Happenings of December 26

[UKGuy]

In the redressing issue, the hardest aspect for me to figure out is the initial report from one of the officers that Patsy said she put JB down in the red turtleneck, but then later changed her statement to the white shirt with the star, which JB was wearing when found.

The only reason the white shirt would have to be part of the story is in keeping with the fact they laid a sleeping JB down to bed. Changing a sleeping child out of the white shirt and into a turtleneck, of all things, would be a challenge.

But, if Patsy had really been able to get an awake JB ready for bed, the red turtleneck wouldn't have been impossible - nor the pineapple snack she might have readied. When were the police first told that JB was brought home asleep and put to bed - that morning or later in the day?

If she or Burke (with her covering for him) had caused any harm to JB during the night and she was aware of what JB had been changed into before seeing JB in the living room that next morning, why wouldn't she have told police when they arrived that JB was wearing the white shirt?

:banghead:

midwest mama,
More than likely because she is telling the truth, i.e. she redressed JonBenet in the longjohns and red turtleneck and put her hair up, using the hairties?

Now the red turtleneck was found wet and balled up in the bathroom suggesting it might have been washed, i.e. forensic evidence removed?

Alternatively JonBenet was redressed in the red turtleneck, after undressing her pink barbie nightgown, since it was bloodstained?

Later to keep the story simple and consistent JonBenet was redressed in the White Gap top, but Patsy forgot this remembering her own dressing episode?

Whatever the truth is, there is something going on with the redressing, particularly with Patsy stating she never knew what underwear JonBenet wore to the White's, nor did she notice when she redressed Jonbenet in the longjohns, but she did note and argue about the White Gap top with JonBenet!

Why would Patsy redress JonBenet in the size-12's and not know the remaining 6-pairs were absent from JonBenet's underwear drawer?

Just what is going on over the redressing issue?


.

 

[learnin]

There is a crucial piece of information, that if we could know for certain, would tell us a great deal about dressing and re-dressing. The coroner observed dust and lint on JBR's feet when he walked into the house that evening.

I'm assuming this dust was on the soles of JBR's feet. If so, it tells me that the long johns were in place before the head blow. If there was dust on the soles of JBR's feet, then, this would have been removed if the long johns were taken off or placed on JBR.

Therefore, until I learn otherwise, I'm operating from the standpoint that no panties or long johns were removed, or placed upon, JBR after the head was struck.

 

[UKGuy]

There is a crucial piece of information, that if we could know for certain, would tell us a great deal about dressing and re-dressing. The coroner observed dust and lint on JBR's feet when he walked into the house that evening.

I'm assuming this dust was on the soles of JBR's feet. If so, it tells me that the long johns were in place before the head blow. If there was dust on the soles of JBR's feet, then, this would have been removed if the long johns were taken off or placed on JBR.

Therefore, until I learn otherwise, I'm operating from the standpoint that no panties or long johns were removed, or placed upon, JBR after the head was struck.

learnin,
Well if your assumption is correct then that adds another factor to my theory that the head blow was intentional and was intended to yield a visible sign of death, when that failed the ligature was applied.

Also must mean that the head blow was not intended to silence JonBenet due to her being abused?

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[DeeDee249]

IIRC, PR said that JB insisted on wearing the white star shirt to the party at the Whites. Also IIRC, we don't know whether she wore the white star shirt or the red turtleneck.

Maybe she was put to bed in the Barbie nightgown. It could be that the white star shirt and the white long johns just happened to be in the basement dryer with the white blanket. Maybe she was redressed in these clothes simply because they were convienently close by. If none of JB's underwear were in the dryer the size 12s could have been used because they also were close by. I would guess that the person redressing her did not want to go up to her room for other clothes.

We DO know whether she wore the turtleneck or the white shirt. Police have photos from the White's party showing exactly what each R was wearing. JB was wearing the white star shirt.

 

[midwest mama]

There is a crucial piece of information, that if we could know for certain, would tell us a great deal about dressing and re-dressing. The coroner observed dust and lint on JBR's feet when he walked into the house that evening.

I'm assuming this dust was on the soles of JBR's feet. If so, it tells me that the long johns were in place before the head blow. If there was dust on the soles of JBR's feet, then, this would have been removed if the long johns were taken off or placed on JBR.

Therefore, until I learn otherwise, I'm operating from the standpoint that no panties or long johns were removed, or placed upon, JBR after the head was struck.

There has long been some speculation that JB was "posed" during the crime. Is it possible that during the period of time between the head blow and the ligature strangulation which is believed to have been the order of happenings, that she could have been placed upon a child's chair, her feet upon the floor, and somehow be held upright by securing her hands with the long cord found upon her wrists up and over something??

If she were unconscious, there would have been no struggle against her hands being tied upward, allowing for them not to have been tied too snugly. The one loop end not secured to her wrist, but showing a slip knot configuration would be the easiest way to momentarily tie up her hands overhead to keep her upright, and leave an end with a knot that could easily be pulled to free her hands back up again in order to "undo" her from the pose. Maybe JR did not really remove the one side of her wrist ligature when he "found" her, as it was already loose - another obfuscation of the truth?

 

[learnin]

learnin,
Well if your assumption is correct then that adds another factor to my theory that the head blow was intentional and was intended to yield a visible sign of death, when that failed the ligature was applied.

Also must mean that the head blow was not intended to silence JonBenet due to her being abused?

.

Could be, UK. I really wish someone could confirm if there was considerable dust on the soles of JBR's feet. ST mentions this, in his book, and he thought it imporant enough to mention. Also, the coroner must have thought it important because he obviously made note of it, immediately, after seeing the body for the first time.

The only thing I know for certain, concerning this dust, is that if there was dust (grit) if you will, on the soles of JBR's feet, that means the long johns were not put on, or taken off, after that dust was collected.

 

[learnin]

There has long been some speculation that JB was "posed" during the crime. Is it possible that during the period of time between the head blow and the ligature strangulation which is believed to have been the order of happenings, that she could have been placed upon a child's chair, her feet upon the floor, and somehow be held upright by securing her hands with the long cord found upon her wrists up and over something??

If she were unconscious, there would have been no struggle against her hands being tied upward, allowing for them not to have been tied too snugly. The one loop end not secured to her wrist, but showing a slip knot configuration would be the easiest way to momentarily tie up her hands overhead to keep her upright, and leave an end with a knot that could easily be pulled to free her hands back up again in order to "undo" her from the pose. Maybe JR did not really remove the one side of her wrist ligature when he "found" her, as it was already loose - another obfuscation of the truth?

I suppose it's possible, that in posing, her feet could have touched a dusty floor. I tend to go with the more simpler explanation that she was standing on a dusty floor, or possibly sitting, when she was hit.

 

[madeleine]

midwest mama,
More than likely because she is telling the truth, i.e. she redressed JonBenet in the longjohns and red turtleneck and put her hair up, using the hairties?

Now the red turtleneck was found wet and balled up in the bathroom suggesting it might have been washed, i.e. forensic evidence removed?

Alternatively JonBenet was redressed in the red turtleneck, after undressing her pink barbie nightgown, since it was bloodstained?

Later to keep the story simple and consistent JonBenet was redressed in the White Gap top, but Patsy forgot this remembering her own dressing episode?

Whatever the truth is, there is something going on with the redressing, particularly with Patsy stating she never knew what underwear JonBenet wore to the White's, nor did she notice when she redressed Jonbenet in the longjohns, but she did note and argue about the White Gap top with JonBenet!

Why would Patsy redress JonBenet in the size-12's and not know the remaining 6-pairs were absent from JonBenet's underwear drawer?

Just what is going on over the redressing issue?


.

I just don't think a woman/mother would have picked such a big size...women pay attention to these details,men just don't care
not even in a panic situation,not when she's a perfection freak (looks)

 

[questfortrue]

There has long been some speculation that JB was "posed" during the crime. Is it possible that during the period of time between the head blow and the ligature strangulation which is believed to have been the order of happenings, that she could have been placed upon a child's chair, her feet upon the floor, and somehow be held upright by securing her hands with the long cord found upon her wrists up and over something??

If she were unconscious, there would have been no struggle against her hands being tied upward, allowing for them not to have been tied too snugly. The one loop end not secured to her wrist, but showing a slip knot configuration would be the easiest way to momentarily tie up her hands overhead to keep her upright, and leave an end with a knot that could easily be pulled to free her hands back up again in order to "undo" her from the pose. Maybe JR did not really remove the one side of her wrist ligature when he "found" her, as it was already loose - another obfuscation of the truth?

I had wondered about a pose too, because of her hands being tied.
It is looking more like a basement head strike, because of the material on her feet, but I wonder if she wasn’t assaulted, struck, and then redressed. The wiping of the blood, addition of the size 12 panties could still suggest she was redressed after being struck.

A “hiding” of JB somewhere (like the closet in the train room) might have had her kept upright by her hands over a pipe or closet pole. Possibly she was propped up against a wall in the closet with her feet on the ground and this would also account for why someone had to undo the one ligature on one of her wrists. (JR might be telling the truth about undoing her one wrist, he would have had to in order to move her into the WC or the area outside of the WC, depending on one’s theory.)

Also, the other reason I wonder about the closet in the train room is because FW didn’t spot JB in the WC, and the closet was blocked by a fireplace grate and he didn’t open this closet up to look inside.

 

[midwest mama]

I had wondered about a pose too, because of her hands being tied.
It is looking more like a basement head strike, because of the material on her feet, but I wonder if she wasn’t assaulted, struck, and then redressed. The wiping of the blood, addition of the size 12 panties could still suggest she was redressed after being struck.

A “hiding” of JB somewhere (like the closet in the train room) might have had her kept upright by her hands over a pipe or closet pole. Possibly she was propped up against a wall in the closet with her feet on the ground and this would also account for why someone had to undo the one ligature on one of her wrists. (JR might be telling the truth about undoing her one wrist, he would have had to in order to move her into the WC or the area outside of the WC, depending on one’s theory.)

Also, the other reason I wonder about the closet in the train room is because FW didn’t spot JB in the WC, and the closet was blocked by a fireplace grate and he didn’t open this closet up to look inside.

This is from the Carnes info:
Later that afternoon, Mr. Ramsey and Mr. White together returned to the basement at the suggestion of the Boulder Police. (SMF 32; PSMF 32; White Dep. at 212-217; J. Ramsey Dep. at 17-20.) During this joint search of the basement, the men first examined the playroom and observed the broken window. The men next searched a shower stall located in the basement. Mr. Ramsey then noticed a heavy fireplace grate propped in front of a closet and Mr. White moved the grate so the closet could be searched. Upon finding nothing unusual in the closet, the men proceeded to the wine cellar room. Mr. Ramsey entered the room first, turned on the light and, upon discovery of JonBenét's dead body, he exclaimed "Oh my God, my baby." (SMF 36, 37; PSMF 36, 37; White Dep. at 162-63, 193-93

I believe this closet was one that opened directly into the hallway. There was another closet in the train room.

I agree with you and also learnin' that JB could have been placed either onto a chair or into a closet or against a wall, arms suspended up and tied, with her feet touching the floor and body supported, until she could be laid flat in the WC. The livor and rigor patterns support her being in a fully extended position for a length of time after death, her back against a flat surface.

If that were the case, and she was "hidden" in a closet (maybe the one in the train room, which also held child's toys), it would have been possible for JR to move her when he went down alone near 10 am, placing her in the WC, and still allow for the livor and rigor patterns to be as they were upon her body, right?

But if she had placed onto a chair, she would have had to be freed from it before the livor and rigor patterns set in, and moved into a fully extended position.

Either way, it would account for the redressing to be concluded before the dust/lint collected on the bottom of her feet, and she was at least unconcious from the bash, if not already completely dead.

 

[otg]

If it's any help, this is from Forensic Pathology, Second Edition, By Dominick DiMaio, Vincent J.M. DiMaio:

Livor mortis is usually evident within 30 min to 2 h after death. Livor mortis develops gradually, usually reaching its maximum coloration at 8-12 h. At about this time, it is said to become “fixed”. Prior to becoming fixed, livor mortis will shift as the body is moved. Thus, if an individual dies lying on his back, livor mortis develops posteriorly, i.e., on the back. If one turns the body on its face, blood will drain to the anterior surface of the body, now the dependent aspect. Livor mortis becomes “fixed” when shifting or drainage of blood no longer occurs, or when blood leaks out of the vessels into the surrounding soft tissue due to hemolysis and breakdown of the vessels. Fixation can occur before 8-12 h if decomposition is accelerated, or at 24-36 h if delayed by cool temperatures. Thus, the statement that livor mortis becomes fixed at 8-12 h is really just a vague generalization. That livor mortis is not fixed can be demonstrated by applying pressure to a dependent discolored area and noting the subsequent blanching at the point of pressure.

 

[UKGuy]

This is from the Carnes info:
Later that afternoon, Mr. Ramsey and Mr. White together returned to the basement at the suggestion of the Boulder Police. (SMF 32; PSMF 32; White Dep. at 212-217; J. Ramsey Dep. at 17-20.) During this joint search of the basement, the men first examined the playroom and observed the broken window. The men next searched a shower stall located in the basement. Mr. Ramsey then noticed a heavy fireplace grate propped in front of a closet and Mr. White moved the grate so the closet could be searched. Upon finding nothing unusual in the closet, the men proceeded to the wine cellar room. Mr. Ramsey entered the room first, turned on the light and, upon discovery of JonBenét's dead body, he exclaimed "Oh my God, my baby." (SMF 36, 37; PSMF 36, 37; White Dep. at 162-63, 193-93

I believe this closet was one that opened directly into the hallway. There was another closet in the train room.

I agree with you and also learnin' that JB could have been placed either onto a chair or into a closet or against a wall, arms suspended up and tied, with her feet touching the floor and body supported, until she could be laid flat in the WC. The livor and rigor patterns support her being in a fully extended position for a length of time after death, her back against a flat surface.

If that were the case, and she was "hidden" in a closet (maybe the one in the train room, which also held child's toys), it would have been possible for JR to move her when he went down alone near 10 am, placing her in the WC, and still allow for the livor and rigor patterns to be as they were upon her body, right?

But if she had placed onto a chair, she would have had to be freed from it before the livor and rigor patterns set in, and moved into a fully extended position.

Either way, it would account for the redressing to be concluded before the dust/lint collected on the bottom of her feet, and she was at least unconcious from the bash, if not already completely dead.

midwest mama,
Some take a prescriptive approach to livor mortis claiming because specific livor mortis patterns are missing, some specific event could not have happened.

A close reading of otg's helpful post should confirm this. I had already researched this and decided that JonBenet's livor mortis patterns do not preclude her being moved or posed prior to her reaching her final resting place.

This is due to the fixed stage being variable, and allowing for JonBenet to have been in a different position from the one found in the wine-cellar.

This allows for a prior staging before the livor mortis becomes fixed.

I have one medical aspect to research before I post my theory to the Members Theory thread, alike the livor mortis it is conditional on the interaction of JonBenet's injuries prior to being asphyxiated, i.e. could it have taken place, or is it nonsense?


.

 

[UKGuy]

Could be, UK. I really wish someone could confirm if there was considerable dust on the soles of JBR's feet. ST mentions this, in his book, and he thought it imporant enough to mention. Also, the coroner must have thought it important because he obviously made note of it, immediately, after seeing the body for the first time.

The only thing I know for certain, concerning this dust, is that if there was dust (grit) if you will, on the soles of JBR's feet, that means the long johns were not put on, or taken off, after that dust was collected.

learnin,
Lint and dust on JonBenet's feet must disagree with the Ramsey's version of events. The pineapple snack already demonstrated this, so the lint and dust corroborate this.

The lint on JonBenet's feet could have transferred via her bedsheets when the R's placed her to bed, thats what a good attorney might claim?

that means the long johns were not put on, or taken off, after that dust was collected.

The longjohns could have been removed since this would not mandate all residual lint and dust falling off her feet, anyway some would have pooled in the feet of the longjohns, possibly re-attaching when they were placed back on her, i.e. presence of the lint and dust does not preclude the longjohns being removed, after being placed on JonBenet.

A stronger claim can be made that JonBenet was up and walking about, when her parents said she was lying in bed asleep. In my mind this reflects a scenario where JonBenet is readied for bed, dressing in the pink barbie nightgown, putting her hair up using the hair ties.

Whether this occurs prior to the pineapple snack or after is open to debate. I'm assuming in Kolar's theory JonBenet readies for bed, before going down to the breakfast bar, in her bare feet?

Or did Patsy oversee the pineapple snack, then assist in helping JonBenet prepare for bed, leaving her to go to sleep, then along comes either BR or JR concluding in some altercation?

Both assumptions have a weak interpretation, e.g. the lint and dust was only picked up in her bedroom, and a strong interpretation, e.g. that the lint and dust was picked up in the basement, even stronger is both the bedroom and basement acting as sources.

Assuming the basement is a source this suggests JonBenet willingly walked down to the basement. This would also favor Kolar's theory, since he says its starts in the breakfast bar and ends down in the basement?

One little debated aspect is the Barbie Doll found in the wine-cellar. Where did it originate from, was it one of the partially opened gifts, is it this that induced JonBenet to the basement, was this Santa's Visit coming true with the promise of a Doll, in return for allowing the abuse?

Or was the Barbie Doll and Nightgown simply part of a prior staging?


.

 

[DeeDee249]

The head bash was not seen or noticed at all until her scalp was peeled back at the autopsy. The head bash surprised those present at the autopsy. I cannot agree that the head bash was done to provide a visible cause of death for the simple reason that it was not visible. On the other hand, the garrote provided a VERY visible and plausible cause of death. This proves to me that the head bash came as a reaction to some action by JB-probably her scream.

 

[UKGuy]

The head bash was not seen or noticed at all until her scalp was peeled back at the autopsy. The head bash surprised those present at the autopsy. I cannot agree that the head bash was done to provide a visible cause of death for the simple reason that it was not visible. On the other hand, the garrote provided a VERY visible and plausible cause of death. This proves to me that the head bash came as a reaction to some action by JB-probably her scream.

DeeDee249,
Hence the necessity for the bizarre liagture contraption. Have you noticed how visible that is?

I am claiming that the head injury was a first attempt at killing JonBenet, this should have prompted a different staging scenario, but its failure to offer any visible sign of external injury, possibly beyond internal bleeding via her nose meant that something had to be dreamt up, this was done in the documented period of time between the head injury and her eventual asphyxiation.

With a bloodstain on her bedroom pillow I suggest this is the location where she was whacked on the head?

Common sense suggests no Ramsey has a motive for inflicting, a potentially mortal, head injury on JonBenet?

Other than one where it is intended to kill!


.

 

[Chrishope]

She changed her story during the police interview in April 1997.

That's what I figured. A lot of things change between Dec and April.

Plenty of time for the R's to get their story straight after consulting with lawyers, and also interesting that by that time JR had been judged "not responsible" for writing the RN by his hired examiners, but Patsy was not given a green light. She might have been thinking she was going to become incriminated, so had to go along with whatever scenario was being prepared for the interview.

Quite possible.

If she was truly innocent, and did not think JR the perp since he was cleared by handwriting, she could have then suspected BR did have something to do with JB's death. It would have been her only recourse if she knew nothing of the happenings of that night, unless she was talked into believing the intruder story. I doubt Patsy would have believed that, so as a JDI theorist, it leaves me to believe that JR told her he had to cover up for Burke.

That fits nicely with my theory of the case, yet it bothers me - at some point wouldn't PR/BR have a nice long talk? Would she realize BR was not involved?

Interesting that LE would have spent 5 months thinking JB wore the red turtleneck to bed. And, the Ramseys discredited a lot that BPD did, but never discredited any of the information which was reported by them regarding the morning of the 26th.

Except to the extent that changing their story discredits the info.

 

[Chrishope]

IIRC, PR said that JB insisted on wearing the white star shirt to the party at the Whites. Also IIRC, we don't know whether she wore the white star shirt or the red turtleneck.

Maybe she was put to bed in the Barbie nightgown. It could be that the white star shirt and the white long johns just happened to be in the basement dryer with the white blanket. Maybe she was redressed in these clothes simply because they were convienently close by. If none of JB's underwear were in the dryer the size 12s could have been used because they also were close by. I would guess that the person redressing her did not want to go up to her room for other clothes.

That's my guess too.

 

[Chrishope]

Chrishope,

Agreed, and my thoughts on the Wednesday might be completely wrong and the size-12's were chosen at random.


I disagree. You have the pink barbie nightgown in the wine-cellar, what does that tell you: it was not warm enough for JonBenet so she changed into the longjohns?


You said A further suggestion that a JR/PR co-conspiracy makes little sense? They could have made up any story they wanted.
What I am saying is that the R's version of events was determined by the staging, so they could not make anything up, i.e. Patsy knew about the longjohns, she and JR had story about placing her to bed. Patsy stated she redressed JonBenet in the longjohns. We know Patsy's version is inconsistent with the forensic evidence. Shortly after arriving home JonBenet was up and walking about snacking pineapple. I repeat JonBenet does not need the longjohns, she had a perfectly acceptable pink barbie nightgown available.
Then there is the issue surrounding Patsy's claim that JonBenet was wearing a red turtleneck to bed, again whats going on?

I reckon this can be explained away by Patsy having undertaken some prior staging, but later , another revision sees another R redressing JonBenet, with Patsy being updated later and possibly not at all with regard to the size-12's, hence her claims to BPD that she placed the size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer?

So was Patsy deliberately misled by another R, or is it all down the confusion and chaos of staging a homicide?


Patsy goes out of her way to explain away the longjohns, she does not attribute them to JonBenet as she does with the size-12's, she could have said JonBenet dressed herself in the longjohns. JonBenet was wiped clean of blood and redressed in the size-12's, so some clothing was changed. Presumably you are suggesting only the longjohns were never replaced? Consider Patsy's stated knowledge on this subject: she never knew what underwear JonBenet wore to the White's, she never noticed what underwear JonBenet was wearing when she redressed her in the longjohns, and of course she never knew that there were no size-12's in JonBenet's underwear drawer, discrediting her claim that JonBenet dressed herself in the size-12's!

You have to wonder why Patsy is claiming to redress JonBenet in those longjohns when her pink barbie nightgown is found beside her in the wine-cellar, or is that the clever part a switch back to her longjohns away from the pink barbie nightgown, making JonBenet appear consistent with what might be Patsy's version of events wrt the longjohns?

Maybe they did know she was still alive, no medical assistance called for though. Staged or not they reckoned the whack on the head had not produced any visible sign of death so they proceeded with the asphyxiation.

Another way to view the head injury is as a failed attempt to kill JonBenet, followed up with the asphyxiation, now as you have pointed out before, is that not an incongruous scenario for a kidnapping that has elicited a ransom demand?

That is, the kidnapper not only sexually assaulted JonBenet, she was also whacked on the head and cruelly asphyxiated, and just to underline how inept this kidnapper was he left JonBenet's dead corpse behind.

.

In reference to the part of your bost in bold - I guess I'm missing something. Why, if PR/JR are both in on the staging, would the R's version of events be determined by the staging? They could stage anything they wanted. They could have made up any scenario and staged consistent with the story they planned to tell. Or are you assuming a JR/BR joint venture here?

 

[Chrishope]

There is a crucial piece of information, that if we could know for certain, would tell us a great deal about dressing and re-dressing. The coroner observed dust and lint on JBR's feet when he walked into the house that evening.

I'm assuming this dust was on the soles of JBR's feet. If so, it tells me that the long johns were in place before the head blow. If there was dust on the soles of JBR's feet, then, this would have been removed if the long johns were taken off or placed on JBR.

Therefore, until I learn otherwise, I'm operating from the standpoint that no panties or long johns were removed, or placed upon, JBR after the head was struck.

Respectfully, I'm not sure that's accurate. If the body were dead or at least she was unconscious when the longjohns were put on, the redresser might have rolled the ljs up, somewhat the way a woman puts on stockings. Unlike stockings, ljs have no feet, so they could slip over JB's feet w/o knocking off all the dust With the body limp it's going to be quite a chore pulling them on.

It's not that your version couldn't be correct, it well might be. But there is a different way of putting on longjohns, a way that doesn't involve pulling them over the feet.


PS,

I can't recall from memory whether or not the LJs had feet in them. More often they don't, but it's an assumption I'm making, one that may be wrong. I have not been able to Google up a photo of the LJs.

 

[midwest mama]

My :twocents: :

IIRC, Fleet reached down to touch JB on the ankle in the WC, realizing she was cool to the touch, and with the coroner making a statement about seeing the dust on the bottom of her feet when he arrived, it makes sense that the lj's were footless. I also read somewhere recently that they had a red and blue stripe in the band, which makes them more so the male version, since often the female version usually has no coloration in the waistband. JMO

As far as PR and BR talking at length about the murder:
BR was under psychiatric care before, during and after the murder. There was testimony from a housekeeper that he was soiling himself as late as fall 1995, and the soiled pj bottoms discovered in JB's room after the murder were said to be his. His statement to police during an interview about looking forward to lighting the fireplace in Michigan (the trip that was cancelled) immediately makes me wonder about him being a firestarter. He was given an award for overall best Camper (JB got Camper of the Day) in a photo I recently saw - again, makes me think he might have been adept with campfires, ropes, etc.

My point is that PR might not have even been able to talk realistically about JB's murder with BR if he was as disturbed psychologically as the signs point to. Or, if she was made to believe BR did it, the lawyers by then could have worked very hard to make sure none of the family ever thought anything differently by suggesting they NOT question him further - in case he would be able to convince someone he had nothing to do with it. IOW, let him take the wrap so they would be off the hook. Or, go so far as to convince BR that the intruder really did the deed.

As far as BR/JR being a joint venture - maybe there is more truth in every aspect of that scenario than we want to believe. If JR was the one who intervened in something that had happened between JB and BR, he might have decided to finish everything himself rather than expose Patsy to the mess.

But, if Patsy then awakened and came upon the scene in time to cradle JB in her arms for a moment just prior to the final pull of the cord (by JR as a measure to end it all), it might explain a great deal of the forensic evidence and also how she could have been led to write the RN.

There is no doubt that there was dysfunction beyond all appearances in that household. At this time I feel JB was a victim of familial sexual abuse. There were male family members abusing her, and her mother was aware of the abuse, but had not been capable, at that point in time, of resolving it.

The night JB was murdered, rage was responsible for most of the damage she endured. But I think it possible that while some of the rage was directed toward JB, other aspects of the crime may have occurred as a result of rage directed toward another family member!