Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[Kaliste]

Is it possible to get back to the case at hand here? Catching up on today's posts have been incredibly frustrating. I don't think personal opinion on Roma communities should matter. In THIS case a couple (who cares if they are Roma or peace corp volunteers or circus clowns really?) have fake documents and a multitude of stories as to who this child is and how they acquired her. Personally I don't care who you are, if you're creating fake documents and dying a child's hair then maybe the police SHOULD look into you. Again, Roma or not. Greek authorities did the responsible thing and DID look into the story and have since charged them with kidnapping and fraud and are searching to find out who Maria is. I don't understand how anyone can consider that less than responsible.


Maria may be the victim of human trafficking.

Maria may have been kidnapped by the couple.

Maria may have been kidnapped by someone else and given to/found by the couple.

Maria may have been abandoned and the couple took her in and raised her lovingly as their own.

Maria may have been abandoned and the couple took her in and made her dance like a pet monkey for money and live in squalor.

Maria may be an undocumented love child abandoned by someone else in the community

Maria may have dropped down from a UFO. (Ok, maybe not that one!)

I don't know, You don't know and the Greek authorties don't know.

All MOO




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[gxm]

It's just as I feared it would be: Authorities are using the Greek case as an excuse to presume all Roma families guilty.

I'm not following the other cases but as best I know, three children have been investigated. DNA evidence in one case (this thread) shows the child was not related to the "parents." DNA evidence in another case, as expected, showed the child was related to the parents. In the third case, the "parents" have already admitted the child is not theirs but was "given" to them. So far that's three children, all without documentation, only one biologically related (if the "parents" of the baby boy are telling the truth and he is really not theirs). I'm not an authority but I'm pretty sure that "all Roma families" includes more than three children. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[pieper4]

http://www.today.com/video/today/53350613/#53350613 (I hadn't seen this previously) talks about Roma Dad's criminal history and other details.

 

[time]

http://www.today.com/video/today/53350613/#53350613 (I hadn't seen this previously) talks about Roma Dad's criminal history and other details.

It seems they are now saying some of the 14 children are their grandchildren?

 

[pieper4]

It seems they are now saying some of the 14 children are their grandchildren?

Might be... yes.

 

[gxm]

I thought it was pretty clear that "all Roma families, " in this context, meant "Roma families in general."

Tell me: How many NON-Roma families have had their biological children removed from them recently, before the performance of a DNA test, on the grounds that "they have the wrong colouring, so they must be stolen"?

They aren't being removed because they have the "wrong" (your word, not mine) coloring. They are being removed because they do not have legal documentation. From what I've seen of the Irish girl (her face is blurred out in pictures), she has dark or brown hair not blonde, so coloring clearly isn't the issue.

 

[time]

:modstop:

I mentioned this earlier and I guess some of you missed it.

Please discuss this CASE and not cultures. If you want to talk about the politics or cultures, etc, open a thread in the private forum.

This thread is about trying to identify a little girl.

I hope this is ok to quote.

 

[windstorm]

She has two identities and lived off thousands of euros a month in child benefits for nearly a dozen offspring that appear to exist only on paper, and but for one little girl would have continued the fraud Greek police say she perpetrated for two decades.

In this case, the woman was able to declare Maria's birth nearly four years after the fact, even though home births must be registered within 100 days. She even used her own fake ID as one of the two witnesses needed to prove the girl was born at home.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/23/us-greece-girl-idUSBRE99L0R620131023

 

[Linda7NJ]

Is that the law in Greece? That one can just hand off a child to whoever they want? No custody/adoption hearings or paperwork? I seriously doubt it. It's certainly not the case here in the U.S.

It happens all the time here too. It's not illegal. People hand off their children to friends & relatives all the time for a variety of reasons.


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[time]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/23/us-greece-girl-idUSBRE99L0R620131023

That allowed the couple to claim 2,790 euros in child benefits a month in a country dependent on EU/IMF loans and desperate to show it is making progress on tackling such fraud.

Per the article, they were collecting about 2,790 euros = $3846.02 US per month. That's $46,152 per year.

I think these people are giving the Roma's a bad name. The article also says that 10 of those children might not exist at all. Sounds right to me. I bet they have 3 of their own and then there is Maria.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Per the article, they were collecting about 2,790 euros = $3846.02 US per month. That's $46,152 per year.

I think these people are giving the Roma's a bad name. The article also says that 10 of those children might not exist at all. Sounds right to me. I bet they have 3 of their own and then there is Maria.

They were certainly living large....


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[windstorm]

Babis Dimitriou, president of the Gypsies of Northern Greece, said yesterday Maria’s natural parents offered him the child for 1,000 euros when she was 15 days old in 2009.

Mr Dimitriou, who is also based at the settlement, said: “The child was sold to its present mother... and I presume the price was similar to the relatively low price requested of me.”

He added: “They were here last week when the couple were arrested and Maria taken to a home. Since the outbreak of the commotion they vanished from here.”

Salis laid all the blame on his wife and offered to help police find the Bulgarian sellers but he was refused bail.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/greece-girl-maria-gypsy-couple-2477760

 

[time]

Per the Reuters link, I hope this all leads to something positive:

The local arm of the U.N. Children's Fund (UNICEF) says the lack of controls makes Greece fertile ground for possible trafficking.

Its head, Labros Kanellopoulos, estimates that thousands of missing children, mainly from eastern Europe, may be victims of trafficking, but there is no data on official numbers.

"There is a lack of checks, and the onus of responsibility lies with the police and local authorities, who have not shown enough interest," he said.

Police, who believe Maria is either eastern or northern European, have focused their investigation on whether she was trafficked rather than abducted, a police official said.

In Farsala, mayor Aris Karahalios says the case is a chance for Greece to finally push ahead with reforms it has promised.

"The system is anachronistic and a symptom of our entire society, which only deals with things on the surface and pushes everything else under the carpet," he said.

 

[windstorm]

Per the article, they were collecting about 2,790 euros = $3846.02 US per month. That's $46,152 per year.

I think these people are giving the Roma's a bad name. The article also says that 10 of those children might not exist at all. Sounds right to me. I bet they have 3 of their own and then there is Maria.

Agree. And, in a Roma society, I would think that would be quite a bit of money.

From what I read today, the Greek government is trying to clean up it's problem with fraud to prove to it's lenders that the country is trying to do the right thing. I have a feeling there may be more cases than this one to deal with.

 

[burbqueen]

yeah but when the parents cant keep their story straight thats when I have a problem. Yes you can hand your kid off to relatives or friends, but when it comes to registering that child for school, tax time, and having a legal right to that child you are in trouble here in the US. If its temporary o.k. I understand, but any permanent handing your child off should be legal anywhere. It opens the flood gates to pedos and child rings and abuse if you just let people raise a child that isnt theirs legally or biologically.

I was raised by my grandma and she had to go to court to get custody of me. It was for my protection. If you dont want law enforcement doing DNA tests on your child and what not then have legal documentation.

As for linda7NJ, I enjoy your posts everyday and that amount of money with that many mouths to feed is certainly poverty.

 

[time]

They were certainly living large....


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I guess you are being sarcastic.

 

[Linda7NJ]

yeah but when the parents cant keep their story straight thats when I have a problem. Yes you can hand your kid off to relatives or friends, but when it comes to registering that child for school, tax time, and having a legal right to that child you are in trouble here in the US. If its temporary o.k. I understand, but any permanent handing your child off should be legal anywhere. It opens the flood gates to pedos and child rings and abuse if you just let people raise a child that isnt theirs legally or biologically.

I was raised by my grandma and she had to go to court to get custody of me. It was for my protection. If you dont want law enforcement doing DNA tests on your child and what not then have legal documentation.

As for linda7NJ, I enjoy your posts everyday and that amount of money with that many mouths to feed is certainly poverty.

I agree lack of documentation certainly complicates things. Typically, in the cases I'm familiar with here, there is a sharing of necessary documents or an agreement as to taxes, child support, welfare, wic etc. it's common and in certain communities it's quite common not to involve CPS or the like.


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[Linda7NJ]

I guess you are being sarcastic.

Ummm yeah, it's my nature

I shoulda posted a warning sorry about that!


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[SweetT]

A few yrs ago my ex had my son on visitation in Texas, to make a long story short, he had plans of keeping him and not returning him. I was called by my son crying etc and Made aware of the situation. But afterwards I did find out that even though my ex was his bio father, he did not have legal custody of him but had already gotten the schools to accept my son and enroll him. He did not have legal paperwork to prove he had sole custody or even shared custody. In fact he showed them nothing.
This scared me, that this could happen in the US and I had thought that there were laws and protocol against this. This wasnt so long ago 2009. So I can say stuff like this can and does also happen in the US. It should concern us all. Because I also was under the impression with the schools that I've dealt with and have had to provide all legal paperwork in regard to custody and copy of BC.

 

[Linda7NJ]

They aren't being removed because they have the "wrong" (your word, not mine) coloring. They are being removed because they do not have legal documentation. From what I've seen of the Irish girl (her face is blurred out in pictures), she has dark or brown hair not blonde, so coloring clearly isn't the issue.

So they inspected all documentation for every Roma child on the compound?


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