Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #2

[jjenny]

I get that, I really do. I do hope she gets placed for legal adoption and a family that could pass US standards and provide her with a clean, caring, loving home comes forward to adopt her. The reality though, in the country she lives in, and the one she was likely born in, if she is indeed a Roma child, is that she would be deemed unadoptable by the majority of the population. If she were to be placed in an orphanage with the stigma of being an unadoptable Roma, she would be far worse off than she ever could have been otherwise. Some of he orphanages in some of the countries over there are worse than concentration camps.

Her best hope, if it turns out she is this woman's bio child, is that she not be returned to either, and would be adopted internationally. I honestly don't see that happening though. I hope I am wrong, but I can see the authorities "washing their hands" of her, and returning her to where she was. In that case, the lesser of two evils would appear to be the family she's been with for most of her life.

I really would love to see her get saved from that fate though.

Her case got so much publicity. I don't believe for a second they wouldn't be able to find someone to adopt her.

 

[mrsward]

Pack her little bag and send her to me.... i just wanna put her in some fluffy pjs and give her a cuddle

 

[raeann]

JJenny, I think the hardest thing to wrap ones brain around is perspective. What we see as child trafficking to them is cultural norm/their form of adoption. If she is Roma, then she is a part of them. At the very least, she should be adopted by another Roma family. Ideally she should be placed with the only siblings she's known in her almost five years on this planet. If authorities find their bio parents suitable to have them, I see no reason why they shouldn't have her, either. Even if the way they adopted her equals trafficking in our eyes. I can't shake my suspicions that this whole entire case is being handled differently from any other (illegally)adopted Roma child case solely because of the color of her skin.

BBM

Human Trafficking is NOT just something that is seen as unsavory in OUR culture and yet perfectly acceptable in another! Below is just one of MANY links that show that the United Nations and most countries internationally have a great concern with such behavior. Exterminating the Jewish people was a "cultural norm" for the Nazis.....the genocide in Darfur, Somalia, Sudan is a "cultural norm" within their societies. Human rights transcend individual cultures.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2013/ga11367.doc.htm

JMO of course

 

[Tugela]

What do you suggest for the multi millions of children that live like that? Take them all away from their parents? she's Roma and IMO that needs to be respected.



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Incorrect. She is a child, an individual, she doesn't belong to any community, she belongs to herself, and society as her guardian should look to her first. If her best interests are best served living somewhere else, then that is the way it should be. She could always research her cultural roots later in life if she so wishes, but no child should be condemned to abject poverty when there are other options available, simply because the sperm and egg donors who first abandoned her now want her.

Sorry. They had their chance. That is gone now.

 

[lisser]

Her case got so much publicity. I don't believe for a second they wouldn't be able to find someone to adopt her.

It's less a matter of finding someone to adopt her specifically, and more a matter as to whether or not the authorities will allow it. I have feeling that she won't be released for legal adoption.

 

[Tugela]

I keep seeing this mentioned in this thread and I feel the need to speak up.

Chances are, "that woman", has no reproductive rights. No right to say no to her partner, no access to birth control, no knowledge of natural family planning, and may even belong to a religion that doesn't allow birth control.

In most of the world, it's not so simple for women to just stop having kids.

If they can do it in rural Africa I'm pretty sure they can do it in Europe.

 

[concernedmother]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Why does the mom have reddish blonde hair in the one pic and dark in the other?
Edited--never mind. I see mom behind that dark headed person.

 

[lisser]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Why does the mom have reddish blonde hair in the one pic and dark in the other?

I understood that the mom is the dark haired/skinned woman and the blonde/red-head is one of her daughters.

 

[Tugela]

I get that, I really do. I do hope she gets placed for legal adoption and a family that could pass US standards and provide her with a clean, caring, loving home comes forward to adopt her. The reality though, in the country she lives in, and the one she was likely born in, if she is indeed a Roma child, is that she would be deemed unadoptable by the majority of the population. If she were to be placed in an orphanage with the stigma of being an unadoptable Roma, she would be far worse off than she ever could have been otherwise. Some of he orphanages in some of the countries over there are worse than concentration camps.

Except that, according to reports, many of the kids being adopted though unofficial means do have Roma mothers. That would imply that prospective parents are not too fussy about that.

Whether they are adoptable or not probably depends to a large degree on their appearance, and I think this kid will have relatively few problems in that respect.

 

[concernedmother]

I understood that the mom is the dark haired/skinned woman and the blonde/red-head is one of her daughters.

OK Thanks. She does look old. How does someone that dark have a blonde kid ?

 

[lisser]

OK Thanks. She does look old. How does someone that dark have a blonde kid ?

The bio dad is supposed to have a albino gene that has been passed on to some of the kids.

 

[greenpalm]

People in Europe adopt children of other races/ethnicity. Some even adopt African-American babies from US. I have no doubt that given a chance somebody will adopt M.

But, I actually have a problem with that. I'm sure you and I don't see this the same way, but I don't think it's right to take Maria away from the Roma camp. I think she should be left with her own people. I can't justify adopting her out.

I am very much aware that the Roma don't do things the way I do them, but I'm not so certain, as you seem to be, that I know what is best for the whole great big wide world out there.

Additionally, I know that Maria is hardly the only child in such a situation. There are hundreds of thousands of children living in Roma camps just like her. She just happens to have very unusual blond hair and blue eyes. It may indeed be some kind of albinism. It is certainly a genetic anomaly among these people.

Why should we remove her and not all of them? Or? Perhaps you believe they should all be removed? I just completely disagree. I can be comfortable living in a world where not everyone makes exactly the same choices I make. I don't presume to know best.

I would be unhappy to see Maria adopted out of her Roma heritage. I think it is narrow and presumptuous to believe she needs to be rescued from it. I think it is particularly narrow to think that she is somehow especially worthy of such a rescue. That's a really peculiar notion. I don't think she needs to be "rescued" at all.

Edited to add: I don't have a problem with out-of-race adoptions, my point is, I don't think it's necessary in this case, or rather, it may not be necessary in this case, and I don't presume to know.

 

[jjenny]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Why does the mom have reddish blonde hair in the one pic and dark in the other?
Edited--never mind. I see mom behind that dark headed person.

The one with reddish blond hair is not mom. I presume that's mom's other albino daughter. Mom is the one with dark hair.

 

[Linda7NJ]

She never lived in that biological home. The supposed bio mom claimed she gave birth to her in Greece and couldn't take her home to Bulgaria.
As to not have running water and having filthy children, it might not be abuse in Bulgaria, but here in US I wouldn't surprised if CPS came in knocking if children were living under those conditions.

Here, when they knock, they will be offering help & services.
There are services here to help poor families with those things.
Children are not removed from parents because of poverty.


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[concernedmother]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...seva-believed-Marias-mother-wants-Greece.html
The little boy does resemble Maria. I feel bad for the oldest daughter. I wonder if she realizes her picture is being shown around the world?

 

[jjenny]

The bio dad is supposed to have a albino gene that has been passed on to some of the kids.

Both of them had to have the gene to make albino children.

 

[Froglady]

I've never seen a child with hair that red it looks Dyed to me but the little ones do look like Maria so I'm guessing it will turn out To be a positive. No offence intended but I just want to wash them all :/

 

[lisser]

But, I actually have a problem with that. I'm sure you and I don't see this the same way, but I don't think it's right to take Maria away from the Roma camp. I think she should be left with her own people. I can't justify adopting her out.

I am very much aware that the Roma don't do things the way I do them, but I'm not so certain, as you seem to be, that I know what is best for the whole great big wide world out there.

Additionally, I know that Maria is hardly the only child in such a situation. There are hundreds of thousands of children living in Roma camps just like her. She just happens to have very unusual blond hair and blue eyes. It may indeed be some kind of albinism. It is certainly a genetic anomaly among these people.

Why should we remove her and not all of them? Or? Perhaps you believe they should all be removed? I just completely disagree. I can be comfortable living in a world where not everyone makes exactly the same choices I make. I don't presume to know best.

I would be unhappy to see Maria adopted out of her Roma heritage. I think it is narrow and presumptuous to believe she needs to be rescued from it. I think it is particularly narrow to think that she is somehow especially worthy of such a rescue. That's a really peculiar notion. I don't think she needs to be "rescued" at all.

I would love to be able to "save them all", but it simply isn't going to happen. There are children who live like this everywhere in the world, even in the US.

 

[concernedmother]

I would love to be able to "save them all", but it simply isn't going to happen. There are children who live like this everywhere in the world, even in the US.

Heartbreaking.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, I do, and that situation is temporary. Just as Maria is temporarily staying with a charity called "Smile of the Child" the pair of them have an attorney. I don't know a thing about Greek law, or Greek child custody, but I assume they will get a trial date, make bail, etc, pay a fine, be sentenced to community service or something? and eventually some kind of permanent arrangements will be decided upon for Maria. I assume once DNA testing is back for the other children who were living in the home (the real ones, not the paper dolls) those real children that are a DNA match to this couple will be returned to them.

In my opinion it's unnecessarily cruel and disruptive to rip Maria from the people who are effectively her parents and siblings. You don't have to agree.

Warning sarcasm

I wonder where we would put all the children here in the USA if every parent imprisoned or jailed were to have their rights terminated?



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