Happenings of December 26

[Mama2JML]

I get your point that "threw on" and "old clothes" can be characterized as bias...but what "spin" are you referring to that isn't supported by LO?

Bias influenced the poster's message. The spin="just threw on the same old clothes."

 

[Anyhoo]

Bias influenced the poster's message. The spin="just threw on the same old clothes."

You are correct I am biased against PR about having pre-existing knowledge of the murder. I'm sorry you didn't like the words I used to try to convey my message.

 

[bettybaby00]

You are correct I am biased against PR about having pre-existing knowledge of the murder. I'm sorry you didn't like the words I used to try to convey my message.

We all look at this with some sort of bias. It influences everyone in this case. The Rs had the most influence of all .

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think that is the problem. There is so much bias that the facts get lost. There is so much avarice that evidence gets ignored or denied.

The biggest problem with this case is that people have listened to too many other people and not taken the evidence step by step without any bias. IMO.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[bettybaby00]

I think that is the problem. There is so much bias that the facts get lost. There is so much avarice that evidence gets ignored or denied.

The biggest problem with this case is that people have listened to too many other people and not taken the evidence step by step without any bias. IMO.


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&&it leads to contrasting opinion!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes but the opinion should not be used to judge the facts. It should be only evidence.

Evidence doesn't have opinions. It leads to the truth all on its own.


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[Tawny]

Everyone, every single one of us, reads the evidence and forms their opinion based on that. No one is exempt from that.

 

[UKGuy]

&&it leads to contrasting opinion!

bettybaby00,
And that is just what IDI want, whereas the forensic evidence actually denies this. Opposing opinion is what IDI want not a consensus.

A bit like politicians who always write laws that divide communities.


.

 

[tezi]

Everyone, every single one of us, reads the evidence and forms their opinion based on that. No one is exempt from that.

EXACTLY, Tawny. And the evidence in this case leads me to the Ramseys.

JMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think it is important to look at the evidence and find out if it is actually real evidence or someone's opinion. This case is a miry mess of information.

I'm just saying before you form an opinion make sure it is based on real fact.


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[Venom]

And at the end of the day, it is still a FACT that PR was wearing the same clothes on December 26th around 6AM when the police got there as she had on December 25th in the evening.

 

[Venom]

EXACTLY, Tawny. And the evidence in this case leads me to the Ramseys.

JMO

And me too. :seeya: JMO

Good to see you back Tezi!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

And at the end of the day, it is still a FACT that PR was wearing the same clothes on December 26th around 6AM when the police got there as she had on December 25th in the evening.

Sure but what does that mean? Nothing. She probably just grabbed the stuff she left on the chair the night before. If she was in such a big cover up mode age would have put something else on. If she committed some horrible crime in them she would have gotten rid of them, destroyed them. She never would have kept them on or put them on to meet the cops.
Jmo




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[DeeDee249]

RBBM


DeeDee, need your help. :spring: When LE is showing JR pics from the CS, he describes seeing a bag filled with clothing and opines to LE that perhaps the bag of clothing could be a charitable gift meant for donating.

I have never seen an official reference to the whereabouts of the third piece of black luggage. IOW, did LE find evidence in PRs dressing area that she was indeed packing her apparel for the cruise?

IIRC, the plan had the Rs arriving in MI on the 26th and departing MI late on the 27th when they would be home for a day, Sat., Dec. 28, before flying out on the 29th to FL for the BRBC (Big Red Boat Cruise). PRs birthday was on Sunday, Dec. 29, 1996 although she already celebrated with a big bash in Denver in late November.

JR offers an explanation for the BRBC. I think it was always his idea to take a cruise and go to Charlevoix bc being w/his family was important to him. Plus it gave him an opp not to think about Beth.

PR celebrated her fortieth already and prob had no desire to be on a 4 day Disney cruise. She didn't want to host the Dec 23 party either.


" ... We had never been on a
16 cruise. Christmas is a tough time for us because I
17 think we lost Beth in January, and we liked to
18 kind of have things to do and planned.
19 So we thought, that would be fun thing to do, a
20 family thing. And we had never been on a cruise,
21 and going to the Big Red Boat and have fun with
22 the kids. So we just planned it and it was kind of
23 a first. Because I'd never done something like
24 that.

12 MIKE KANE: Who made those arrangements?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: Patsy made the reservations?
14 MIKE KANE: Was it through the travel agent?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: The travel agent. Actually
16 I think I remember calling Walt Disney directly. I
17 think I might have gotten the number out of a
18 magazine or something. Because I think I remember
19 joining the Disney or somebody like that directly.
20 Because we had the option of going to Disney World
21 for a day or two, and we no, because Patsy didn't
22 want to. I Remember."

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-birthday-patsy-1996.htm

JR's comment about the plastic bags is so odd, because I believe it was usual for them to put clothing in those bags to save weight on the small plane. Patsy herself told LE that. JR's comment is just one more thing to prove they didn't even remember what they lied about and what they said truthfully.
The suitcases were for the cruise and the nags were for the trip to Charlevoix. We haven't actually seen photos of all three black suitcases. Patsy said one was hers, and one each for the kids. Crime scene photos were taken in all areas of the house. Patsy and JR had their own bathrooms and dressing areas. In one of her interviews, Patsy is looking at photos of her bathroom and dressing area with LE and describing what is in the drawers and such. In that particular interview, there is no specific mention of a black suitcase. But if it had been in there, it would have been photographed.

 

[otg]

Bias influenced the poster's message. The spin="just threw on the same old clothes."

We all have biases once we are able to think. Our bias shows itself with the terms we (myself included) use. Terms like:

• Rush to judgement
• Hellhole (referring to the Ramsey home)
• Holding the body for ransom
• Scamseys
• BORG
• RST

I know we could each add to this small list. Even our use of the terms IDI, RDI, BDI, PDI, JDI, MAAMDI, or whatever, in themselves shows our bias. We all have them whether we want to or not. They're an unavoidable consequence of being human.

 

[Mama2JML]

We all have biases once we are able to think. Our bias shows itself with the terms we (myself included) use. Terms like:

• Rush to judgement
• Hellhole (referring to the Ramsey home)
• Holding the body for ransom
• Scamseys
• BORG
• RST

I know we could each add to this small list. Even our use of the terms IDI, RDI, BDI, PDI, JDI, MAAMDI, or whatever, in themselves shows our bias. We all have them whether we want to or not. They're an unavoidable consequence of being human.

That's why I said this:

"Bias is inevitable, but in many/most instances it can and should be curbed. 'Just threw on' & 'old clothes' are descriptors you have applied. But, an accumulation of facts provided by LE, first responders, witnesses, POIs, etc., don't support your 'spin'."

 

[otg]

That's why I said this:

"Bias is inevitable, but in many/most instances it can and should be curbed. 'Just threw on' & 'old clothes' are descriptors you have applied. But, an accumulation of facts provided by LE, first responders, witnesses, POIs, etc., don't support your 'spin'."

Whoa, Mama. Just to be clear to others (and I don't think you meant it that way), those weren't my words -- you were quoting yourself in addressing another poster. Right? (Not that I'm not capable of a little spin myself every now and then.:giggle: )

 

[Mama2JML]

Whoa, Mama. Just to be clear to others (and I don't think you meant it that way), those weren't my words -- you were quoting yourself in addressing another poster. Right? (Not that I'm not capable of a little spin myself every now and then.:giggle: )

BBM
Right. My quoted words were addressed to another poster: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10369850&postcount=978"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Happenings of December 26[/ame]

 

[DeDee]

I think it is important to look at the evidence and find out if it is actually real evidence or someone's opinion. This case is a miry mess of information.

I'm just saying before you form an opinion make sure it is based on real fact.


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I agree. However, since most of us have looked at as much of the real evidence as perhaps you have; some more than both of us, it has led each to their own conclusion.

From looking at, studying, reviewing and comparing, we form opinions about those facts. Therefore, our opinions, our conclusions, are based on the facts in evidence.

OMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I agree. However, since most of us have looked at as much of the real evidence as perhaps you have; some more than both of us, it has led each to their own conclusion.



From looking at, studying, reviewing and comparing, we form opinions about those facts. Therefore, our opinions, our conclusions, are based on the facts in evidence.



OMO

The problem I find is that there is a lot that is not evidence that is purported as evidence. There has to be a factual nonbias basis for that opinion first.
One easily debunked was that there were no foot prints in the snow as a basis for there being no intruder early on. Yet pictures taken at that scene show only sporadic snow not a constant later that would be impossible not to leave foot prints in. For years that was the basis for many many people believing that the r's had to have done this.

I'm just saying there are still many things or theories that have no basis in fact so if we firm an opinion off the falsehood then opinion or not it is really just fable.

Over time I have had to toss out many thoughts on this case based on this case because when I trace the trail of the " facts" it turns out to be not fact but an opinion that has turned into facts.

I'm not saying that I have all the answers in this case. I'm just saying no matter where you fall, make sure you are looking at real hard facts. Undisputed fact.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.