Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #6

[Marantz4250b]

This is it, exactly. Someone placed a bullet in that gun knowing that it wasn't a blank. And it wasn't Alec, obviously.

For a start - blanks were never intended to be inserted.

Secondly, that is a very serious allegation you are making there! Someone intentionally placed a live round in that gun? That's tantamount to an allegation of murder!

 

[Marantz4250b]

You suspect, but you obviously do not know or understand actor contracts.

I went to the top drama school *in the world* for stage/production management (which, in film & tv, is Assisting Directing). I graduated with my Master of Fine Arts. It’s a terminal degree (ie, highest available in the field) from an Ivy League institution. I walked with doctoral robes to signify the level of expertise and training provided to me. I have extensive training not only in fight choreography and firearm safety for theatre, film & tv, but also in reading and interpreting actor contracts. I now also teach at a different Ivy League institution.

Alec may hold some responsibility as a producer when it all shakes out, but not as the actor handling the weapon.

Did they teach you the law relating to this, though?

Alec Baldwin shot someone to death and seriously injured another. He used a firearm which he apparently did not check himself as to its safety.

Sorry, you pick up a gun then it's your responsibility. If your industry totally abrogates responsibility from the person handling the gun then it needs to change and, I suspect, is very out of touch with the law.

Besides, it clearly doesn't work like that as people like George Clooney and Jeffrey Wright - among others - have put on record.

 

[zucchinibread]

For a start - blanks were never intended to be inserted.

Secondly, that is a very serious allegation you are making there! Someone intentionally placed a live round in that gun? That's tantamount to an allegation of murder!

It was supposed to be a blank round. This film only had a permit for blanks and squib hits. The AD yelled that it was a cold gun when it was handed to Alec. A live round was never intended to be used on this film set at all.

 

[zucchinibread]

Did they teach you the law relating to this, though?

Alec Baldwin shot someone to death and seriously injured another. He used a firearm which he apparently did not check himself as to its safety.

Sorry, you pick up a gun then it's your responsibility. If your industry totally abrogates responsibility from the person handling the gun then it needs to change and, I suspect, is very out of touch with the law.

Besides, it clearly doesn't work like that as people like George Clooney and Jeffrey Wright - among others - have put on record.

Of course I understand the law relating to this. Yes, Alec Baldwin fired a live round from a gun. But when he was handed that gun, he was told that it was cold.

Do you REALLY think Alec Baldwin should have taken the bullet out of the gun to confirm with someone that it was really a dummy round? Your opinion makes NO sense.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I feel like people who are saying 'you must always check your gun' and 'never point a weapon towards someone' etc are speaking about protocols for handling live guns in real life.

Say for example on a hunting trip, or in a shooting range, or if holding a gun for self protection, or a police officer/ military person.

Well, call me British and naive, LOL, but surely these very serious life saving techniques are not usually needed by actors using dummy props. They drive dummy cars, do they have to get the brake cables checked and remember to do mirror, signal, manouevre, etc... not really. They live in a cozy fantasy world where every aspect of everything from their hair to their shoes and every single item surrounding them is curated by someone who isn't them. All they gotta do is turn up on the correct time / day and say their lines convincingly.

AB is older. He's been around a long time. If some kid did this, everyone would be screaming oh my god he doesn't know protocols. One can hardly accuse AB of the same. My only 'scream' is who brought live rounds that would even fit / work in a vintage gun on set and then put them in the actual gun...? not AB one would warrant. This is like an Agatha Christie murder mystery really.


JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

For a start - blanks were never intended to be inserted.

Secondly, that is a very serious allegation you are making there! Someone intentionally placed a live round in that gun? That's tantamount to an allegation of murder!

Maybe it IS a murder!?

 

[Marantz4250b]

I wasn't joking but sincere. I live in the UK, we don't 'do' guns over here, period. Except far out criminals and military police / SWAT etc.

So, anything to do with guns I find shocking as heck -but- seems to me if I were an actor and someone said here's your stage prop real-fake gun so your script says fire it towards the camera, well the LAST think I'd think is that hmmm but WHAT IF some lunatic on this set has put a *real* bullet in it?

I think one would have to have quite a paranoid and suspicious personality to think like that and then everything would be a potential death trap (which a lot of things are - collapsing rigging kills people, electrics kill people, malfunctioning equipment or vehicles kill people).

If I were AB I'd be wondering if someone didn't set me up for this awful event. Esp since he's part of the anti gun lobby from what I understand. If I were him I'd be tearing my hair out and hiring my own detectives and maybe he is.

JMO MOO

Well, as I think you'll know from my posts on the Lucy Letby threads, I'm in the UK and we most certainly do "do" firearms here!

I've been a firearms dealer for over a decade and have owned firearms for a least 35 years. As mentioned further up this thread, our instructors teach ten year-olds firearms safety and the responsibilities which go with their use.

If a ten year-old can understand this stuff and manage not to shoot people then so can Alec Baldwin.

 

[al66pine]

PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENT.* New Mex. v Baldwin
Excerpt re Firearms Safety Training

Alec Baldwin skipped firearm safety sessions on set of Rust, prosecutors claim

“Baldwin’s deviation from known standards, practices and protocol directly caused the fatal death of Hutchins,” says the DA special investigator in a court filing

www.independent.co.uk

snipped ^ @Marantz4250b
Thank you SOOO much for link to the independent.co.uk ** article w pdf of Probable Cause Statement.

Page 3 starts w this:
"FIREARM, AMMUNITION AND BALDWIN AS ACTOR and SHOOTER "Statements and evidence show BALDWIN was not present for required firearms training prior to the commencement of filming. Statements, depositions from OSHA, and evidence show BALDWIN was provided only minimal training on firearms, even after REED requested more training for BALDWIN. In the deposition taken from REED, she stated BALDWIN had very limited training on the crossdraw that was required for the scene on the 21st and limited training in firearms and how to check his own firearm as to whether it was unloaded or loaded, in which REED felt it was very important in his role as RUST. A training session for at least an hour or more in length was scheduled, but the actual training consisted of only approximately 30 minutes as according to REED, BALDWIN was distracted and talking on his cell phone to his family during the training."

Subsequent pages have more on AB & firearm safety lessons, but I just started reading.

_________________________________________
* https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...tate-v-alexander-rae-baldwin-iii_redacted.pdf
**

Alec Baldwin skipped firearm safety sessions on set of Rust, prosecutors claim

“Baldwin’s deviation from known standards, practices and protocol directly caused the fatal death of Hutchins,” says the DA special investigator in a court filing

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

I feel like people who are saying 'you must always check your gun' and 'never point a weapon towards someone' etc are speaking about protocols for handling live guns in real life.

Say for example on a hunting trip, or in a shooting range, or if holding a gun for self protection, or a police officer/ military person.

Well, call me British and naive, LOL, but surely these very serious life saving techniques are not usually needed by actors using dummy props. They drive dummy cars, do they have to get the brake cables checked and remember to do mirror, signal, manouevre, etc... not really. They live in a cozy fantasy world where every aspect of everything from their hair to their shoes and every single item surrounding them is curated by someone who isn't them. All they gotta do is turn up on the correct time / day and say their lines convincingly.

AB is older. He's been around a long time. If some kid did this, everyone would be screaming oh my god he doesn't know protocols. One can hardly accuse AB of the same. My only 'scream' is who brought live rounds that would even fit / work in a vintage gun on set and then put them in the actual gun...? not AB one would warrant. This is like an Agatha Christie murder mystery really.


JMO MOO

This IS REAL LIFE!!!

Using a gun on a movie set is still using a gun in real life. The safety rules all still apply.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It was supposed to be a blank round. This film only had a permit for blanks and squib hits. The AD yelled that it was a cold gun when it was handed to Alec. A live round was never intended to be used on this film set at all.

Why would you load blanks into a gun to rehearse a scene?

Alec Baldwin was rehearsing a scene for the Western movie "Rust" on the film's set in New Mexico in October 2021 when a gun he was holding discharged. It was not supposed to be loaded with live ammo — but a bullet fired. Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed and director Joel Souza was injured.

Alec Baldwin "Rust" shooting: A timeline of events in Halyna Hutchins' death

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed during rehearsals when a bullet was discharged from a gun Alec Baldwin was holding,

www.cbsnews.com

 

[zucchinibread]

PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENT.* New Mex. v Baldwin
Excerpt re Firearms Safety Training

snipped ^ @Marantz4250b
Thank you SOOO much for link to the independent.co.uk ** article w pdf of Probable Cause Statement.

Page 3 starts w this:
"FIREARM, AMMUNITION AND BALDWIN AS ACTOR and SHOOTER "Statements and evidence show BALDWIN was not present for required firearms training prior to the commencement of filming. Statements, depositions from OSHA, and evidence show BALDWIN was provided only minimal training on firearms, even after REED requested more training for BALDWIN. In the deposition taken from REED, she stated BALDWIN had very limited training on the crossdraw that was required for the scene on the 21st and limited training in firearms and how to check his own firearm as to whether it was unloaded or loaded, in which REED felt it was very important in his role as RUST. A training session for at least an hour or more in length was scheduled, but the actual training consisted of only approximately 30 minutes as according to REED, BALDWIN was distracted and talking on his cell phone to his family during the training."

Subsequent pages have more on AB & firearm safety lessons, but I just started reading.

_________________________________________
* https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...tate-v-alexander-rae-baldwin-iii_redacted.pdf
**

Alec Baldwin skipped firearm safety sessions on set of Rust, prosecutors claim

“Baldwin’s deviation from known standards, practices and protocol directly caused the fatal death of Hutchins,” says the DA special investigator in a court filing

www.independent.co.uk

This still does not make Alec Baldwin the responsible party here.

 

[zucchinibread]

Why would you load blanks into a gun to rehearse a scene?

Alec Baldwin "Rust" shooting: A timeline of events in Halyna Hutchins' death

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed during rehearsals when a bullet was discharged from a gun Alec Baldwin was holding,

www.cbsnews.com

Because rehearsal is practice for the event. Of course a rehearsal would include gunfire if the scene included gunfire.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I feel like people who are saying 'you must always check your gun' and 'never point a weapon towards someone' etc are speaking about protocols for handling live guns in real life.

Say for example on a hunting trip, or in a shooting range, or if holding a gun for self protection, or a police officer/ military person.

Well, call me British and naive, LOL, but surely these very serious life saving techniques are not usually needed by actors using dummy props. They drive dummy cars, do they have to get the brake cables checked and remember to do mirror, signal, manouevre, etc... not really. They live in a cozy fantasy world where every aspect of everything from their hair to their shoes and every single item surrounding them is curated by someone who isn't them. All they gotta do is turn up on the correct time / day and say their lines convincingly.

AB is older. He's been around a long time. If some kid did this, everyone would be screaming oh my god he doesn't know protocols. One can hardly accuse AB of the same. My only 'scream' is who brought live rounds that would even fit / work in a vintage gun on set and then put them in the actual gun...? not AB one would warrant. This is like an Agatha Christie murder mystery really.


JMO MOO

It was a real gun with a live round in it and someone was killed and another wounded.

Sounds like deadly a real life event to me. JMO.

 

[zucchinibread]

It was a real gun with a live round in it and someone was killed and another wounded.

Sounds like deadly a real life event to me. JMO.

It became a deadly real life event because of an incompetent armorer.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Because rehearsal is practice for the event. Of course a rehearsal would include gunfire if the scene included gunfire.

Did this rehearsal scene include AB firing blanks? If so would it mean he lied when he said he never pulled the trigger? You have to pull the trigger to make a blank fire. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It became a deadly real life event because of an incompetent armorer.

True. And easily preventable if AB had checked the gun before using it. JMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Maybe it IS a murder!?

Possibly but I'd doubt it, quite honestly. Although I'm very curious as to where those rounds came from!

They probably didn't come from the supplier of the dummy rounds. There probably wasn't any "down-time" target shooting which may have seen some rounds go astray.

So where did they actually come from?

Given that some were found in gun belts I'd suspect that they may have been in them for a long time and well before Rust started production. JMO.

This, in the great scheme of things however, isn't the most relevant point as to AB's culpability. He didn't check the gun and didn't satisfy himself that it was safe for him to do what he was doing. The whole point of checking guns is because there MIGHT be live rounds present.

He didn't. He shot someone. It's on him. Maybe on others too but he's the one who pulled the trigger (as we've basically all concluded).

 

[zucchinibread]

Did this rehearsal scene include AB firing blanks? If so would mean he lied when he said he never pulled the trigger? You have to pull the trigger to make a blank fire. JMO.

Do any of us really know what happened here? Obviously not. But he would also not be the first person on this set to report a weapon firing without pulling the trigger.

 

[zucchinibread]

True. And easily preventable if AB had checked the gun before using it. JMO.

How would you expect Alec Baldwin, an actor, to check the round within the barrel and decipher whether or not it was a live round or a blank? Especially when there is an "expert" on set whose ONLY responsibility is to make sure this doesn't happen?

 

[al66pine]

More re Baldwin & Firearm Safety Training (Lack of) on Rust Set
from the Probable Cause Statement.
Adding to my post made about 15 min ago.

From last paragraph on page 4:
"Evidence shows BALDWIN failed to appear for mandatory firearms training and firearms safety training prior to filming."