Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[klily444]

There is one problem with this. There is no 14th and Main. Main St. doesn't run to 14th St.

That is key here. Maybe she typed in 14th and Main and since there was no 14th and Main, it defaulted to 4th and Main.

 

[Soulmagent]

Not to upset the apple cart, but whatever became of the first person of interest? The black male with the beer belly who was seen from 1:00-1:15 am with HG on Main St.? The description is still up on the Charlottesville police site. I take it that this person morphed into JM. I am sure it has been explained but cannot find where.

The Charlottesville Police Department has released the description of a man a witness identified as having contact with Hannah Elizabeth Graham the night she disappeared. This person is described as a black male, 5’10”-5’11”, 250-285 pounds, close shaved head, goatee, with a slight ‘beer belly’. He is described as being in his late 20’s-early 30’s and wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt.

He was seen with Ms. Graham in the 300-500 blocks of E. Main St. on the Downtown Mall in the City of Charlottesville around 1:00-1:15 am on September 13th (Friday night/Saturday morning). He is a person of interest and if anyone has any information on him or saw him this night, please call the tip line. The number is: (434) 295-3851.

He isnt a suspect , he is a person of interest. Because we have witnesses that ID jesse mathews at 1:40 at tempo.

30 minutes later....

He is most likely the witness they have been seeking out. JMO.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

First, apologies if I mess up this post, I'm new here.

I suppose it's pretty pointless to be posting about this now, but Graham's walk to the downtown mall has bothered me for a while and I just had an idea about what might have happened, so I'm going to go ahead and post anyway.

I went to UVa years ago and lived and worked on the mall for three years--in fact, right on Water Street just a block or so away from where Tempo now is. I must have walked between the school and the mall--down Main Street--a couple hundred times. It seems nearly impossible to me that she would have deliberately walked to the mall via Preston Ave, that's an incredibly roundabout route. But at the same time, I find it equally impossible to imagine any UVa student wandering lost all the way down to the mall area from the university area, even if heavily inebriated. If you were that lost, even drunk you'd phone friends, phone a cab service, you'd stop and ask someone at McGrady's...not just keep on and on walking. Her trip ending at the mall seems too much of a coincidence to be entirely accidental.

It finally occurred to me that she may have been using her phone GPS and input the street number wrong. When she left the last party, she could have gotten turned around and headed up 14th Street in the wrong direction and ended up wandering about for a bit. If she was unable to raise friends with a text message (loud music at parties), she could have decided to use her phone's GPS and tried to input 14th and Main, the central intersection right near both the parties and her apartment. All it would take would be one little mistake--4th and Main rather than 14th and Main--and if she was close to Grady Avenue at the time, the GPS would have taken her straight down Grady onto Preston and then up to the downtown mall, where the intersection of 4th and Main is.

If you see her after she leaves McGrady's in the video posted above, she stops momentarily, and I wonder if she's checking her phone then. Same thing when she's reaching into her back pocket in the mall video. I suppose it's possible she was placing her trust in the phone's GPS rather than acknowledging that something just wasn't right.

As I say, I suppose this really doesn't matter. Feel terrible for her family.

Not a bad theory, but I think the streets that intersect with Preston are numbered, aren't they? She would have easily seen that she was heading away from 14th, if that's where she was headed.

Maybe it does, matter MMLTW...who knows, what if by some twist of fate JM is not the responsible one? These details might help find who was.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

He isnt a suspect , he is a person of interest. Because we have witnesses that ID jesse mathews at 1:40 at tempo.

30 minutes later....

He is most likely the witness they have been seeking out. JMO.

The thing about that first description that I can't get past is the black jeans and white t-shirt...there's no way that even a person who isn't paying much attention would mistake what JM was wearing for black jeans and a white t-shirt! Very curious, to say the least...

 

[Jmm124567]

First, apologies if I mess up this post, I'm new here.

I suppose it's pretty pointless to be posting about this now, but Graham's walk to the downtown mall has bothered me for a while and I just had an idea about what might have happened, so I'm going to go ahead and post anyway.

I went to UVa years ago and lived and worked on the mall for three years--in fact, right on Water Street just a block or so away from where Tempo now is. I must have walked between the school and the mall--down Main Street--a couple hundred times. It seems nearly impossible to me that she would have deliberately walked to the mall via Preston Ave, that's an incredibly roundabout route. But at the same time, I find it equally impossible to imagine any UVa student wandering lost all the way down to the mall area from the university area, even if heavily inebriated. If you were that lost, even drunk you'd phone friends, phone a cab service, you'd stop and ask someone at McGrady's...not just keep on and on walking. Her trip ending at the mall seems too much of a coincidence to be entirely accidental.

It finally occurred to me that she may have been using her phone GPS and input the street number wrong. When she left the last party, she could have gotten turned around and headed up 14th Street in the wrong direction and ended up wandering about for a bit. If she was unable to raise friends with a text message (loud music at parties), she could have decided to use her phone's GPS and tried to input 14th and Main, the central intersection right near both the parties and her apartment. All it would take would be one little mistake--4th and Main rather than 14th and Main--and if she was close to Grady Avenue at the time, the GPS would have taken her straight down Grady onto Preston and then up to the downtown mall, where the intersection of 4th and Main is.

If you see her after she leaves McGrady's in the video posted above, she stops momentarily, and I wonder if she's checking her phone then. Same thing when she's reaching into her back pocket in the mall video. I suppose it's possible she was placing her trust in the phone's GPS rather than acknowledging that something just wasn't right.

As I say, I suppose this really doesn't matter. Feel terrible for her family.

How do we explain the gap between the time she left the party which has been said to be 11:50pm and the time she arrives at McGrady's at 12:45 am. As a gauge she could have walked from her apartment to the DTM and then back to her apartment during this time because it only takes 25 minutes to walk to the DTM from her apartment.

What we know so far about her walk is:
She apparently left the party at 11:50pm which was around the 14th and Wertland area. Between 11:50pm to 12:45am we do not know exactly were she was walking at or if she was even walking during this whole time. What's telling on the McGrady's video is that she arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. but we do not know were she got on Preston at. This means though that when she left the party the direction she had to have been walking in was towards the DTM and at one point or at multiple points she changed direction and headed towards Preston and she ended up on Preston and then walks in the opposite direction of the DTM heading towards UVA and McGrady's. She ends up at McGrady's at 12:45am and then turns around there and walks back down Preston heading towards the DTM. She is walking on Preston and is captured on Shell's surveillance video at 12:55am. She ends up on Market St. because Preston Ave. turns into Market St. She then turns right onto 2nd St. which is the first street into the DTM from the direction she was heading. She walks down 2nd St. where a stores surveillance video captures her walking by shortly after 1am. She then takes a left onto Main St. and is now in the DTM. She walks down Main St. and is captured on Sal's surveillance video at 1:06am which also captures JM walking on the other side of the mall in the opposite direction of HG and then he cuts across and starts following her. On the next block is Tuel Jewelers and there surveillance video at 1:08am captures HG walking by with JM on her right side which means JM caught up to and made contact with HG in between the short distance between Sal's and Tuel's. They go to Tempo likely by walking down Main St. then turning right onto 5th St. and JM buys two drinks at 1:10am.

I think that HG was suppose to meet one or more people at a bar and that's what she was walking around looking for was the bar. If she was looking for a house party then she would be walking on the side streets in the residential area and I don't think she would get that lost looking for a house party because wouldn't it be right in that area she lives in. Instead she is walking on main roads which is where the bars are and in the DTM there are multiple bars. Her behavior at McGrady's could confirm she was suppose to meet someone at a bar because when she first arrives at McGrady's she stops at the patio and it looks like she is peeking into the patio as if she was looking for someone.

 

[Jmm124567]

He isnt a suspect , he is a person of interest. Because we have witnesses that ID jesse mathews at 1:40 at tempo.

30 minutes later....

He is most likely the witness they have been seeking out. JMO.

JM is also seen walking with HG on her right hand side in the surveillance video from Tuel Jewelers.

Police either lied about some details in that description as a strategic move or the WG just has bad memory I don't think he talked to cops until a few days later.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

JM is also seen walking with HG on her right hand side in the surveillance video from Tuel Jewelers.

Police either lied about some details in that description as a strategic move or the WG just has bad memory I don't think he talked to cops until a few days later.

LE had said that the person described by WG was not seen in the video, that that person had been interviewed and was not a POI, IIRC. Maybe that part was all lies...but why?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I've often wondered if HG was pledging a sorority, and if her "mission" that night had anything to do with that.

 

[Jmm124567]

If you see her after she leaves McGrady's in the video posted above, she stops momentarily, and I wonder if she's checking her phone then. Same thing when she's reaching into her back pocket in the mall video. I suppose it's possible she was placing her trust in the phone's GPS rather than acknowledging that something just wasn't right.

Where she stopped guess what was in front of her? The street sign! It looked like she could be looking at the street sign and checking the map on her phone. Also in what video did she reach into her back pocket at the mall?

 

[Soulmagent]

The thing about that first description that I can't get past is the black jeans and white t-shirt...there's no way that even a person who isn't paying much attention would mistake what JM was wearing for black jeans and a white t-shirt! Very curious, to say the least...

The white guy has on a white shirt and black jeans.

JM is also seen walking with HG on her right hand side in the surveillance video from Tuel Jewelers.

Police either lied about some details in that description as a strategic move or the WG just has bad memory I don't think he talked to cops until a few days later.

How did we know the white guy was a white guy?

 

[Jmm124567]

The white guy has on a white shirt and black jeans.

How did we know the white guy was a white guy?

It's obvious in the surveillance video from Sal's and Tuel's that the guy is white. In the Tuel Jewelers video it looks like they are blue jeans.

 

[mysterious minds]

I've often wondered if HG was pledging a sorority, and if her "mission" that night had anything to do with that.

I've thought the same thing all along. I'm pretty sure this is the time of year when pledging takes place. Can anyone confirm if that was going on at UVA?

I've also thought back to my college days and the ONLY time my girlfriends and I ventured from each other is if there was a boy involved. No one wants to play third wheel and a girl has more confidence being alone during those kind of encounters. It seems backwards but unfortunately is how we think during those days of innocence and coming of age. I was guilty of leaving my friends and also letting my friends leave me if a guy was waiting on the other end. Why not? A guy can protect us right? It's a safe pass-off right?
I've been haunted by her demeanor in the first video/picture of her starting her night in her apartment. She looks beyond happy, excited, confident. She looks like she's on top of the world. It just appears to me that she has that air of a girl finally meeting someone she's been interested in. That leads me to think that something either happened through social media that baited her in the direction or she got lost on her way to meet the good person and JM caught her at a vulnerable moment when she was tired and defeated and he positioned himself as saving the day and getting her back to her apartment/friends.

I'll also add that I've been bothered by the WG. I know that he's been cleared as suspect but if JM hadn't appeared in that exact moment during Sal's video, we would all be sitting her today convinced that WG's actions were beyond suspicious and all points to him. The threads were so rapid that it was hard to keep up. Can anyone post a thorough overview of WG and how he was cleared? Has he been heard from again?

And finally, maybe I've missed something, but "bald" vs. "dreads" is a big difference. How did the other guy fall off the radar?

I by no means think that JM is innocent. I guess I'm trying to reverse logic now and think of loopholes that the defense is going to try to find in the case.

 

[strawb93]

“When I saw her that night,” Abby says, “I remember thinking, she’s really drunk. She couldn’t walk well. She was slouched into him, leaning against him, like she was having difficulty standing up. He was talking to her, and his right arm was around her, not over her shoulder, not at the waist, but around her back and holding her right arm. He was holding her close, like he was almost holding her up. They walked away together up the street towards the Mall.”

BBM.

It would be very easy to conclude that this was purely down to drink/being drugged. But every time I have read this I can't help but think, what if Hannah had tried to walk away from him at Tempo, and what the door girl saw was actually JLM holding onto her, talking into her ear telling her to cooperate, don't make a scene, threatening her while leading her away towards his car.

At last orders and kicking out time, you see a girl being held close like that and of course you think shes drunk. But what went on to happen from that point just makes me wonder.

http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/

 

[Jmm124567]

BBM.

It would be very easy to conclude that this was purely down to drink/being drugged. But every time I have read this I can't help but think, what if Hannah had tried to walk away from him at Tempo, and what the door girl saw was actually JLM holding onto her, talking into her ear telling her to cooperate, don't make a scene, threatening her while leading her away towards his car.

At last orders and kicking out time, you see a girl being held close like that and of course you think shes drunk. But what went on to happen from that point just makes me wonder.

http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/

I have also thought that maybe some force was involved. In the Tuel Jewelers video it looks like he may have his arm around her in the same way Abby describes but it's not very clear.

Based on the surveillance videos I don't think HG was very drunk before she met JM. I think she was drunk but at the lower stages of being drunk like she may have still been able to walk a straight line and possibly drive fine. I don't think that was a drunken stumble she did at McGrady's it looked more like she got distracted and walked off the sidewalk.

 

[Bonacker]

I've also thought back to my college days and the ONLY time my girlfriends and I ventured from each other is if there was a boy involved.

Totally, totally agree. Love interest is the only explanation I really believe for her to leave a group of friends and go off alone. She looks so happy in those first, still images --- so true. You can imagine that if she were trying to meet a love interest, and she felt he was waiting, she might keep walking and walking like that . . . .. Add that together with a possible mistake in using her phone's GPS (which rings too true for me, also) and it's a credible explanation. Without HG's cell phone, is there any way her cell-company data would be able to tell police if she were using GPS or other roaming media?

PS: I also find the sorority pledge thing plausibale.

 

[Jmm124567]

Totally, totally agree. Love interest is the only explanation I really believe for her to leave a group of friends and go off alone. She looks so happy in those first, still images --- so true. You can imagine that if she were trying to meet a love interest, and she felt he was waiting, she might keep walking and walking like that . . . .. Add that together with a possible mistake in using her phone's GPS (which rings too true for me, also) and it's a credible explanation. Without HG's cell phone, is there any way her cell-company data would be able to tell police if she were using GPS or other roaming media?

PS: I also find the sorority pledge thing plausibale.

So you don't think she would leave a group of friends and walk alone to meet up with another group of friends? I think it is a fact that she would and that anyone would. She may have not been meeting a guy but just been excited to party. Didn't police say she was texting friends saying she was lost and I thought those are the friends she was going to meet up with.

 

[Skigirl]

I've often wondered if HG was pledging a sorority, and if her "mission" that night had anything to do with that.

Very doubtful. For one, sororities do not send women off alone at night on "missions" (went to big ten, know too many sororities and their ways to even count), two, her friends never said anything at all about a sorority mission that we know of. Third, the parties she went to earlier in the evening were in apartments, not fraternity or sorority houses. Yes, it is possible that they were hosted by people associated with frats or sororities, but the whole idea that a sorority sent her off alone (and apparently she would have been the only one sent off down Grady and over to the mall -- and if you've ever seen sororities during pledge season, you know there are herds of well-dressed women hanging around in clusters and there is seemingly no huge influx of women wandering around alone seen on any of the video cameras) just makes this idea totally implausible to me.

 

[Skigirl]

Not to upset the apple cart, but whatever became of the first person of interest? The black male with the beer belly who was seen from 1:00-1:15 am with HG on Main St.? The description is still up on the Charlottesville police site. I take it that this person morphed into JM. I am sure it has been explained but cannot find where.

The Charlottesville Police Department has released the description of a man a witness identified as having contact with Hannah Elizabeth Graham the night she disappeared. This person is described as a black male, 5’10”-5’11”, 250-285 pounds, close shaved head, goatee, with a slight ‘beer belly’. He is described as being in his late 20’s-early 30’s and wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt.

He was seen with Ms. Graham in the 300-500 blocks of E. Main St. on the Downtown Mall in the City of Charlottesville around 1:00-1:15 am on September 13th (Friday night/Saturday morning). He is a person of interest and if anyone has any information on him or saw him this night, please call the tip line. The number is: (434) 295-3851.

I think the police concluded that WG's description was off. He only saw this person of interest briefly, it was dark, and he didn't really have any reason to pay a whole lot of attention to specific features. He did describe this person as going up and hugging Hannah, which is what probably happened, given that we saw him on the next camera with his arm around her.

 

[imjustagirl123]

Sorry to ask but I have been following this thread and I'm unsure as to what or who WG is? Could someone clarify please.

 

[strawb93]

I think the police concluded that WG's description was off. He only saw this person of interest briefly, it was dark, and he didn't really have any reason to pay a whole lot of attention to specific features. He did describe this person as going up and hugging Hannah, which is what probably happened, given that we saw him on the next camera with his arm around her.

BBM.

Personally I don't buy that at all. (Not having a go at you Skigirl, it is the general consensus)

A man who was paying attention to the surroundings enough to notice a girl BEHIND him was distressed remembered white shorts as black pants and dreadlocks as a shaved head?

He FOLLOWED Hannah. It wasn't a cursory glance in her direction. He was actually watching her and the man who appeared and put his arm around her. There's no way anyone could be that far off to say the opposite of what they saw.