity like drugs and begging.

But my own people were products of the royal edict of Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand, that Roma must stop being nomadic and any who did would be tortured to death. They retreated to camps and caves and developed the art of Flamenco. That's what my whole family is, professional Flamenco dancers, singers, guitarists. That's how my mom met my dad. She went to Spain to study Flamenco dance and worked with my dad's sisters who began performing as children. My poor uncle left home at 15 to travel the world playing guitar. It was not an easy life. But especially under the Franco dictatorship, it was hard for Gypsies to get jobs. But our people are more prosperous than the street Gypsies and do not engage in crinal activity, at all. We are the same tribe/group as the Gypsy Kings (musical group) from France.

I must say, Thanks for sharing your families history. It has helped me to better understand (Roma). And the fond memories of Tyrone Powers dancing the Flamenco in Zorro movies.

 

[Dixie811]

http://www.interpol.int/en­/Missing-Persons/(missing_id)/2011-52935

Izzard Melisande^^

Born in 2008.

Blonde hair, blue eyes.

Born in Chicago.

Speaks russian and english.

 

[Elley Mae]

I thought the DNA test can distinguish the part of the world the person comes from..
Is it not the case?

Yes according to this, I guess it just depends on what they are looking for. Evidently the test they did just showed that she is not the child of the two that claim to be the parents.

http://www.familytreedna.com/test-descriptions.aspx

 

[~n/t~]

http://www.interpol.int/en­/Missing-Persons/(missing_id)/2011-52935

Izzard Melisande^^

Born in 2008.

Blonde hair, blue eyes.

Born in Chicago.

Speaks russian and english.

Thank you for posting it. :seeya: thoughts?

 

[jjenny]

Doesn't look like the same child. But could be of the same ethnicity (russian).

 

[time]

Thanks for posting video. It looks like she is being trained to dance Roma style.
" Maria's" hair does look more like strawberry blonde and appears to me to have that somewhat bulging fore-head that some might consider a sign of lack of vitamin D imo.
Interesting that she has kept her pale skin and yet possibly begs in the outdoors of a hot Greek climate....hoping that her" work "is outside anyway...

I'm wondering, to me the younger picture looks like it was dyed (henna?) and the older her natural color. Also, in my family most of us were born with a lot of hair and very dark, some almost black, but as that is lost it comes in blonde. One of my sisters had nearly white hair but was born with a full head of dark brown/black hair. I don't know how rare this is or if it is, but it's the opposite of what typically happens. She appears a bit too old in her younger pic for this to be the case, but IDK.

 

[~n/t~]

Doesn't look like the same child. But could be of the same ethnicity (russian).

What makes you so sure? She was 2 in that picture. A side by side would be helpful

 

[Wallflowery]

http://www.interpol.int/en­/Missing-Persons/(missing_id)/2011-52935

Izzard Melisande^^

Born in 2008.

Blonde hair, blue eyes.

Born in Chicago.

Speaks russian and english.

If you google Melisande's case, it's a parental abduction where the mother took her to Russia and the U.S. officials perform periodic welfare checks (4x year) -- meaning, she's not missing, per se. She is confirmed to be with her mother and in Russia.

 

[Cappuccino]

Yes according to this, I guess it just depends on what they are looking for. Evidently the test they did just showed that she is not the child of the two that claim to be the parents.

http://www.familytreedna.com/test-descriptions.aspx

No, that link just reiterates what I said about haplogroups showing ethnicity. It doesn't help at all with an individual's place of origin - eg, a person's haplogroup could show their ethnicity as sub-Saharan African, but they could have been born and bred in London from Jamaican parents.