GZ Case - Defense Perspective

[cityslick]

ITA, Chris. Further, I believe GZ exposed or brandished his gun and grabbed hold of Trayvon in an effort to detain him and Trayvon was fighting for his very life. Perhaps he got the wounds on his hands from wrestling with the gun. But even if he pummeled GZ, he was justified as he was standing HIS ground out of fear for his life from this stranger who pursued and confronted him with a weapon.

I just have a hard time believing this scenario when men 3-4 times the size of TM will cower at the very sight of a gun when it's pointed at him. Why would GZ need to 'detain' TM once he had his gun pointed at him? At that point, for all intents and purposes, TM was detained.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...olice-station-medical-report-abc-news-reports

Also Tuesday, WFTV-Channel 9 reported that an autopsy shows Trayvon had broken skin on his knuckles.

***So, the funeral director didn't see the broken skin on the knuckles????
He said there were no injuries to TM's hands. :waitasec:

This is a great bit of info for the defense IMO.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

"This now allows the defense to show up in the courtroom, let George Zimmerman tell his story and bring in a medical expert that says, 'Black and blue under the eyes, broken nose, cut on the back of the head,'" said Ford, "and the defense can argue that's consistent with George Zimmerman being attacked by Trayvon Martin, and then the Stand Your Ground defense comes into play."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_...-shooting-likely-bolster-self-defense-claims/

 

[iluvmua]

I think this is the only case where I actually believe the defense.

I really, really hope they can win this (and it seems so far they have a very good chance of winning).

Did the funeral director by chance know Mr. Crump?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I think this is the only case where I actually believe the defense.

I really, really hope they can win this (and it seems so far they have a very good chance of winning).

Did the funeral director by chance know Mr. Crump?

I just re-read a lot of info that the funeral director said. There is NO WAY what he said on NG was the truth.


http://www.kcbd.com/story/17286084/trayvon-martins-autopsy-still-under-seal

The funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin's body for burial told a TV anchor that Martin had no injuries to his hands or arms that would indicate a fight had occurred.

"As for his hands and knuckles, I don't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Kurtz said.

 

[wowitsdark]

BBM

Why would TM think George was with a neighborhood watch program when he walks right by him and George says nothing to him but just stares at him. How creepy would that be? imo

Was GZ not in his vehicle at the time TM walked by him? I would assume that GZ had his windows rolled up since it was raining.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of 'neighborhood watching,' but I would assume they typically do not speak to or approach people they find suspicious.

Additionally, GZ was on the phone at the time TM walked by him. Were I walking around in the rain and came upon an occupied vehicle, I would not expect the occupant on the phone to hang up, roll down the window (in the rain) and ask me what I was doing.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

If there was broken skin at autopsy, there was broken skin when TM's body arrived at the funeral home.

The skin of a dead person does not heal.

JMO

 

[iluvmua]

I just re-read a lot of info that the funeral director said. There is NO WAY what he said on NG was the truth.


http://www.kcbd.com/story/17286084/trayvon-martins-autopsy-still-under-seal

The funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin's body for burial told a TV anchor that Martin had no injuries to his hands or arms that would indicate a fight had occurred.

"As for his hands and knuckles, I don't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Kurtz said.

So he pretty much lied on NG?

 

[Florida Native]

I think this is the only case where I actually believe the defense.

Thank you for saying that. Most times I'm with the prosecution team and have been doubting my ability to be objective about other cases lately. LOL.

 

[iluvmua]

So since all what is coming out supports GZ, would this still be a 2nd degree murder charge or even manslaughter?

 

[Phoenixfla]

I guess we'll have to see what evidence the prosecution has managed to dig up. It would have been nice if the police had done a thorough job from the beginning, but there you go.

The other thing to consider is this: Zimmerman pursued a fleeing kid, and in so doing he provoked whatever conflict eventually occured. If Trayvon did manage to get a few hits in of his own, good for him. In my opinion, the only tragedy there is that he didn't manage to finish the job before Zimmerman gunned him down. In my opinion.

Finish what job?

 

[Phoenixfla]

Seems to me, that TM was doing nothing but defending himself from a gun toting wanna be, who had no business being any where near TM.


JMO

Defending himself against what? Still no evidence that GZ started the physical altercation. You can't defend yourself against someone with a gun that has not done anything to you.

"Hey look, that guy over there has a gun, I think i'm going to go defend myself against him with my fists in his face."

 

[suzihawk]

So since all what is coming out supports GZ, would this still be a 2nd degree murder charge or even manslaughter?

It's a bit premature to think the charges might be dismissed, IMO. This is one piece of information surreptiously leaked to the press to support Zimmrman's cause. :moo:

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Finish what job?

I am not Chris_Texas, but from reading this:
In my opinion, the only tragedy there is that he didn't manage to finish the job before Zimmerman gunned him down. In my opinion.

I'd say it is the opinion of the poster that it is a tragedy that TM didn't kill GZ before GZ killed him.
That's just how I'm reading it.
I may be wrong.


Taking this line of thought, if TM's "job to finish" was to kill GZ, there is not doubt that this is a self defense case.
Pure and simple.

JMO

 

[Phoenixfla]

I believe that the situation escalated when GZ got out of his truck with a gun.

Following someone may not be "illegal", but if you get into a confrontation while you're doing it, well then, you might end up getting your butt kicked (unless you've got a gun :banghead: )

GZ had a gun and STILL got his butt kicked. Almost leads one to believe he may have been acting in self defense, huh?

 

[beach]

Mod request:

Hey guys, I need your help. This topic is a bit broad. Now that we have a forum instead of just general discussion threads, we need to break out into topical threads.

Though the actual docs have not yet been released, the media was leaked info regarding the forthcoming autopsy report and GZ's medical records. Please take those discussions over to the appropriate threads linked below. That way important stuff doesn't get buried.

TIA for your help! Please bump this as necessary for those who may not have seen it.



[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172289"]Trayvon's injuries, per the leaked autopsy report.[/ame]



[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7924128#post7924128"]George Zimmerman's injuries, per the leaked reports.[/ame]

 

[suzihawk]

Defending himself against what? Still no evidence that GZ started the physical altercation. You can't defend yourself against someone with a gun that has not done anything to you.

"Hey look, that guy over there has a gun, I think i'm going to go defend myself against him with my fists in his face."

If a person has a gun pointed in their direction or stuck in their chest in an effort to detain them, that person has the right to defend themselves by any means available. I think that's exactly what happened in this case. :moo:

 

[Phoenixfla]

ITA, Chris. Further, I believe GZ exposed or brandished his gun and grabbed hold of Trayvon in an effort to detain him and Trayvon was fighting for his very life. Perhaps he got the wounds on his hands from wrestling with the gun. But even if he pummeled GZ, he was justified as he was standing HIS ground out of fear for his life from this stranger who pursued and confronted him with a weapon.

Any evidence to reach that conclusion? Because if you have evidence that GZ had the gun out before the physical confrontation, I would have to reconsider my whole stance at this time.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Any evidence to reach that conclusion? Because if you have evidence that GZ had the gun out before the physical confrontation, I would have to reconsider my whole stance at this time.

I don't think we have heard anything to support that.
JMO

 

[jjenny]

We have Trayvon's g/f story, and she doesn't say anything about a gun.
According to the g/f, Trayvon was conversing with Zimmerman and there was no mention of a gun. Nothing in that story to suggest Trayvon knew Zimmerman was armed.