Happenings of December 26

[otg]

In the second addendum to the warrants, James Byfield (the affiant) wrote:

"Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 27, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury consistent with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact."​

otg,
What is interesting is Coroner Meyer opines there was Digital Penetration and there was Sexual Contact, now however you care to parse that, it does not add up to staging for me?

I interpret that as a description of an acute sexual assault using a finger?

This is up for interpretation, and I can't discount any object that may have been used at that time or in any previous assault(s) -- so long as they are approximately the same size. I can't say you are wrong in your conclusion, but I don't see the inference that Meyer was suggesting that there were two separate objects used. I interpret the above as two ways of addressing the same thing: The first is an observation ("an injury consistent with digital penetration of her vagina"), and the second is his opinion of what that observation means ("his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact"). I think that what Meyer was trying to say here is that she had not been penetrated with what would be expected in a typical rape (but that's just my opinion of Meyer's intent).

We know that there was trace evidence of the paintbrush inside her. What we (and for that matter, Meyer and other experts) don't know is whether that evidence came from direct or indirect transfer. I surmise it was direct because of the paintbrush alteration used in the staging and the fact that the tip was never found.

 

[otg]

otg - Your theory of JB possibly being restrained by the neck ligature from something above, and the head bash being used for control, which rendered her unconscious and unable to reach to loosen the neck cord when her body collapsed, isn't impossible to consider.

What I wonder is if it possible she couldn't reach to loosen the neck cord at some point because her hands were also restrained with the wrist ligature to something that prevented her being able to move them in defense. The right wrist was still tied into a ligature, but the left was free from it when JB was brought up from the WC. The photo of the wrist noose shows the end that might have been around the left wrist being constructed with another slip knot type loop wrap. Could this be because the killer wanted to be able to easily undo her wrists from a restrained position - and was able to do so once she became incapacitated from the head blow?

For a long time, I had thought that her wrists and neck were all tied together with one continuous length of cord while the section between the neck and wrists was thrown over something overhead (most likely one of the many pipes seen in some of the photos). This was particularly suspect to me because of the way two of the ends are frayed on each of the separate cords (indicating they were cut while under tension). But I don’t think now that this was the case because of the lack of bruising or cord abrasion on either of her wrists that would be expected from such an arrangement.

However, I still don’t really think her wrists were tied to actually restrain her. Were that the case, they should have been tighter knots than what was used, and her hands should have been tied closer together than the 15.5” measured by Meyer. To me this is some sort of “pretend restraint” -- something that if a child did could be somewhat innocent (think "cops and robbers", or "cowboys and Indians"), but if done by an adult would be much more sinister/perverted. Again, this speaks to me about the purpose of the ligatures and who would be most likely to use them like this (and I know this is where you and I will part in our interpretations of what it means).

 

[otg]

Holding a blunt object in one hand and diddling her with the finger of the other - hard to buy it imo. The weapon could have been close at hand, rather than in hand, but imo that would pretty much mean it's the flashlight.

Mine too. Close at hand, yes. But it didn’t necessarily have to be the Maglite. I don’t think the Maglite caused the skull injuries.

 

[otg]

That the ligature remained in the same place for a long time means either that BR took his sweet time summoning the parents (quite possible) or that the parents took one look, decided she was dead, that they needed to stage the crime scene (With PR quickly deciding to go along) and made no attempt to remove it. It's possible of course, but I'd think parents genuinely surprised by the accidental garrotting of their daughter might try to remove it.

This bothered me for a long time (that a parent could leave the ligature attached to her neck). But regardless of which of the R’s you think attached it, the fact remains that if you believe any one of them were aware of her death before they called the popo, they did allow it to remain around her neck for it to be discovered by BPD. So the question (to me anyway) becomes: Why?

And the answer to that seems to be that the strangulation couldn’t be covered up because of the obvious injuries, and the cause of her death has to be accounted for somehow to investigators. So as cold and heartless as it seems, I think they had no choice but to leave the ligature in place rather than let its removal point to their involvement in altering the crime scene. But I do think JR thought that he could alter it just enough to hide the exact circumstances of how it was tightened. (And I say JR here because I believe he directed the staging with the assistance of PR.)

And just as an aside, I’m not sure that anyone other than the person who hit her over the head knew about the head blow until it was discovered by the coroner.

 

[otg]

But if we are moving away from a childish game of "walk the doggie" to a weird kinky bondage scenario then don't we have to move away from a 9 year old in favor of an adult? I have trouble with the idea of a 9 year old as bondage-master with JBR's neck secured to something above and her wrists bound - but I did have a sheltered childhood.

I agree that many of the same things that might be done by a child in play or pretend would be interpreted completely differently if in fact they are done by an adult. If (and to me this is a big “IF”) this neck restraint was done by an adult, it’s a whole different ballgame. There is nothing that could be thought of as unintended accident if it was done by an adult.

 

[otg]

Exactly. otg may have a credible scenario concerning her death, but I do not think his selection of a perp is on track. I cannot see anyone other than an adult being JB's molester/killer.

If it was BDI, then he should be watched like a hawk for the rest of his life.

I understand, mwmm, that we disagree on who did what. We each have different life experiences that may influence what we think possible. No problem -- I still look forward to reading your opinions.

I read recently speculation that there might have been some kind of an “off-the-record agreement” between the DA and the R’s that since the crime of homicide was not prosecutable, he (Hunter) would sign the affidavit that Wood offered up in return for continued psychiatric counseling in Atlanta.

For reference, here’s a copy of the affidavit that Wood wrote and then Hunter edited before signing:

Cover Letter
Page-1
Page-2
Page-3

 

[Charterhouse]

I just wanted to thank everyone for all the wonderful posts recently. Lots of different views, as we normally have.

I know this is a little older post but I will have granddaughter on Monday. She is the same age as JB (she will be 6 1/2 on Monday), weight 46 pounds, and is 46 1/2 inches tall.

She does wear size 6 underwear and they are not tight.


I was going to measure the size of her wrists with a piece of string and see how little I could make it so that she could still get her hand in and just the size of her wrist. This is just for my information. But I will let you all know.

I know this does not allow for a garment on her wrist nor for the fact that rigor would make JB hand less able to be manipulated with the binding on her wrist. Also the size of the rope would have to be factored in. But I just thought it might be interesting.

Poor kid I don't want to freak her out.

Is there anything else you want me to measure or test on her without being too obvious. (lol) I know her wrists are really small but I have no idea the size without measuring.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

And she thought she was just coming to swim and a BQ.

I measured her wrist and it was 5 inches in circumference making the radius about l.59 or 1.6. This was at the wrist bone with a sock over her hand. So a radius of 2 inches is very possible with a thicker sweater and a little up above her wrist.

 

[Charterhouse]

Charterhouse- Another pertinent measurement would be from the midpoint of the back of her neck (where the knot of the ligature was found) and 17.5 inches in length (where the stick was tied) down her backside, and also from the knot spot around over her shoulder and down her front side. Kind of like a measurement a tailor would make from the neck to the waist to get a torso length of measurement. There has been speculation that the stick could have been inserted into JB's body (I'm sorry for how gross this may sound) so being able to confirm or dispell this by checking where the 17.5 inches would end might be helpful. Of course, feel free to decline. And my apologies if I have overstepped boundaries in requesting this.

I did measure this and it was not close. 17.5 inches in the back came to, I don't know how else to put it, the top of her hiney crack and the front was not close at all. I measured from the bone on the back of her neck.

 

[otg]

I measured her wrist and it was 5 inches in circumference making the radius about l.59 or 1.6. This was at the wrist bone with a sock over her hand. So a radius of 2 inches is very possible with a thicker sweater and a little up above her wrist.

Thank you, Charterhouse. It just struck me as questionable about the 2" that Meyer measured -- I would have thought that was too small. Hope you had a great Memorial Day gathering and didn't arouse any suspicions about your intent.

 

[otg]

I did measure this and it was not close. 17.5 inches in the back came to, I don't know how else to put it, the top of her hiney crack and the front was not close at all. I measured from the bone on the back of her neck.

Another indication that the paintbrush was tied to the cord after-the-fact?

 

[UKGuy]

This is up for interpretation, and I can't discount any object that may have been used at that time or in any previous assault(s) -- so long as they are approximately the same size. I can't say you are wrong in your conclusion, but I don't see the inference that Meyer was suggesting that there were two separate objects used. I interpret the above as two ways of addressing the same thing: The first is an observation ("an injury consistent with digital penetration of her vagina"), and the second is his opinion of what that observation means ("his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact"). I think that what Meyer was trying to say here is that she had not been penetrated with what would be expected in a typical rape (but that's just my opinion of Meyer's intent).

We know that there was trace evidence of the paintbrush inside her. What we (and for that matter, Meyer and other experts) don't know is whether that evidence came from direct or indirect transfer. I surmise it was direct because of the paintbrush alteration used in the staging and the fact that the tip was never found.

otg,

but I don't see the inference that Meyer was suggesting that there were two separate objects used.

Precisely my point!

Coroner Meyer only referred to a digit that is medicalese for a human finger.

Sexual Contact is just what it says on the tin, taken in tandem with the Digital Penetration we have an acute sexual assault inflicted by a human finger.

Coroner Meyer was simply couching his observations in neutral sounding medical terminology.

I surmise it was direct because of the paintbrush alteration used in the staging and the fact that the tip was never found.

I tend to agree with you here, although there is wiggle room for the splinter to have been attached to the assailants digit prior to her sexual assault. Suggesting a prior role for the paintbrush handle, and also why it might have been co-opted into a staged crime-scene, since its requirement is not self-evident?


.

 

[otg]

UKG,

I think we may have some agreement here :dance: that Meyer was not necessarily saying that there were two separate sexual assaults when she died (excluding the prior chronic abuse). This doesn't mean it's not possible, but Meyer's wording doesn't mean that that's his thought.

Our only disagreement now seems to be what was most likely to have been used. I think it was the paintbrush only, and you think it was most likely a finger with an indirect transfer of wood particles. Neither of us is completely discounting the possibility of it being the other, but we simply draw different conclusions about the likelihood of the object used.

Have I got that right, UKG?

 

[Charterhouse]

Does anyone know the temp in the basement of that house?

The house I grew up in had a very similar basement. It was not some place we would go to play. It was heated but it was still cold. We had the washer and dryer down there and an area we would play when it was warmer. If we were sent down to get something or get clothing from the dryer we would hurry back up to bring what ever or fold the clothes.

Of course we did not have the money that the R's did so they may have heated the basement the same as the rest of the house.

That is why a broken window never made sense to me. Would they not notice the draft?
Denver in Dec is cold. I just don't think the children would have been down there playing.JMO

There have sure been a lot of different opinions of things in the last few days. That is wonderful. I never even thought JB might not be JR daughter.

 

[UKGuy]

UKG,

I think we may have some agreement here :dance: that Meyer was not necessarily saying that there were two separate sexual assaults when she died (excluding the prior chronic abuse). This doesn't mean it's not possible, but Meyer's wording doesn't mean that that's his thought.

Our only disagreement now seems to be what was most likely to have been used. I think it was the paintbrush only, and you think it was most likely a finger with an indirect transfer of wood particles. Neither of us is completely discounting the possibility of it being the other, but we simply draw different conclusions about the likelihood of the object used.

Have I got that right, UKG?

otg,
More or less. I am allowing for a digital sexual assault with the outside possibility that the paintbrush was not used to assault JonBenet internally.

But I do think that the paintbrush was used to stage an internal injury with the intent on masking the prior acute injury and possibly any chronic abuse.

Coroner Meyer only ever suggested that there was one sexual assault, since by definition Digital Penetration is such an assault from which Sexual Contact must be inferred.

The problem lies with the splinter about which Coroner was deliberately evasive describing it as birefringent material suggesting he has an opinion on this subject.

That opinion might coincide with the use of the paintbrush or he might opine that the digit was the more likely source.

In summary our interpretations agree, I allow for one more than you do.

 

[otg]

(respectively snipped)

Does anyone know the temp in the basement of that house?

That is why a broken window never made sense to me. Would they not notice the draft?
Denver in Dec is cold. I just don't think the children would have been down there playing.JMO

I think the temperature would have varied quite a bit between the different rooms within the basement. The broken window was on the opposite end away from the WC, and the "train room" was in the same area as the broken window:

They're not indicated in the picture above, but the water heater is the grey dot next to "The Duct", and the furnace is in the corner next to the water heater (shown in the bottom right area of the following picture):

If you were standing in the area where the paint tote was found, the preceding picture is what you would see if you looked in that direction.

So draw your own conclusions from all this. The furnace would put out considerable heat close to it, and the broken window at the opposite end of the basement would let in a good bit of cold air.

 

[otg]

(bbm)

otg,
More or less. I am allowing for a digital sexual assault with the outside possibility that the paintbrush was not used to assault JonBenet internally.

But I do think that the paintbrush was used to stage an internal injury with the intent on masking the prior acute injury and possibly any chronic abuse.

Coroner Meyer only ever suggested that there was one sexual assault, since by definition Digital Penetration is such an assault from which Sexual Contact must be inferred.

The problem lies with the splinter about which Coroner was deliberately evasive describing it as birefringent material suggesting he has an opinion on this subject.

That opinion might coincide with the use of the paintbrush or he might opine that the digit was the more likely source.

In summary our interpretations agree, I allow for one more than you do.

"Staging" and "masking"?
:sigh:

 

[UKGuy]

(bbm)


"Staging" and "masking"?
:sigh:

otg,
Not certain what you are questioning, but historically one stages a crime-scene hoping that the original forensic evidence can be overlayed with the stagers representation, thus offering the stager an alternative interpretation and plausible deniability, an important consideration when faced with a possible jury trial.

.

 

[Nom de plume]

I was sheltered as a child, too, but a 9 year old as a “bondage-master,” is a stretch for me. Not impossible to imagine, dunno. IDK who came up with the cord used for strangulation:, BR was with her when JB had pineapple, the cord had PR’s jacket fibers, but in terms of who would fashion a “garrote-looking” device, my suspicion falls on the adult in the family who read suspense/ thriller novels - JR And then all the “flashy criminal threats” in the RN. When MM suggested perhaps JR dictated some of this to PR, a light bulb went on in terms of the note’s verbiage, the garrote and JR who read these books. It seems like JR is so much deeper in this crime than is indicated on the surface. JMHO.

BBM That's not necessarily the case even though it's always been presumed to be. Just because the tea glass & the pineapple bowl were both on the counter, it doesn't mean that they were used at the same time. The tea glass could have come earlier or later than the pineapple bowl and vice versa. For that matter there's no guarantee that they were even used on the same day/night.

ITA that JR is in much deeper than it appears!

 

[questfortrue]

Good observation about BR, the pineapple and JB. Though, PR's and BR's prints were on the bowl, it can't be a foregone conclusion that BR was with her at the pineapple ingestion.

 

[Chrishope]

This bothered me for a long time (that a parent could leave the ligature attached to her neck). But regardless of which of the R’s you think attached it, the fact remains that if you believe any one of them were aware of her death before they called the popo, they did allow it to remain around her neck for it to be discovered by BPD. So the question (to me anyway) becomes: Why?

And the answer to that seems to be that the strangulation couldn’t be covered up because of the obvious injuries, and the cause of her death has to be accounted for somehow to investigators. So as cold and heartless as it seems, I think they had no choice but to leave the ligature in place rather than let its removal point to their involvement in altering the crime scene. But I do think JR thought that he could alter it just enough to hide the exact circumstances of how it was tightened. (And I say JR here because I believe he directed the staging with the assistance of PR.)

And just as an aside, I’m not sure that anyone other than the person who hit her over the head knew about the head blow until it was discovered by the coroner.

I don't believe police were ever meant to see JBs body - not that morning. They'd eventually find it in the woods, or at the bottom of a ravine. The work of the "kidnappers" of course.