Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #7

[Marantz4250b]

The things that I find puzzling as to HGR potentially introducing these rounds to the set are these:

• There were only seven live rounds found at the set - this includes the round which was discharged; why that few? If it was bought ammo (unlikely, imv) it would have been retailed in boxes of fifty or maybe twenty. If they were reloads then Star-Line brass comes in bags of fifty or one hundred. Where were the rest?
• How did they become so dispersed? There was one live round in the gun (the one discharged), one in AB's gunbelt and at least one other in a gunbelt worn by another actor. Others were found in ammo boxes or lying loose, I believe. If HGR had introduced them then how did they become so dispersed?
  
  My personal feeling is that if they had been introduced to the pool of dummies recently then they would be more likely to be found grouped together for the most part. For instance, I'd expect to see maybe two or three of them in the gun or in a particular gunbelt. The fact that they were pretty well dispersed tends to suggest that they'd been mingling in this pool of otherwise dummy ammo for some time.

My personal thoughts are that these rounds may indeed have been introduced to the set by HGR but perhaps not knowingly. It seems that they may have been in this lot of ammo long before she even got hold of it from PDQ and maybe they didn't even know they were there.

If true, of course, then it doesn't absolve her of responsibility because she apparently loaded the ammo into the gun and either didn't check it or mistakenly thought she heard it rattle when she shook it. And that is precisely the reason that things should be checked - by everyone handing the firearm. Live ammo always has a possibility to show up where you never expect it to!

 

[Slick762]

The things that I find puzzling as to HGR potentially introducing these rounds to the set are these:

• There were only seven live rounds found at the set - this includes the round which was discharged; why that few? If it was bought ammo (unlikely, imv) it would have been retailed in boxes of fifty or maybe twenty. If they were reloads then Star-Line brass comes in bags of fifty or one hundred. Where were the rest?
• How did they become so dispersed? There was one live round in the gun (the one discharged), one in AB's gunbelt and at least one other in a gunbelt worn by another actor. Others were found in ammo boxes or lying loose, I believe. If HGR had introduced them then how did they become so dispersed?
  
  My personal feeling is that if they had been introduced to the pool of dummies recently then they would be more likely to be found grouped together for the most part. For instance, I'd expect to see maybe two or three of them in the gun or in a particular gunbelt. The fact that they were pretty well dispersed tends to suggest that they'd been mingling in this pool of otherwise dummy ammo for some time.

My personal thoughts are that these rounds may indeed have been introduced to the set by HGR but perhaps not knowingly. It seems that they may have been in this lot of ammo long before she even got hold of it from PDQ and maybe they didn't even know they were there.

If true, of course, then it doesn't absolve her of responsibility because she apparently loaded the ammo into the gun and either didn't check it or mistakenly thought she heard it rattle when she shook it. And that is precisely the reason that things should be checked - by everyone handing the firearm. Live ammo always has a possibility to show up where you never expect it to!

My theory is that at some point before Rust, some leftover live rounds got mixed with dummies and loaded into that box. Dummies aren't used for one movie then thrown out. They get collected back up and reboxed untilt he next movie. I think the box came from Thell Reed, either directly, shipped from Thell through PDQ, or HGR helped herself to some of Thell's supplies.
OR, HGR had some leftover live rounds in her pocket or fanny pack and forgot and when she got to work, she grabbed a handful of dummies, threw them in and mixed them up. Then started filling up gun belts, where some of the live rounds were found, and put the rest back inthe box, and the remaining live rounds went in also. I've seen that happen at Army training events. Guy has a round or 2 left over in his pack or ammo pouch and forgets about it, (which they're not supposed to do but it happens when Soldiers try to skim an extra round or 2 from a zero range to use for a qual range) goes on a training exercise a few months later using blanks and at some point accidently loads a live round into a mag of blanks. It's a not uncommon occurrence. Happens a few times a year at JRTC and NTC. Usually caught by safety measures but Soldiers have gotten shot by live rounds during blank fire exercises.

Only reason I don't think it came from PDQs stock is because his operation was so sloppy and chaotic I don't think he could have, if he wanted to, have found any matching leftover live rounds and gotten rid of them while leaving non matching live rounds in his shop. And PDQ presumably didn't know what kind of powder was inside the live rounds found on set. It's possible it was deliberate sabotage, maybe by the prop gal, but I really doubt it. And if HGR had done her job, they would have been noticed.

 

[Betty P]

OR, HGR had some leftover live rounds in her pocket or fanny pack and forgot and when she got to work, she grabbed a handful of dummies, threw them in and mixed them up. Then started filling up gun belts, where some of the live rounds were found, and put the rest back inthe box, and the remaining live rounds went in also.

This has been my guess on how it happened. Carelessness resulting from a habit of routinely carrying around live ammunition. JMO, she likes to shoot and play with guns and live ammo all the time. She probably doesn't care if she's posing for a photo with a loaded gun, maybe even thinks its cool.

 

[Cool Cats]

Rust shooting case: Alec Baldwin accused of leaking footage to influence the press and grand jury

WION (World Is One News) brings latest & breaking news from South Asia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka and rest of the World in politics, business, economy, sports, lifestyle, science & technology with opinions & analysis.

www.wionews.com

Rust' prosecutors accuse Alec Baldwin of leaking film footage to press in attempt to sway grand jury​

According to court documents, a video was made available to NBC News a night before the grand jury was set to convene.

"Counsel for the state is concerned that any recordings of hearings related to the grand jury proceedings will be used to continue to taint the grand jury process by the target and/or his counsel."

In the video footage, Baldwin could be heard saying, "Now, wait a second. I'm going to shoot right? Do you mind going to the other side of the camera? I don't want to shoot toward you."

At another point, Baldwin appeared concerned for the safety of whoever is behind the camera, saying, "I don't know why you're going up hills and all this other — you're going to break your f---ing neck."

 

[ch_13]

Only reason I don't think it came from PDQs stock is because his operation was so sloppy and chaotic I don't think he could have, if he wanted to, have found any matching leftover live rounds and gotten rid of them while leaving non matching live rounds in his shop. And PDQ presumably didn't know what kind of powder was inside the live rounds found on set. It's possible it was deliberate sabotage, maybe by the prop gal, but I really doubt it. And if HGR had done her job, they would have been noticed.

You've jogged my memory.

HGR previously filed a civil suit against PDQ, alleging the live ammo came from him: https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Gutierrez-Reed-Complaint_Redacted-2_Redacted-USE.pdf

One of her claims was that after Thell and Seth had done some training together on a shooting range (not on a set), Seth had taken some of Thell's ammo.

10. Following that training, Seth took the ammo can and its contents with him in his van. Thell estimated that the ammo can contained 200-300 live .45 Colt rounds, which included Starline Brass reloaded “live” rounds.

Post-shooting, Thell went to retrieve the ammo can from Seth but didn't get it back:

109. When Thell got to Albuquerque, he proceeded to Seth’s house/PDQ Arm & Prop location. Unlike every other time Thell had come, Seth did not invite him into his house/PDQ Arm & Prop location. When Thell asked for his ammo can back, Seth said for him just to “write it off” and that he would use the rounds on other sets. Thell agreed and Seth maintained possession of the ammo can and rounds.

110. Upon execution of a search warrant on PDQ Arm & Prop about 4 weeks later, authorities found the ammo can belonging to Thell, but it was empty of the live rounds.

Of course, I have no idea of the truth of any of these allegations. (The lawsuit was later dropped.) But it does seem possible that the leftover ammo from that training session was the original source either via Seth Kenney or Thell Reed (or perhaps HGR helped herself to some of the rounds).

It's a shame the police didn't put in some extra effort to trace the source of the ammo. If it's true that they waited a month to search PDQ, then that suggests a certain lackadaisicalness in their investigation.

 

[Betty P]

You've jogged my memory.

HGR previously filed a civil suit against PDQ, alleging the live ammo came from him: https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Gutierrez-Reed-Complaint_Redacted-2_Redacted-USE.pdf

One of her claims was that after Thell and Seth had done some training together on a shooting range (not on a set), Seth had taken some of Thell's ammo.

10. Following that training, Seth took the ammo can and its contents with him in his van. Thell
estimated that the ammo can contained 200-300 live .45 Colt rounds, which included
Starline Brass reloaded “live” rounds.

Post-shooting, Thell went to retrieve the ammo can from Seth but didn't get it back:

109. When Thell got to Albuquerque, he proceeded to Seth’s house/PDQ Arm & Prop location. Unlike every other time Thell had come, Seth did not invite him into his house/PDQ Arm & Prop location. When Thell asked for his ammo can back, Seth said for him just to “write it off” and that he would use the rounds on other sets. Thell agreed and Seth maintained possession of the ammo can and rounds.

110. Upon execution of a search warrant on PDQ Arm & Prop about 4 weeks later, authorities found the ammo can belonging to Thell, but it was empty of the live rounds.

Of course, I have no idea of the truth of any of these allegations. (The lawsuit was later dropped.) But it does seem possible that the leftover ammo from that training session was the original source either via Seth Kenney or Thell Reed (or perhaps HGR helped herself to some of the rounds).

It's a shame the police didn't put in some extra effort to trace the source of the ammo. If it's true that they waited a month to search PDQ, then that suggests a certain lackadaisicalness in their investigation.

In the beginning, they only appeared focused on arresting AB and other Hollywood people. At first, they weren't even interested in pursuing charges against HGR. I think that limited the focus of their investigation and evidence-gathering.

 

[Slick762]

You've jogged my memory.

HGR previously filed a civil suit against PDQ, alleging the live ammo came from him: https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Gutierrez-Reed-Complaint_Redacted-2_Redacted-USE.pdf

One of her claims was that after Thell and Seth had done some training together on a shooting range (not on a set), Seth had taken some of Thell's ammo.

10. Following that training, Seth took the ammo can and its contents with him in his van. Thell
estimated that the ammo can contained 200-300 live .45 Colt rounds, which included
Starline Brass reloaded “live” rounds.

Post-shooting, Thell went to retrieve the ammo can from Seth but didn't get it back:

109. When Thell got to Albuquerque, he proceeded to Seth’s house/PDQ Arm & Prop location. Unlike every other time Thell had come, Seth did not invite him into his house/PDQ Arm & Prop location. When Thell asked for his ammo can back, Seth said for him just to “write it off” and that he would use the rounds on other sets. Thell agreed and Seth maintained possession of the ammo can and rounds.

110. Upon execution of a search warrant on PDQ Arm & Prop about 4 weeks later, authorities found the ammo can belonging to Thell, but it was empty of the live rounds.

Of course, I have no idea of the truth of any of these allegations. (The lawsuit was later dropped.) But it does seem possible that the leftover ammo from that training session was the original source either via Seth Kenney or Thell Reed (or perhaps HGR helped herself to some of the rounds).

It's a shame the police didn't put in some extra effort to trace the source of the ammo. If it's true that they waited a month to search PDQ, then that suggests a certain lackadaisicalness in their investigation.

On the flip side of that, the only evidence they had to go on was HGR and Thell blaming Seth and PDQ nonstop. They came across as scummy as hell in those police interview videos and I don't believe the "Where did this box come from?" story HGR told the cops about the mystery box where she claims she just found the box of ammo just sitting there and asked who brought it and nobody knew. The cops didn't find anything linking PDQ to the live rounds on set. HRG and the prop gal had a feud going on which spilled over to Thell and Seth which turned into Thell blaming Seth and accusing him of deliberate sabotage. Which, IMO, is a scummy way to dodge responsibility for pulling strings to get your unqualified stepdaughter hired into an armorer job where she got someone killed. IMO, there's more blood on Thells hands then Baldwins.
I just don't buy the 'rounds brought on set on purpose to sabotage HGR' theory. I've seen some pretty bad mean girls behavior in the workplace. But, given how screwed up everything else was, accidental mixing of rounds by HGR or Thell seems much more likely. And it doesn't really matter in the end because had HGR done the one thing she was hired to do, nobody would have gotten killed.

 

[Forest_Wood]

The inertia puller is interesting, and I have my opinions on why she bought it, but I don't think it really affected the case. Not when they have HGR on video saying that she didn't know where the box of rounds came from, and she didn't check them before loading the gun.

That's true. The result of this case wasn't affected by the inertia puller, or where the live bullets came from, because there was plenty of evidence otherwise for the jury to find her guilty due to her incompetence on the set imo.

 

[Slick762]

Absolutely no chance. Hell will freeze over first.

Can you imagine compulsory drug tests on movie sets? No film would ever get finished because most of the actors, crew and producers would have to be fired!

Slightly humorous sidetrack. It was known that in the 80s, movies had a actual drug budget. Dennis Quaid, who was well known for his coke use, did an interview and was asked which movie he had been in had the largest coke budget.

Jaws 3

 

[Slick762]

I'm sure it was. It's something often seen in trials.

It was mentioned in a couple of youtube lawyer videos about this. One lawyer said he kept a button up shirt and tie in his briefcase for his clients to use because some of them would show up for trial in very casual clothing.

 

[Mony Mony]

That's true. The result of this case wasn't affected by the inertia puller, or where the live bullets came from, because there was plenty of evidence otherwise for the jury to find her guilty due to her incompetence on the set imo.

The inertia puller sealed the deal for me. She was very careless/ cavalier, etc about her job responsibilities which created an environment where live rounds could easily escape detection. Now add an inertia puller to the scene which can manipulate rounds……guilty. MOO

 

[arielilane]

@cathyrusson

- #RUST - Judge denied defense motion for new trial today. Also denied motion to release #hannahgutierrez prior to sentencing.



12:44 PM · Mar 29, 2024

 

[arielilane]

Reminder: Sentencing Hearing
April 15, 2024 @10:00 am MT
(length of hearing 2 hours)

 

[Weki]

I don’t know why but I love this judge! Lol. She never fails to raise that ‘there was a death in this case.’ Her facial expression is either no nonsense or utterly unimpressed. But she’s not one I’d mess with. I’d really like to know if she’s tough on sentencing. I have a feeling she will show no mercy but sometimes judges with a similar demeanor can surprise you by being lenient.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I don’t know why but I love this judge! Lol. She never fails to raise that ‘there was a death in this case.’ Her facial expression is either no nonsense or utterly unimpressed. But she’s not one I’d mess with. I’d really like to know if she’s tough on sentencing. I have a feeling she will show no mercy but sometimes judges with a similar demeanor can surprise you by being lenient.

JMO

This indicates to me that the judge will give a higher end sentence....

A Santa Fe judge denied a defense request for release on Friday, and refused to order a new trial in the case.

“Keep in mind there was a death that the jury determined was caused by her,” said Judge Mary Marlowe Sommer. “So I am not releasing her.”

'Rust' armorer to stay in jail, judge refuses request for new trial in fatal shooting of film's cinematographer

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is scheduled to be sentenced on April 15, and faces up to 18 months in prison.

www.nbcnews.com

We often see defendants who are found guilty being released on bond before their sentencing. But this judge isn't having it.

 

[aafromaa]

Can someone clarify something for me?

In NM a person convicted of a 4th degree felony - which is what the involuntary manslaughter charge is if I’m not mistaken - can own firearms again after 10 years. But Federal Law has no 10 year limit on that restriction for those convicted of a felony so I’m not sure why NM has that law. Doesn’t Federal Law trump state law? And of course HGR isn’t likely do reside in NM when she gets out of prison - I think she lived in AZ but not positive of that. Anyway, does this conviction mean that HGR cannot own or possess a firearm for 10 years or forever?

TIA

 

[Cool Cats]

Alec Baldwin Had ‘Absolutely No Control’ Over His Emotions on ‘Rust’ Set, Prosecutor Argues

Prosecutors intend to argue that Alec Baldwin could not control his emotions on the set of “Rust,” and that he “shamelessly lied” and repeatedly changed his story after accidentally shooting the film’s cinematographer. The actor is due to go on trial in July in Santa Fe, N.M., on a charge of...

news.yahoo.com

In a 32-page filing made public on Monday, prosecutor Kari Morrissey laid out the allegations against Baldwin in unprecedented detail.

She argued that Baldwin would scream and curse at himself and others on set, sometimes for no particular reason, and that his behavior contributed to safety failures.

“To watch Mr. Baldwin’s conduct on the set of ‘Rust’ is to witness a man who has absolutely no control of his own emotions and absolutely no concern for how his conduct affects those around him,” Morrissey wrote. “Witnesses have testified that it was this exact conduct that contributed to safety compromises on set.”

The actor has claimed that he did not pull the trigger of the gun.

Morrissey noted that Baldwin did not make that claim in his initial police interview, but only offered it more than a month later, in an interview with ABC’s George Stephanopoulos. In the Stephanopoulos interview, Baldwin also said that he pointed the gun at Hutchins only after she instructed him to — another claim that did not appear in his police interview.

 

[Weki]

Hahahahaha I just read Morrissey's reply to the MTD and I'm readyyyyyyyy for this trial! She is going to bury him. Eight defense lawyers?? Eight?? As I suspected during HGR's trial, Baldwin was out of control on that set and that's what the state's theory will be during his trial. I think it will be compelling. I don't understand how Morrissey concluded that Halls and Baldwin were similarily situated defendants and should receive the same plea offer as a matter of fairness. Baldwin is the shooter. They are not similarily situated IMO. Not even close! I think her defense atty bias bit her in the behind on that decision as she herself admitted. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Hahahahaha I just read Morrissey's reply to the MTD and I'm readyyyyyyyy for this trial! She is going to bury him. Eight defense lawyers?? Eight?? As I suspected during HGR's trial, Baldwin was out of control on that set and that's what the state's theory will be during his trial. I think it will be compelling. I don't understand how Morrissey concluded that Halls and Baldwin were similarily situated defendants and should receive the same plea offer as a matter of fairness. Baldwin is the shooter. They are not similarily situated IMO. Not even close! I think her defense atty bias bit her in the behind on that decision as she herself admitted. JMO

Yup

State: Alec Baldwin's claims are 'false, misleading and histrionic'

New Mexico's response to Baldwin's motion to dismiss included extended reasons as to why they're continuing their criminal case against the actor.

scrippsnews.com

In a lengthy and, at times, dramatic response to Alec Baldwin's motion to dismiss pending manslaughter charges, New Mexico prosecutors accused the actor and his attorneys of offering a "predictably false, misleading and histrionic misrepresentation of the facts and circumstances of the history of the case

 

[Betty P]

Yup

State: Alec Baldwin's claims are 'false, misleading and histrionic'

New Mexico's response to Baldwin's motion to dismiss included extended reasons as to why they're continuing their criminal case against the actor.

scrippsnews.com

In a lengthy and, at times, dramatic response to Alec Baldwin's motion to dismiss pending manslaughter charges, New Mexico prosecutors accused the actor and his attorneys of offering a "predictably false, misleading and histrionic misrepresentation of the facts and circumstances of the history of the case

Well that's the first time I've seen prosecution attorneys trying to sell their case in the news media. It's rather rare and not a good look, JMO. I'll view their news media statements the same as defense attorneys when they do the same thing - I'll judge when I see the evidence and testimony submitted in court.

From your link, I find this to be concerning:

Baldwin has accused the prosecution of withholding exculpatory evidence from the grand jurors, Morrissey said it was available: "The truth is that the grand jurors were alerted to Mr. Baldwin's witnesses and documents, and they had no interest in reading the documents or requesting the attendance of the witnesses."

BBM

Prosecutors have complete control over Grand Juries, what they see and which witnesses testify. But state is claiming that exculpatory evidence and witness testimony in Baldwin's favor was "alerted to" the Grand Jury, but they had no interest in reading them or requesting attendance of the witnesses.

In most states, its the prosecutor who decides what is presented to a Grand Jury. The GJ members don't vote on which evidence they want to hear or not hear before deliberating on charges. It sounds like the state is making an excuse for not presenting exculpatory evidence to the GJ and that's a big no-no.

JMO, they know they probably can't make a case against AB, but they want to trash his reputation as much as possible in the news media to damage his career.