Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[CvilleMother]

14th and Main St. does exist. I mentioned before that 14th and Main St. doesn't exist then someone told me it does and that Main St. turns into University Ave. after 14th St. and I looked more closely and it is true. If she put 14th and Main into her phone it would work fine.

Actually, 14th and Main may not exist. 14th and WEST Main definitely exists. Main St is the downtown mall. West Main St. runs from the corner of ridge (which later becomes fifth street extended and then old Lynchburg road) to 14th st NW, where it becomes university avenue, and then later ivy road and then 250 west.

 

[Jmm124567]

Actually, 14th and Main may not exist. 14th and WEST Main definitely exists. Main St is the downtown mall. West Main St. runs from the corner of ridge (which later becomes fifth street extended and then old Lynchburg road) to 14th st NW, where it becomes university avenue, and then later ivy road and then 250 west.

If you want to get specific then yes. Most of the roads around there are abbreviated with N, E, NW, SW etc. The Main St. in the Downtown mall on Google maps shows up as E Main St. and some parts also say W Main St. This could also be confusing to HG. When I type in "14th and Main Charlottesville" into both Bing and Google maps it takes me to the correct location so it should work for HG.

 

[bakerlady]

Have you actually watched the cctv? Hannah's entire time at McGrady's is on the cctv and at no point is there anyone hugging her.

I was talking about Tuel's and the bouncer was supposedly from Fusion. In the beginning Longo and the rest of LE did not acknowledge JLM was walking next to Hannah in the Tuels video.

 

[bakerlady]

Do you have a link to the one the police didn't release? Its the only one I haven't seen. I will have a google and see if I can find it.

http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-new-video-footage-of-hannah/

 

[bakerlady]

When I was in college we had a special experiment done on us in class.

I forget what class it was but maybe psychology or law. Anyhow, we were all sitting in class and a man barged in the door unannounced and yelled something, took the teacher's cell phone off of his desk and then ran out.

We were then told it was an experiment and everything was OK. Then we were asked to write down the description of the man in as much details as we could muster.

I think maybe one or two people in a class of 30 got it all right. He was wearing a red shirt and half the class said blue or green. He had white shoes and people said black or brown, etc. It was very eye opening and I will never forget it.

The only thing we all remembered is he took something off of the desk and ran out and he was white.

Basically witness testimony is a mess.

 

[sixecho]

I've often wondered if HG was pledging a sorority, and if her "mission" that night had anything to do with that.

I think you're on to something here... It would explain a lot such as why she declined the offer of her male friend to walk her home, why she did not ask for help, why she didn't ask for directions, why we never heard about the party she was trying to get to, why her friends didn't report her missing until Sunday, and why the route she took had bars at every turn (McGrady's, Fellini's, and Tempo).

 

[Conductor71]

I know it is really hard to believe unless you have a) done experiments in this area and asked people to remember very salient features and watched dozens of them misdescribe even the most obvious things, or b) been a witness to a crime and found yourself with the subjective feeling that everything is absolutely seared into your memory, only to find yourself saying to the police, "I guess he may have been African-American... but I can't really be sure. He was wearing a hood, I think I saw very curly hair sticking out, but... now that you ask...". I'm supposedly an expert in human memory and have done lots of experiments showing that people remember things very poorly, and I was also witness to someone fleeing the scene of a crime, once. I saw it so clearly, yet when it came right down to specific features, I remembered it so poorly.

Especially when you are asking to recall when being interviewed by police. Even if you have been the victim and are describing the perp; you may have done nothing wrong, but I imagine people still get nervous, anxious, easily swayed or flustered, etc. IMO it is human nature.

Kind of OT....in the 7th grade, when walking home from school I got hit in the back by some weirdo. Thank goodness that is all that happened. I was only able to give an overall impression to the police, but several classmates had same thing happen and gave same general portrait. That still helped them home in on the guy. I shudder to think what he was escalating toward.

In my experience then, and in what I am learning from this investigation is that we are more likely to recall an overall impression and physical basics at best. Still, I cannot figure out how one could overlook dreads. That is a big unique identifying factor here in the US, IMO. That to me stands out more than anything else.

 

[Conductor71]

I think you're on to something here... It would explain a lot such as why she declined the offer of her male friend to walk her home, why she did not ask for help, why she didn't ask for directions, why we never heard about the party she was trying to get to, why her friends didn't report her missing until Sunday, and why the route she took had bars at every turn (McGrady's, Fellini's, and Tempo).

So you are thinking her route downtown was like an induction or pledge rite or challenge of some sort?

 

[Jmm124567]

Jmm124567 - If typing "14th and Main" on Google Maps brings up the correct location for you (it did not work for me personally, but I make mistakes on the regular), then perhaps MMLTW was correct when he/she theorized that Hannah merely input "4th and Main" by accident.

Did you type Charlottesville after 14th and Main? Type in "14th and Main Charlottesville" and it should work

 

[Jmm124567]

Also in the video all we see is a man walking, stop to look at his phone while stepping back a bit from foot traffick, and then continuing on his way. So many people thought he was super suspicious but I don't see how you could gleam that from a grainy video of a man just checking his cell phone. How man other people stopped walking to check their phone that night or on any given night? Tons, I'm sure of it.

Look at the Sal's video much more closely. Look at as the WG enters the frame he looks to be walking kind of diagonally and as he is walking at one point he turns his head and stares in HG's direction and continues walking to were he stops and pulls out his phone. It's kind of strange.

 

[Jmm124567]

HG apparently left the party at 11:50pm so where was she between 11:50pm to 12:45am (the time she arrived at McGrady's)? As a gauge, during this time she could have walked from her apartment to the DTM and back to her apartment because it is a 25 minute walk from her apartment to the DTM.

 

[alreetlike]

When I was in college we had a special experiment done on us in class.

I forget what class it was but maybe psychology or law. Anyhow, we were all sitting in class and a man barged in the door unannounced and yelled something, took the teacher's cell phone off of his desk and then ran out.

We were then told it was an experiment and everything was OK. Then we were asked to write down the description of the man in as much details as we could muster.

I think maybe one or two people in a class of 30 got it all right. He was wearing a red shirt and half the class said blue or green. He had white shoes and people said black or brown, etc. It was very eye opening and I will never forget it.

The only thing we all remembered is he took something off of the desk and ran out and he was white.

Basically witness testimony is a mess.

The reliability of witness testimony is something I find very interesting, after studying it in Psychology years ago. I sometimes play a bit of a game with myself, where if I've just walked past someone I'll mentally try and describe them then turn around to check how I did. I'm usually way off!

At least in this case we don't have a weapon, because that muddies the waters even more.

 

[mainemom]

MMLTW, CvilleMother & klily444: : IMO, the combination of your individual theories/insights provides what I believe to be the exact circumstances that caused Hannah to become lost and take the route that she took.

A brief synthesis of MMLTW, CvilleMother & klily444's posts:

After finding herself lost and wandering for a bit, Hannah resorts to using her phone's GPS to lead her back to the area of her apartment/the parties. The central intersection near that area is 14th and Main.

However, when Main Street crosses 14th, the name of Main Street changes to University Avenue. Unaware of this easily overlooked technicality, Hannah inputs "14th and Main" into her phone's GPS.

Since, technically, the intersection of 14th and Main does not exist, Google Maps defaults to "4th and Main." (If you input 14th and Main yourself, you will find that it indeed defaults to 4th and Main).

Assuming that Hannah was close to Grady Avenue when she input 14th and Main into her phone, the exact route Hannah took that night is the route that her GPS would have provided.

***All credit for these ideas and theories goes to MMLTW, CvilleMother & klily444. I contributed nothing. I merely summarized their posts into a short, cohesive story. I would have quoted each of their posts here but could not figure out how to do so.***

I'm going to bet someone already posted this (have not read past here) but when I type "14th and main, charlottsville VA" into google maps, it gives me the location at the edge of campus. It does not default to 4th and Main....

 

[Skigirl]

To clarify: eyewitness said "hugged," and those of us who've watched the video, and now the police, say that in Tuel's you can see JM's arm around Hannah.

I hate to quote myself, but in looking back at some of the articles, Longo said that the witness said that JM "put his arm around her," not "hug".

 

[Skigirl]

When I was in college we had a special experiment done on us in class.

I forget what class it was but maybe psychology or law. Anyhow, we were all sitting in class and a man barged in the door unannounced and yelled something, took the teacher's cell phone off of his desk and then ran out.

We were then told it was an experiment and everything was OK. Then we were asked to write down the description of the man in as much details as we could muster.

I think maybe one or two people in a class of 30 got it all right. He was wearing a red shirt and half the class said blue or green. He had white shoes and people said black or brown, etc. It was very eye opening and I will never forget it.

The only thing we all remembered is he took something off of the desk and ran out and he was white.

Basically witness testimony is a mess.

Yup. I used to do that exercise at the beginning of one of my classes. Students were always really surprised. Also, if you ask leading questions, it influences the way they remember things. There are some classic experiments in which researchers showed people videos of a car accident. The questions had an impact on lots of things, including peoples' estimates of how fast the car was going. "How fast were the cars going when they collided?" led to significantly lower speed estimates than, "how fast were the cars going going when they smashed into one another?" Those two questions also influenced whether or not people said they saw broken glass (which was not present in the video), with those who were asked about the cars smashing into one another reporting seeing significantly more broken glass.

 

[mysterious minds]

While we continue to debate and hash out the possible scenarios, I pray that her parents are able to one day know the truth of her journey that night. I pray that her friends honestly piece together everything to help Longo and the family understand how everything transpired. I pray that underage drinking, recreational drugs and typical college promiscuous behavior do not interfere with the complete truth leading up to the the CCTV that captures JM's involvement. And I THANK GOD for CCTV. The various businesses along the path that caught her journey and the patience to go through the footage to find those crucial moments. What are the odds? Especially knowing that the Sal's video where he turns and follows her is a complete fluke re: discovery?
This had a hellish ending but I hope that the truth of her journey is revealed. If not to us, at least to her family. It is one of the hauntings that what would keep me awake at night if I were her parents. I pray for peace to them and justice to the culprit.

 

[skyedaze1]

Where was Hannah trying to go? Does anyone know?
Also, does anyone know how the WG got cleared?
I wonder how long JM was following her...when her first picked her out as a target..

 

[CBTampa]

I was wondering if anyone knows where JM's car was parked, have we heard anything about that?

 

[Jmm124567]

Where was Hannah trying to go? Does anyone know?
Also, does anyone know how the WG got cleared?
I wonder how long JM was following her...when her first picked her out as a target..

1. We don't know where HG was going
2. We don't exactly know how the WG got cleared
3. JM followed HG for no more than 1 minute. As seen on the surveillance video from Sal's HG was walking in the mall while JM was walking on the other side in the opposite direction and he cuts across the mall and starts following her. Tuel Jewelers, which is a 1 minute walk from Sal's, surveillance video captured HG walking with JM next to her on her right side. So obviously in between Sal's and Tuel's JM caught up to HG and made contact with her. As I said Sal's and Tuel's are a minute walk from each other so he followed her for no more than one minute.

 

[LI-Mom]

I was wondering if anyone knows where JM's car was parked, have we heard anything about that?

LE said 4th. Around that area. Then went on to say the POI was parked somewhere around the mall, people had to have seen him. I later thought it was the north blocks of 4th but I don't recall if that came out in a later presser or an article, sorry.

ETA: I know LE had his car on video leaving the area so I assume they know approximately, if not exactly, where he parked. I hope they have video of Hannah getting in the car. And to keep his defense attorney from claiming he just gave her a ride and doesn't know what happened after that, I really pray LE has his car on video near Walnut Creek Park.