Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #6

[Marantz4250b]

It was supposed to be a blank round. This film only had a permit for blanks and squib hits. The AD yelled that it was a cold gun when it was handed to Alec. A live round was never intended to be used on this film set at all.

No it wasn't. It was supposed to be a dummy round!

 

[zucchinibread]

If anyone is ACTUALLY interested in having a conversation about how legal culpability works in the entertainment industry, message me! Checking out of this thread for my sanity.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Of course I understand the law relating to this. Yes, Alec Baldwin fired a live round from a gun. But when he was handed that gun, he was told that it was cold.

Do you REALLY think Alec Baldwin should have taken the bullet out of the gun to confirm with someone that it was really a dummy round? Your opinion makes NO sense.

Yes.

He did not know what was in the gun. It was his responsibility. That's the burden you shoulder when you handle firearms. Don't want it - don't use guns.

 

[zucchinibread]

Yes.

He did not know what was in the gun. It was his responsibility. That's the burden you shoulder when you handle firearms. Don't want it - don't use guns.

Good thing you don't work in film and television, dear god.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Do any of us really know what happened here? Obviously not. But he would also not be the first person on this set to report a weapon firing without pulling the trigger.

A jury who wasn't present will probably decide what likely happened. JMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

This still does not make Alec Baldwin the responsible party here.

Yes it does. Sorry, but it just does.

If you're handling a firearm when it goes off and someone gets shot then it's on you.

The sad thing for him is that if he'd actually followed the industry standard and had had Hanna Reed check it and load the dummies in front of him and she'd said "see these are dummies for x, y, z reason" and he'd said, yep cool. Then he would have gone a very long way to discharge his responsibilities because he'd been personally advised by the accredited expert and he'd done a physical check, even if it was a mistaken one.

He didn't do any of that, however, and even skipped the safety training.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Do any of us really know what happened here? Obviously not. But he would also not be the first person on this set to report a weapon firing without pulling the trigger.

Yet you have stated several times that Hanna Reed is 100% to blame.

Where are those other reports of weapons firing with no pressure on the trigger?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

How would you expect Alec Baldwin, an actor, to check the round within the barrel and decipher whether or not it was a live round or a blank? Especially when there is an "expert" on set whose ONLY responsibility is to make sure this doesn't happen?

First thing the rounds in this type of gun don't fit within the barrel but rather in a cylinder.

Easy to check the rounds to see if they are blanks or live. You take them out and look at them. It's not hard at all. JMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

How would you expect Alec Baldwin, an actor, to check the round within the barrel and decipher whether or not it was a live round or a blank? Especially when there is an "expert" on set whose ONLY responsibility is to make sure this doesn't happen?

You've made a big play of telling us about your qualifications as to firearms use on movies yet you're saying that an actor can't be trained to spot the difference between the two?

And "barrel?". Ammunition doesn't go into the "barrel" of a revolver. You know that, right?

 

[Marantz4250b]

If anyone is ACTUALLY interested in having a conversation about how legal culpability works in the entertainment industry, message me! Checking out of this thread for my sanity.

It works exactly the same as in any other industry.

You can't abrogate your duty of care just because you're an actor.

 

[zucchinibread]

You've made a big play of telling us about your qualifications as to firearms use on movies yet you're saying that an actor can't be trained to spot the difference between the two?

And "barrel?". Ammunition doesn't go into the "barrel" of a revolver. You know that, right?

I don't know what kind of guns were used on this set because I don't need to know that to know that Alec Baldwin is not responsible, which is the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Good thing you don't work in film and television, dear god.

If it were me handing that gun that day then two people wouldn't have been shot and one would still be alive!

 

[Forest_Wood]

I think one thing we're forgetting at the end of the day is that this gun was loaded with a real bullet... Why? Why was a real bullet anywhere near this film set? Who put it there? It wasn't Alec Baldwin because it was not his responsibility to load the weapon. It was obviously Hannah. Where did she get this bullet?

That's it exactly! Where did those live rounds come from and why were live rounds loaded into a gun that most people likely knew AB would not be checking because they'd be familiar with his past habits on set. Just days before, many workers walked off due to having issues with the production. Disgruntled people do disgruntled things sometimes. The root of the matter needs an explanation, not just the outcome. It's like putting a bandage on a cut without considering what caused the cut. MOO.

 

[housewife]

...evidence show BALDWIN was provided only minimal training on firearms, even after REED requested more training for BALDWIN. In the deposition taken from REED, she stated BALDWIN had very limited training on the crossdraw that was required for the scene on the 21st and limited training in firearms and how to check his own firearm as to whether it was unloaded or loaded, in which REED felt it was very important in his role as RUST. A training session for at least an hour or more in length was scheduled, but the actual training consisted of only approximately 30 minutes as according to REED, BALDWIN was distracted and talking on his cell phone to his family during the training."

So the armorer acknowledged the actor needed training for 1+ hours, but then only trained him for about 30 minutes? And she acknowledged that the actor was distracted during the too-brief training?
And then she still allowed him use of firearms to film the scene???

If the armorer feels that an actor is not adequately trained, they can restrict prop usage from that person. At least that is how it worked in my day. The armorer on this set was dismal.

 

[zucchinibread]

So the armorer acknowledged the actor needed training for 1+ hours, but then only trained him for about 30 minutes? And she acknowledged that the actor was distracted during the too-brief training?
And then she still allowed him use of firearms to film the scene???

If the armorer feels that an actor is not adequately trained, they can restrict prop usage from that person. At least that is how it worked in my day. The armorer on this set was dismal.

That's definitely still how it works!!

 

[mickey2942]

In the end, is it HG's fault or AB's fault? Both? One or the other? Or neither one?

I am more inclined to state HG's fault, she didn't verify that the gun was safe, and hadn't there been some previous incidents of guns firing randomly on the set?

AB's responsibly is that due to not hiring a full time armorer he indirectly contributed to an unsafe environment. He had also not attended gun safety classes, nor followed protocol.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

This IS REAL LIFE!!!

Using a gun on a movie set is still using a gun in real life. The safety rules all still apply.

Not really... it's a movie set with blanks.

 

[10ofRods]

That's definitely still how it works!!

The texts she sent (and that the propmistress sent) show that they were kept from doing their job by higher ups. That's the reason most of the camera crew walked off that day. It's in the long police document.

At least, that's what the two women were complaining/texting about. Hannah was hired as a full time armorer, then reduced to half time. Payroll records support that as well. Whose actual decision it was isn't clear, but the person processing that payroll change was yet another crew member (whose name is in the police documents). As with many independent films, it's not clear from payroll documents who was actually in charge or "managing" the situation.

George Clooney agrees with you, FWIW:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/entertainment/george-clooney-rust-shooting/index.html

IMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENT.* New Mex. v Baldwin
Excerpt re Firearms Safety Training

snipped ^ @Marantz4250b
Thank you SOOO much for link to the independent.co.uk ** article w pdf of Probable Cause Statement.

Page 3 starts w this:
"FIREARM, AMMUNITION AND BALDWIN AS ACTOR and SHOOTER "Statements and evidence show BALDWIN was not present for required firearms training prior to the commencement of filming. Statements, depositions from OSHA, and evidence show BALDWIN was provided only minimal training on firearms, even after REED requested more training for BALDWIN. In the deposition taken from REED, she stated BALDWIN had very limited training on the crossdraw that was required for the scene on the 21st and limited training in firearms and how to check his own firearm as to whether it was unloaded or loaded, in which REED felt it was very important in his role as RUST. A training session for at least an hour or more in length was scheduled, but the actual training consisted of only approximately 30 minutes as according to REED, BALDWIN was distracted and talking on his cell phone to his family during the training."

Subsequent pages have more on AB & firearm safety lessons, but I just started reading.

_________________________________________
* https://s3.documentcloud.org/docume...tate-v-alexander-rae-baldwin-iii_redacted.pdf
**

Alec Baldwin skipped firearm safety sessions on set of Rust, prosecutors claim

“Baldwin’s deviation from known standards, practices and protocol directly caused the fatal death of Hutchins,” says the DA special investigator in a court filing

www.independent.co.uk

*If* it's true that HGR had zero certification and training in her chosen field anyhow then probably not so much validity in attending her lecture.

Would it have made any difference? How would someone like AB determine the difference between a dummy round and a live one and why would he check the checker's work?

 

[zucchinibread]

The texts she sent (and that the propmistress sent) show that they were kept from doing their job by higher ups. That's the reason most of the camera crew walked off that day. It's in the long police document.

At least, that's what the two women were complaining/texting about. Hannah was hired as a full time armorer, then reduced to half time. Payroll records support that as well. Whose actual decision it was isn't clear, but the person processing that payroll change was yet another crew member (whose name is in the police documents). As with many independent films, it's not clear from payroll documents who was actually in charge or "managing" the situation.

George Clooney agrees with you, FWIW:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/entertainment/george-clooney-rust-shooting/index.html

IMO.

Thank you.

Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of accidents happen in the arts and it is almost never the fault of those who are directly involved in the accident... Hannah was an incompetent armorer, but who hired her for a such a gun-heavy set? Why was her payroll cut?

The fault lies somewhere between Hannah, the props supervisor, and their hiring managers.