Happenings of December 26

[midwest mama]

I really do think that combination of:
--Kolar's book - which any seasoned sleuther can get months of re-think material from it.
--The revelation of what the GJ really determined
--The case back in the hands pf BPD for active review
--the (hoped for) possibility of BR coming forward for an interview - he is a man now, even his father publicly boasts of his ability to be self-supportive, IMO BR is much wiser now, he loved his sister, and he might turn out to be the #1 person who wants this case solved and can help get it solved once and for all.
---along with fresh thought being discussed here at WS and on other active threads/sites -
--Det Arndt might soon feel comfortable coming forward with the information she learned from PR shortly before PR passed away
---LHP might come forward with more details to help the investigation.

Yes, I expect there to be more news coming before the end of the year. strong hunch of mine

FROM YOUR KEYBOARD TO THE LORD'S HEART AND WILL!!

P.S. Re: your "loopier than.." statement, Chrishope,:floorlaugh:

 

[Nom de plume]

IMO, if BDI, the first thing JR would have done is to call a lawyer, even if it was in the middle of the night. He lawyered up the whole family as soon as JB was found. How is it possible to think he wouldn't have called one immediately if BDI?

"Hey Mr. Lawyer, my son just killed my daughter. What should I do?"
"How old is your son Mr. Ramsey?"
"He'll be ten next month."
"Nothing to worry about. He can't be charged with anything. Call the police."

 

[Chrishope]

IMO, if BDI, the first thing JR would have done is to call a lawyer, even if it was in the middle of the night. He lawyered up the whole family as soon as JB was found. How is it possible to think he wouldn't have called one immediately if BDI?

"Hey Mr. Lawyer, my son just killed my daughter. What should I do?"
"How old is your son Mr. Ramsey?"
"He'll be ten next month."
"Nothing to worry about. He can't be charged with anything. Call the police."

Well, possibly JB wasn't dead when the parent(s) discovered what BR had done. (BR hit her in the head but didn't put the garrotte on her, and maybe he/they could tell that JB was still alive) He couldn't call an ambulance and chance the discovery of chronic molestation. (But how did he get PR to go along with denying JB medical attention? By applying the garrote so that medical attention was a mute point? ) He couldn't very well ask a lawyer for advice on how to finish off his daughter. That, I imagine, is how BDIs would answer.

 

[Venom]

I really do think that combination of:
--Kolar's book - which any seasoned sleuther can get months of re-think material from it.
--The revelation of what the GJ really determined
--The case back in the hands pf BPD for active review
--the (hoped for) possibility of BR coming forward for an interview - he is a man now, even his father publicly boasts of his ability to be self-supportive, IMO BR is much wiser now, he loved his sister, and he might turn out to be the #1 person who wants this case solved and can help get it solved once and for all.
---along with fresh thought being discussed here at WS and on other active threads/sites -
--Det Arndt might soon feel comfortable coming forward with the information she learned from PR shortly before PR passed away
---LHP might come forward with more details to help the investigation.

Yes, I expect there to be more news coming before the end of the year. strong hunch of mine

Where did you see that Det Arndt learned info from PR before she passed away? I've never heard that, would like to read up on it.

 

[Chelly]

If BR could not be charged with a crime, why would the adult Ramseys implicate themselves in the murder of their daughter?

IMO this is a no brainer. Rational people (and the Rs were rational) don’t go to prison or get a lethal injection for a crime they did not commit. What else is there to say?

BR is not well served by having two dead parents. That thought must have occurred to both JR and PR, if they were considering covering in a BDI situation. Visiting his parents in prison doesn’t really serve BR well either.

If it’s BDI then the parents would have simply let that be known, through their lawyers. The case would go quietly away, as the perp could not be prosecuted. They had a Public Relations firm on the payroll to massage their public image - an image that is not enhanced or protected by 16 years of speculation and innuendo .


If JR and PR wanted to take the focus off Burke, they could hardly have chosen a worse way to go about it, as about half the RDI world now thinks BDI.

If BR could be charged with murder, it would still be an act of extraordinary self-sacrifice, even for a parent, to take the rap to save their child. Many men are in prison for murder, and not those men’s parents, so apparently parental self-sacrifice isn’t all that common in murder cases. It’s almost believable, but still quite extraordinary, if BR could be charged with a crime. But he couldn’t be. So the notion that the adult Ramseys were willing to face capital murder charges to save BR from – nothing, is utterly, totally ridiculous.

We know now that the GJ wanted to indict the parents, so the possibility of facing murder charges was quite real. Enormous risk, balanced against pretty much no gain. Losing one’s freedom, and possibly life, to prevent a child from having some psychiatric counseling (Which he’d obviously need if he did it) is not plausible.

I don’t know how to place enough emphasis on this. People do not implicate themselves in the murder of their child to “save” the other child who cannot be charged with a crime. This is loopier than a small foreign faction killing JB.

Thanks for this Chrishope. Your theory does appear logical in many ways. However I do have some quibbles that are being addressed on horatio's thread "The Only Theory that Makes any Real Sense" [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214933"]The only theory that makes any real sense. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[CorallaroC]

Where did you see that Det Arndt learned info from PR before she passed away? I've never heard that, would like to read up on it.

Venom,
the original article and WS discussions can be found here: (2006)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40840&highlight=interesting+article+linda+arndt

 

[Venom]

Venom,
the original article and WS discussions can be found here: (2006)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40840&highlight=interesting+article+linda+arndt

Thanks. The link is no longer good, so I'll have to try to do some digging to find the article. But I read through the thread.

 

[gramcracker]

here's a working link. will also post it in Linda Arndt poll thread

http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2006/jun/28/ex-officer-reached-out-to-ramsey/

 

[Chelly]

Well, possibly JB wasn't dead when the parent(s) discovered what BR had done. (BR hit her in the head but didn't put the garrotte on her, and maybe he/they could tell that JB was still alive) He couldn't call an ambulance and chance the discovery of chronic molestation. (But how did he get PR to go along with denying JB medical attention? By applying the garrote so that medical attention was a mute point? ) He couldn't very well ask a lawyer for advice on how to finish off his daughter. That, I imagine, is how BDIs would answer.

BBM. Many Sleuths believe that JR called at least one lawyer the night of Dec 26. (Those phone missing phone records would be one of the most valuable pieces of information.) However, I can't imagine the Ramseys admitting even to their lawyers the truth of the murder. I think the attorneys were kept in the dark as well.

 

[madeleine]

BBM. Many Sleuths believe that JR called at least one lawyer the night of Dec 26. (Those phone missing phone records would be one of the most valuable pieces of information.) However, I can't imagine the Ramseys admitting even to their lawyers the truth of the murder. I think the attorneys were kept in the dark as well.

I don't think their team of lawyers knew the truth...MAYBE Bynum was told something though...he was there when they were weak and didn't know what to do,desperate...

PMPT/pg 312:
"In answer to reporters questions,he(John Douglas) said he had been hired to determine whether John Ramsey was capable of killing Jonbenet,at time when,according to Douglas,Ramsey's attorney's weren't sure if their client was innocent."

CLIENT,not CLIENTS (singular not plural)-this was only about John IMO

 

[madeleine]

I am pretty sure someone was called from the Ramsey home that night/early morning...maybe a doctor?a friend?a lawyer?who knows ...but I agree those phone records are important information

 

[Chrishope]

BBM. Many Sleuths believe that JR called at least one lawyer the night of Dec 26. (Those phone missing phone records would be one of the most valuable pieces of information.) However, I can't imagine the Ramseys admitting even to their lawyers the truth of the murder. I think the attorneys were kept in the dark as well.

I don't think the lawyers were in the dark. Only a fool would keep his lawyer in the dark. The best way to be defended is to give your lawyer all the info possible.

 

[Chrishope]

I don't think their team of lawyers knew the truth...MAYBE Bynum was told something though...he was there when they were weak and didn't know what to do,desperate...

PMPT/pg 312:
"In answer to reporters questions,he(John Douglas) said he had been hired to determine whether John Ramsey was capable of killing Jonbenet,at time when,according to Douglas,Ramsey's attorney's weren't sure if their client was innocent."

CLIENT,not CLIENTS (singular not plural)-this was only about John IMO

It would be standard practice for each defendant to have a separate lawyer.

 

[Nom de plume]

I am pretty sure someone was called from the Ramsey home that night/early morning...maybe a doctor?a friend?a lawyer?who knows ...but I agree those phone records are important information

The DA's office made sure BPD could never get their hands on them. There was something to hide or else they wouldn't have bothered.

 

[madeleine]

The DA's office made sure BPD could never get their hands on them. There was something to hide or else they wouldn't have bothered.

I've read that Bynum once worked for Hunter ,dunno whether it is true or not cause I couldn't find any other info re this but it would explain many many things...everything that happened between police and the DA office is disgusting and unprofessional.So is what happened between the DA office and the MAIN SUSPECTS in this case.It's a shame.I saw a documentary about another murder in Boulder...and there was cocky Trip de Muth bragging about what a great job they did...made me wanna throw up...nobody said they have no clue HOW to solve cases....they just didn't wanna solve THIS one.

 

[otg]

I've read that Bynum once worked for Hunter ,dunno whether it is true or not cause I couldn't find any other info re this but it would explain many many things...everything that happened between police and the DA office is disgusting and unprofessional.So is what happened between the DA office and the MAIN SUSPECTS in this case.It's a shame.I saw a documentary about another murder in Boulder...and there was cocky Trip de Muth bragging about what a great job they did...made me wanna throw up...nobody said they have no clue HOW to solve cases....they just didn't wanna solve THIS one.

"Mike Bynum[FONT=Arial,Helvetica], close personal friend of Patsy and John Ramsey (1, 2) and a founding partner of the law firm Chrisman, Bynum & Johnson. He specializes in business law. Bynum is an ex-prosecutor who used to work for Hunter (23), and is said to have advised the Ramseys to "lawyer up" shortly after the murder. He is responsible for choosing the politically connected firm of Haddon (16), Morgan (16) & Foreman (5). Although not an official part of the Ramsey defense team, Bynum has hosted meetings in his law office between them, the BPD, and the DA's team. There are also rumors that at least two members of his law firm are working as part of the Ramsey defense team, although they have not been publicly acknowledged as such. Bynum is a business partner of "Pasta" Jay Elowsky (14), along with John Ramsey and Lowell Elowsky (18). His law partner, John Stavely (22), is "Pasta" Jay's attorney and Stavely represented Elowsky in court during his baseball bat and DUI incidents.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Another partner is Byron Chrisman (29), who financed construction of the building in which the JonBenét Ramsey Children's Foundation Office is said to be located."[/FONT]
​

Source: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/6d/6deg.html

 

[madeleine]

"Mike Bynum[FONT=Arial,Helvetica], close personal friend of Patsy and John Ramsey (1, 2) and a founding partner of the law firm Chrisman, Bynum & Johnson. He specializes in business law. Bynum is an ex-prosecutor who used to work for Hunter (23), and is said to have advised the Ramseys to "lawyer up" shortly after the murder. He is responsible for choosing the politically connected firm of Haddon (16), Morgan (16) & Foreman (5). Although not an official part of the Ramsey defense team, Bynum has hosted meetings in his law office between them, the BPD, and the DA's team. There are also rumors that at least two members of his law firm are working as part of the Ramsey defense team, although they have not been publicly acknowledged as such. Bynum is a business partner of "Pasta" Jay Elowsky (14), along with John Ramsey and Lowell Elowsky (18). His law partner, John Stavely (22), is "Pasta" Jay's attorney and Stavely represented Elowsky in court during his baseball bat and DUI incidents.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Another partner is Byron Chrisman (29), who financed construction of the building in which the JonBenét Ramsey Children's Foundation Office is said to be located."[/FONT]
​

Source: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/6d/6deg.html

yep,this is where I read it as well but didn't know whether the source is reliable or not

 

[Chelly]

I don't think the lawyers were in the dark. Only a fool would keep his lawyer in the dark. The best way to be defended is to give your lawyer all the info possible.

Possibly. However, I have heard more than one criminal defense attorney say they don't want their clients to confess to them.

 

[Chrishope]

Possibly. However, I have heard more than one criminal defense attorney say they don't want their clients to confess to them.

I know some lawyers and have never heard one say that. I can't imagine why the lawyer wouldn't want all the info possible.

 

[DeeDee249]

I know some lawyers and have never heard one say that. I can't imagine why the lawyer wouldn't want all the info possible.

I am the mom of a lawyer (not a criminal lawyer). The main reason why a defense attorney might not WANT to know is because then they may be in the position of defending a guilty client as if they were innocent. If they don't know (even if they suspect) they can approach it honestly. Like it or not, some lawyers do engage in unethical practices, in both defending and prosecuting a defendant, and in some cases they even lie in court. I don't know how this stands from a legal aspect, but if a defense attorney knows a client has committed the crime for which he is accused, how can they possibly maintain he is innocent? Then it becomes a sick game- if they can place enough doubt in the minds of jurors, or if they find some technicality to void the charges, their guilty client goes free. In some cases this "doubt" might take the form of throwing blame at someone else- someone they KNOW is innocent. I feel that is exactly what would have happened if this case had gone to trial. The DA is sometimes complicit in these games- stonewalling the police and refusing warrants for basic and necessary things.