Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[21merc7]

Oh this is so sad. Looking through a lot of missing children sites, so many, quite a few with blond hair and blue eyes. Mostly U.S., but one was in Italy. I guess the browser sends to U.S. cases first if looking from a computer in the U.S.

If LE knows where this exchange happened it might help to figure out who she is. Where the family have been living or traveling. Don't know if they know that though.

Going to guess that LE and/or Interpol would have access to world wide reported missing children data bases, not just Greece and surrounding areas?

 

[Norwegian]

This is a general questions about DNA.

For some time I've been watching shows like "Who do you think you are?" I love it, the stories of these people are sometimes like novels!

They run the persons DNA and the result says he/she is 80% European, 10% African and 10% Native American. Sometimes they can even pinpoint it down to nationality in Europe or tribe in Africa etc.

I'm just thinking they should be able to tell more about Maria based on her DNA? Or?

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Well, as I stated in a post I made a few pages back, the first thought I had when I saw this little girl's face on TV was, not the face of little Lisa Irwin, but her mother's face popped into my mind. I have since realized it probably could not be Lisa, but I did go back to little Lisa's thread to see if I could find a photo of her mother, but could only find a video. There is something about this little girl found in Greece that makes me see Lisa Irwin's mother when I look at her. I guess it is wishful thinking that Baby Lisa could be found alive. I know all the facts as have been presented now point to the fact that "Maria" is maybe 6 or 7 years old, but then I seem to recall that Lisa was once stated as being large for her age. I know I'm grasping at straws here, but just cannot get "Maria" and Baby Lisa out of my thoughts right now.

 

[jjenny]

This child clearly is not baby Lisa. Baby Lisa might have been large for her age, but the age of Maria was determined by her dental examination, not her size. Also, aside from blond hair and blue eyes, I don't see any resemblance to baby Lisa.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

This child clearly is not baby Lisa. Baby Lisa might have been large for her age, but the age of Maria was determined by her dental examination, not her size.

Yes, you are correct about the dental examination. I knew that. Sorry, but like SuziQ posted, it really is strange how much she does look like she could be related to Lisa's mother. IMO

 

[Project35]

I'm just thinking they should be able to tell more about Maria based on her DNA? Or?

I've read up on those tests and I have a feeling that they can be quite vague. It would work better if a family had a pure heritage from one country going back many generations but I don't think it would be conclusive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9912822/DNA-ancestry-tests-branded-meaningless.html

 

[SuziQ]

Well, as I stated in a post I made a few pages back, the first thought I had when I saw this little girl's face on TV was, not the face of little Lisa Irwin, but her mother's face popped into my mind. I have since realized it probably could not be Lisa, but I did go back to little Lisa's thread to see if I could find a photo of her mother, but could only find a video. There is something about this little girl found in Greece that makes me see Lisa Irwin's mother when I look at her. I guess it is wishful thinking that Baby Lisa could be found alive. I know all the facts as have been presented now point to the fact that "Maria" is maybe 6 or 7 years old, but then I seem to recall that Lisa was once stated as being large for her age. I know I'm grasping at straws here, but just cannot get "Maria" and Baby Lisa out of my thoughts right now.

I can't get Maria and Baby Lisa out of my head either. The facts of this case and my mind are not cooperating at the moment.

 

[Cappuccino]

This is a general questions about DNA.

For some time I've been watching shows like "Who do you think you are?" I love it, the stories of these people are sometimes like novels!

They run the persons DNA and the result says he/she is 80% European, 10% African and 10% Native American. Sometimes they can even pinpoint it down to nationality in Europe or tribe in Africa etc.

I'm just thinking they should be able to tell more about Maria based on her DNA? Or?

I don't think DNA in this case is going to tell us much that you can't already tell by looking at her - ie, she's European. The reason those programmes are able to come out with such detailed histories is that they have other information to work with, older family members, documents, etc.

 

[Elley Mae]

This is a general questions about DNA.

For some time I've been watching shows like "Who do you think you are?" I love it, the stories of these people are sometimes like novels!

They run the persons DNA and the result says he/she is 80% European, 10% African and 10% Native American. Sometimes they can even pinpoint it down to nationality in Europe or tribe in Africa etc.

I'm just thinking they should be able to tell more about Maria based on her DNA? Or?

iirc they can trace the mom's side pretty good but I am thinking that the dad's side is not that easy,

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/

snipped
With a simple and painless cheek swab, you submit a sample of your DNA to our lab. We then run a comprehensive analysis to identify thousands of genetic markers on your mitochondrial DNA, which is passed down each generation from mother to child, to reveal your direct maternal deep ancestry.

But you are right, they should be able to at least know where mom is from. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/oct/22/greece-roma-police-girl-maria-video

Greece's Roma community criticises police for taking mystery girl Maria - video

 

[zwiebel]

Live report on BBC Radio from Farsala

Couple's own lawyer(?!) said she doubts their assertion that the woman they say gave them the child was Bulgarian. She says the coloring of the child makes her think they were misled by the mother.

A local townsman said he often saw Maria and her Roma 'mom' in the town square, where Maria would be begging, and he once asked 'mom' how she'd had such a blonde child. I didn't catch what her explanation was though, sorry.

ALL birth certificates issued in the past SIX years are going to be checked, Greek authorities have just announced, as well.

Ireland - police have just removed a small blonde child from a Roma family there, after a tip. They were not convinced by the story and documents the parents provided.

Will try and get some written links for above.

 

[21merc7]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/oct/22/greece-roma-police-girl-maria-video

Greece's Roma community criticises police for taking mystery girl Maria - video

I can't listen as no speakers at work.

Been looking up missing children Bulgaria, and missing children Romania. I had always heard things were not good there for children, but I had no idea. A lot are abandoned due to poverty and/or birth defects and placed in facilities that are overcrowded and have no care, malnourished, forced to stay in a cot, oh it gets worse. Some never learn to talk as no one talks to them. Then there is a lot of child trafficking for adoptions, sex trade, to put them to work for money, or even one site suggesting for organ trafficking!

I can see why some would criticize if Maria seemed healthy and well cared for then they may think she was better off with this family than in a facility or trafficked. Thing is, we don't know if she was going to be sold by this family!

Wish I hadn't started looking it up...

 

[Donjeta]

Babis Dimitriou, chairman of the local Roma community, told The Daily Telegraph: "There was a Bulgarian husband and wife who were working around Greece in temporary jobs, who used to stay here sometimes.

"At one point they left the girl to be raised by the family here in the village.

"The family raised the child as if it was their own, although her father would come back every now and then to see her. The last time he visited was only five days ago, after the arrests had been made.

"All the other Roma here were telling the Bulgarian man to explain to the police that the girl was his, but he has now disappeared."

How (in)convenient.

http://news.sky.com/story/1157469/maria-roma-couple-charged-with-abduction

The article says her alleged birthday is January 31 2009.

 

[Donjeta]

I can't listen as no speakers at work.

Been looking up missing children Bulgaria, and missing children Romania. I had always heard things were not good there for children, but I had no idea. A lot are abandoned due to poverty and/or birth defects and placed in facilities that are overcrowded and have no care, malnourished, forced to stay in a cot, oh it gets worse. Some never learn to talk as no one talks to them. Then there is a lot of child trafficking for adoptions, sex trade, to put them to work for money, or even one site suggesting for organ trafficking!

I can see why some would criticize if Maria seemed healthy and well cared for then they may think she was better off with this family than in a facility or trafficked. Thing is, we don't know if she was going to be sold by this family!

Wish I hadn't started looking it up...

If everything is fine and everybody's acting with the best of intentions and only want what is best for her, how can it be so hard to agree on a single story about who the child is, who her parents are and how she came to stay with the family?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I really hope her mother handed her over willingly.


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[SweetT]

First I want to state that I do not condone human trafficking, kidnapping or any of the above, but this taking a child because they do not look like the parents is just off to me. I feel that if this was happening in the US people would be outraged and come unglued. Not that it is not a good way to find missing children but can you imagine if your child/stepchild etc did not look like you and you were arrested, or had your kid taken from you due to it? Just saying.

 

[Cappuccino]

First I want to state that I do not condone human trafficking, kidnapping or any of the above, but this taking a child because they do not look like the parents is just off to me. I feel that if this was happening in the US people would be outraged and come unglued. Not that it is not a good way to find missing children but can you imagine if your child/stepchild etc did not look like you and you were arrested, or had your kid taken from you due to it? Just saying.

Yes I can see how there's the potential for a witch hunt here, especially as there's a pre-existing stereotype about gypsies taking children. However, in both these cases there is other evidence - its not as if the children have just been removed because they don't look like their "parents".

 

[Donjeta]

First I want to state that I do not condone human trafficking, kidnapping or any of the above, but this taking a child because they do not look like the parents is just off to me. I feel that if this was happening in the US people would be outraged and come unglued. Not that it is not a good way to find missing children but can you imagine if your child/stepchild etc did not look like you and you were arrested, or had your kid taken from you due to it? Just saying.

Most people can tell just one convincing, truthful, and verifiable story about who their child or stepchild is and in all probability there will be no problems.

 

[insatiable]

I'm having trouble believing this girl was handed over by her own parents to these people. Why hide her hair color with dye then?

 

[SweetT]

I would hope if they're are 8 or 10 possible parents that they've narrowed it down to that maybe they could show their pictures to this little girl and see if they seem familiar to her at all.