Has the search been called off

[monoxide]

As much as we want Caylee to be found...I hate to say it but it is highly unlikely

 

[Studio_Medic]

I don't feel let down by Tim and TES. I am grateful for the time they spent here and all the work that they did. I do believe there may be more to the story than what he can tell us. I may be wrong too and it is as he stated it is. I have also thought about the fact that he and probably most of the team lives in Texas. Texas may get the impact of Ike and not FL, they just don't know yet. Maybe it was just a good time for him to take a break, regroup and take care of things at home as I'm sure they all need to do (just like us in FL) with the threat of a Hurricane approaching. I do want to hold on to hope that they found Caylee today, but really I can't second guess what is really going on no more than any one else can.

I can say that I don't feel let down at the least!

I agree with you that the maybe they needed to get back home to take care of personal business, however in a search and rescue mission you start scaling back your resources before you completely shut down your operations. As with Hurricane Katrina, we started off the first week with over 30 teams(from all over the US) as time went on and we completed some of the tasks (i.e. setting up a medical clinic, searching remote areas for bodies, finding housing for those who were suddenly homeless and feeding families who had no food) we started to scale back the operation and started allowing team members to return to their families. Many of us had spent 14-30 (18hour) days out in Gulfport Mississippi, Biloxi Mississippi and New Orleans so it was nice to be able to go home and know that we were able to assist others who desperately needed our help. But as I said before it was done slowly...not suddenly. Also before we could go back home we had to be "debriefed " by medical personnel, where we were allowed to express our thoughts, feelings etc as many of us experienced unpleasant situations, sights etc.

I watched one of the newslinks tonight (I think Fox News out of Orlando) and the reporter had asked about counselors being available for the searchers today as it was noted that many were visibly upset, he said "No, that Tim said it was best that they just sit around and talk amongst themselves about their feelings") Once again a disagreement on my part....

Being a Paramedic, one of the things the we go through is CISD (critical incident stress debriefing) that is where after an "unusual incident" usually the death of a child or a multiple fatality incident or any incident that is not of the norm, we are offered "counseling" in a group setting with a trained professional( Psychologist, Chaplain or CISD trained team member). We would never be expected to "talk amongst ourselves" and then go back to work. I ran a call several years ago where two children were shot and killed by their mother's boyfriend another child was critically injured, IT WAS HORRIBLE! After the call, while at the hospital I met with the hospital chaplain who allowed me to express my grief, my anger, my disbelief) remind you that my son was about the same age as one of the victims. In hindsight, I have to say had CISD NOT been offered to me, I would probably have quit my job that night, ending a 14 year career in EMS. So, basically what I am saying is that the searchers who were out there every day or even just one day should have been offered some type of professional counseling. It is not normal for ANY of us to spend our days off searching for a body of a two-year beautiful little girl......It definitely has taken an emotional toll not just on me, but I think, many of us....................................

Please do not think that I am bashing Equusearch, I think that they have done a wonderful job and all of it for an UNGRATEFUL family. I have not only donated my time but also my money so that they may continued doing what they do and that is finding closure for many families.

I just am baffled by the sudden disappearance of the group when Tim stressed to all us Friday morning that he would be here until Caylee is found........

 

[Gram2]

I don't feel let down. TES is a VOLUNTEER organization. They are under no obligation to anyone. I'm sure their reasons for leaving were honorable.

 

[Studio_Medic]

I can understand how you feel, I do. I don't feel let down by Tim. I feel more sad that this poor girl it out there and hasn't been found--that's where I feel let down. Casey let everyone down, bottom line. Her grandparents let her down as well. That is more than heartbreaking, it's unbearable to even imagine.

I could only go out for a couple hours today and was looking forward to searching next week--I took almost the full week off from work to do this. I just hope that Tim and his team will come back, I have absolute faith that he's a man of his word.

The only thing that confuses me is it hasn't rained here in awhile, it's actually gotten better as far as searching goes--not to mention the momentum was just starting to pick up BIG TIME. We went from 100 searchers to over 1,000.

OK you made me look at this in a different light....You are right it is not Tim/Equusearch who let me down...it is Casey and moreso the grandparents who have let all US down. Sorry, I guess I am just frustrated, angered and hurt amongst others things. How this family can sit there and allow hundreds of us to look for Caylee and not lift a finger to help us angers me a great deal. The one inkling of hope that we had to find Caylee is now gone.

 

[monoxide]

I don't feel let down. TES is a VOLUNTEER organization. They are under no obligation to anyone. I'm sure their reasons for leaving were honorable.

That is what I say. If they are back then they are back. Finding body/bones would only ignite the protesters even more causing more problems. Whoever was involved in the death/disappearance of Caylee will be brought to justice. Cindy has already made too many enemies with TES and law enforcement. She pisses somebody off every time she opens her mouth and now George is physically attacking people. It is only a matter of time before one of the family members crack and begins to talk. Hopefully it happens sooner than later.

If the law enforcement has everything that they claim and if all sources are correct I'd say they could already get a murder conviction on Casey pretty easily. In my opinion they don't want to take a chance. The has TES there searching. They are going to search until all leads are exhausted. If nothing comes out of the searches then I'd say we'll see some type of murder charge on Casey soon.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I agree with you that the maybe they needed to get back home to take care of personal business, however in a search and rescue mission you start scaling back your resources before you completely shut down your operations. As with Hurricane Katrina, we started off the first week with over 30 teams(from all over the US) as time went on and we completed some of the tasks (i.e. setting up a medical clinic, searching remote areas for bodies, finding housing for those who were suddenly homeless and feeding families who had no food) we started to scale back the operation and started allowing team members to return to their families. Many of us had spent 14-30 (18hour) days out in Gulfport Mississippi, Biloxi Mississippi and New Orleans so it was nice to be able to go home and know that we were able to assist others who desperately needed our help. But as I said before it was done slowly...not suddenly. Also before we could go back home we had to be "debriefed " by medical personnel, where we were allowed to express our thoughts, feelings etc as many of us experienced unpleasant situations, sights etc.

I watched one of the newslinks tonight (I think Fox News out of Orlando) and the reporter had asked about counselors being available for the searchers today as it was noted that many were visibly upset, he said "No, that Tim said it was best that they just sit around and talk amongst themselves about their feelings") Once again a disagreement on my part....

Being a Paramedic, one of the things the we go through is CISD (critical incident stress debriefing) that is where after an "unusual incident" usually the death of a child or a multiple fatality incident or any incident that is not of the norm, we are offered "counseling" in a group setting with a trained professional( Psychologist, Chaplain or CISD trained team member). We would never be expected to "talk amongst ourselves" and then go back to work. I ran a call several years ago where two children were shot and killed by their mother's boyfriend another child was critically injured, IT WAS HORRIBLE! After the call, while at the hospital I met with the hospital chaplain who allowed me to express my grief, my anger, my disbelief) remind you that my son was about the same age as one of the victims. In hindsight, I have to say had CISD NOT been offered to me, I would probably have quit my job that night, ending a 14 year career in EMS. So, basically what I am saying is that the searchers who were out there every day or even just one day should have been offered some type of professional counseling. It is not normal for ANY of us to spend our days off searching for a body of a two-year beautiful little girl......It definitely has taken an emotional toll not just on me, but I think, many of us....................................

Please do not think that I am bashing Equusearch, I think that they have done a wonderful job and all of it for an UNGRATEFUL family. I have not only donated my time but also my money so that they may continued doing what they do and that is finding closure for many families.

I just am baffled by the sudden disappearance of the group when Tim stressed to all us Friday morning that he would be here until Caylee is found........

I have no idea why the abrupt change. I have gone over this in my mind read all the threads and news I can find and am still no closer to any kind of theory that satisfies my curiosity at this point on why the sudden departure.

I do know this...I am in fact so very proud and just utterly at a loss for words to describe how I feel for the people that have given so freely of their time and effort to search for this precious child. I have never been involved in a search and I can only imagine the horrible conditions in which they have to be conducted in. I know that ya'll do not want to be called heroes but you are in my book and really that simple word isn't enough. I do agree that some kind of counseling should have been on hand for the people searching, it certainly could not have hurt. I know this for sure as well, if I was lost or one of my family members were lost, I would want you looking for me and I would appreciate every second you were looking. Thank You just isn't enough but Thank You.

 

[EastSideOfSaddness]

And let me just add.......

I hope George and Cindy come to their senses and realize that they not only lost their daughter & granddaughter but they just lost their chance with one of the greatest organizations and community to give Caylee a final resting place. If they have ANY human emotion they will regret everything they've ever said and this will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

 

[Baznme]

I have to say, I to, was in complete disbelief when I read that Tim Miller and Equusearch were calling off the search. I have only participated in one search and had plans to go back on Thursday and Friday to continue searching. I, like the rest of you, want CAYLEE home! I feel so disillusioned now by what Tim has said, citing environmental conditions for the reason to call off the search. He attributed the harsh conditions to the water left by Hurricane Fay....what???? We never even took a direct hit from Fay, that was Debary and Deland which is approximately 50+ miles away.. We had a couple days of rain but within in days it was dried up. I live about three miles from the Orlando International Airport and I have to tell you it is DRY!!!! Yes, the areas that we were searching were "mucky" but it is Florida.

I have been a member of a local DMAT (Disaster Medical Assitance Team) for years and the one thing that we are taught is that search and rescue does not take place in pristine conditions. We are taught how to work and live in austere conditions!!! Alligators, snakes, mosquitoes etc, all come with the territory. After Hurricane Katrina we had team members literally swimming in water that was littered with trash, dead animals, oil, gas and even decomposing corpses to search and recover bodies from houses. Not once did we ever say "Don't go in there the conditions are bad." Our team always held onto the hope that we might find someone alive....and we did.

I just don't get it, Tim said "You can rest assure that we are not leaving here until we find Caylee". Yet in a matter of minutes he calls off the search, packs up and heads back to Texas!

I feel that ALL of us have been let down. We were there for her..bottom line. Now what do we do???

Point 1: The storm we had was tropical storm Fay, not hurricane Fay. It lingered for a week over the central part of the state and the flooding was not exclusive to the Debary and Deland area. In Brevard county alone, there were amounts of rain ranging from 14 inches to 22.96 inches where I live. Brevard County and Orange County lines touch. After the storm the water continued to rise because the St. John's river flows north, thus the Debary and Deland areas getting the rising waters several days later. There are still pasturelands in both counties that cows don't have a dry place to stand. That will give you an idea of how much water is still here. It's been a hot humid summer so the water is not evaporating as quickly as it would in the fall.

Point 2: The volunteers are not all trained personnel. They come from all walks of life and are just trying to be 2 more eyes, 2 more feet and 2 more hands that can help find this little girl. While I appreciate the work you did on the DMAT (Disaster Medical Assistance Team), these people are told before they ever set off onto a search site that their safety and the safety of their teammate has to come first. They do not want people taking risks trying to pursue things that the experts are more appropriately called in to do and on a search of this scale for one little girl the resource of experts are spread pretty thin.

Point 3: All that being said, you can take Tim at his word, they have only suspended the search for Caylee. No one wanted to stop. We all want her found but if we cannot see what is below that water line, we could miss her altogether. I can see from reading the posts that many do not realize how much is still here. I was in the mud up to my mid-calf on Saturday stepping on undergrowth and losing balance every step and this was in an area that is not normally under water. In the same area, there was a gator under the water but you couldn't tell that's what it was until it moved. So, with the safety hazards and the fact that so much cannot be seen, I believe Tim's decision to suspend the search for now was a wise one. I've seen other posts that question Tim's reasoning and I can say without a doubt there isn't one ounce of deceit in that man's body. He is the same whether he is speaking to me or to the public at a press conference. He has dedicated his life to finding missing persons since the loss of his own daughter and little Caylee has stolen all the hearts of the Equusearch team. They will be back as soon as conditions improve and I feel confident we will find this little baby. Keep the faith and if you're in the Debary or Deland area, come back down when they return. Get on a team with several of us other WS'ers. We will all be the better for it and maybe that next time we can find her.

 

[Everly]

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/

David Lohr says Tim's wife Georgeann said:

She said that while they are both sad that the search had to be suspended, they are not giving up and will be back as soon as the waters recede. I asked when that might be and she estimated they would be back in about a month. In the mean time, they are going to continue the search for Natalee Holloway, a young woman who went missing in Aruba, on May 30, 2005.

Lohr himself is leaving on Tuesday. If he had any info that there was a big developement, would he be leaving?

 

[Studio_Medic]

Point 1: The storm we had was tropical storm Fay, not hurricane Fay. It lingered for a week over the central part of the state and the flooding was not exclusive to the Debary and Deland area. In Brevard county alone, there were amounts of rain ranging from 14 inches to 22.96 inches where I live. Brevard County and Orange County lines touch. After the storm the water continued to rise because the St. John's river flows north, thus the Debary and Deland areas getting the rising waters several days later. There are still pasturelands in both counties that cows don't have a dry place to stand. That will give you an idea of how much water is still here. It's been a hot humid summer so the water is not evaporating as quickly as it would in the fall.

Point 2: The volunteers are not all trained personnel. They come from all walks of life and are just trying to be 2 more eyes, 2 more feet and 2 more hands that can help find this little girl. While I appreciate the work you did on the DMAT (Disaster Medical Assistance Team), these people are told before they ever set off onto a search site that their safety and the safety of their teammate has to come first. They do not want people taking risks trying to pursue things that the experts are more appropriately called in to do and on a search of this scale for one little girl the resource of experts are spread pretty thin.

Point 3: All that being said, you can take Tim at his word, they have only suspended the search for Caylee. No one wanted to stop. We all want her found but if we cannot see what is below that water line, we could miss her altogether. I can see from reading the posts that many do not realize how much is still here. I was in the mud up to my mid-calf on Saturday stepping on undergrowth and losing balance every step and this was in an area that is not normally under water. In the same area, there was a gator under the water but you couldn't tell that's what it was until it moved. So, with the safety hazards and the fact that so much cannot be seen, I believe Tim's decision to suspend the search for now was a wise one. I've seen other posts that question Tim's reasoning and I can say without a doubt there isn't one ounce of deceit in that man's body. He is the same whether he is speaking to me or to the public at a press conference. He has dedicated his life to finding missing persons since the loss of his own daughter and little Caylee has stolen all the hearts of the Equusearch team. They will be back as soon as conditions improve and I feel confident we will find this little baby. Keep the faith and if you're in the Debary or Deland area, come back down when they return. Get on a team with several of us other WS'ers. We will all be the better for it and maybe that next time we can find her.

In regards to your points:

Point 1: You are correct it was a tropical storm not a hurricane, my mistake. My point was that Tim made it sound like the search was being called off due to the standing water left over from the storm, when in fact it was Brevard and Volusia counties that got hit the hardest. Like I said in one of my previous posts, I live approximately 3 miles from OIA and we are as dry as a bone, even the search area that I was in on Friday was relevently dry. I can understand stopping the search in the "water-logged" area but there were so many more square miles left to cover that were dry....So why stop????

Point 2: You are correct that most of the people are not trained. They are in fact volunteers from all walks of life and I can suspect that the majority of the people out there have never done something like this before. However, it should have been "stressed" that you will encounter alligators, snakes, etc and what to do if you encounter any of these creatures. Safety was stressed (to a point) and I say to a point because when I tried to explain to one of leaders (not the team lead, some guy from Tampa) that the area that we were going to search was a known homeless camp and that they can become very violent and have been known to booby trap their camp, I was blown off and he told the group "yea, they won't hurt you" Maybe he would like to speak to the paramedic who had a knife pulled on him while trying to help one of the homeless, in this camp. That right there showed me that he was NOT concerned about the safety of our team, whereas I WAS! Since it was my first day out and I wasn't really familiar with the set-up, I kept my mouth shut.

Point 3: As far as trudging through the water, I don't think that anyone should have been subjected to going into calf deep mud/water. YOUR safety should have been most IMPORTANT concern not just by the team but by the team lead. What would have happened had you fallen and broke your leg or worse yet gotten bitten by a snake?? As you know they are out there. Your team lead should have never let any of you go into the water or into any area that appeared unsafe(alligators) We all are on a mission to bring little Caylee home but our safety should be first and foremost.

Baznme, you are a very vital part of the search team and I would hate to see you get hurt. Let me just take the time and say THANK YOU for being out there!:clap:

As far as being able to take Tim's word, I sure hope that you are right. When he speaks to us you can see that he speaks from the HEART. You were there, you heard his dedication to the mission to find Caylee, you saw the tears in his eyes when he spoke of Caylee...that is why I have to question his motive for leaving. He didn't leave slowly, it was all of a sudden.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I figure they just wanted to go home before Hurricane Ike gets into the Gulf of Mexico and all travel shuts down.

 

[faefrost]

I've worked searches before. Sometimes actual ground conditions can be extremely hazzardous in ways that soemone not intimately familiar with the circumstances could not imagine.

I suspect the search suspension comes from consultation with LE on a few points.

- The water is making things hazzardous to search. It impedes the ability to actually see anything on the ground, while at the same time posing an extreme environmental and safety hazzard to the volunteers. There is an old maxim in the rescue services. "You do not throw good meat after bad meat". meaning you do not jeopardize the health and well being of your personel in a situation that cannot have a positive outcome. As sad as it sounds, Caylee is dead. A few more days to wait for conditions to improve will not make a diference to her. But trying to force the issue now can cause life altering injuries for the searchers.

- It is likely that LE is developing some new information, and is using it to re-examine or refine the search. They may feel they are close enough to something that they want the time to put some preasure on the players. Remember in LE's eyes finding Caylee is inportant, but getting KC or a member of the family to tell them or take them to her is an even more desireable goal.

- If the ground is that wet, they may be switching to search some very specific places using techniques that might tend to upset some a little bit. Namely dragging the ponds and standing water. This is probably those boat searches TM mentions. This is not a pleasant or gentle way of searching.

Just my 2c

 

[Baznme]

In regards to your points:

Point 1: You are correct it was a tropical storm not a hurricane, my mistake. My point was that Tim made it sound like the search was being called off due to the standing water left over from the storm, when in fact it was Brevard and Volusia counties that got hit the hardest. Like I said in one of my previous posts, I live approximately 3 miles from OIA and we are as dry as a bone, even the search area that I was in on Friday was relevently dry. I can understand stopping the search in the "water-logged" area but there were so many more square miles left to cover that were dry....So why stop????

Point 2: You are correct that most of the people are not trained. They are in fact volunteers from all walks of life and I can suspect that the majority of the people out there have never done something like this before. However, it should have been "stressed" that you will encounter alligators, snakes, etc and what to do if you encounter any of these creatures. Safety was stressed (to a point) and I say to a point because when I tried to explain to one of leaders (not the team lead, some guy from Tampa) that the area that we were going to search was a known homeless camp and that they can become very violent and have been known to booby trap their camp, I was blown off and he told the group "yea, they won't hurt you" Maybe he would like to speak to the paramedic who had a knife pulled on him while trying to help one of the homeless, in this camp. That right there showed me that he was NOT concerned about the safety of our team, whereas I WAS! Since it was my first day out and I wasn't really familiar with the set-up, I kept my mouth shut.

Point 3: As far as trudging through the water, I don't think that anyone should have been subjected to going into calf deep mud/water. YOUR safety should have been most IMPORTANT concern not just by the team but by the team lead. What would have happened had you fallen and broke your leg or worse yet gotten bitten by a snake?? As you know they are out there. Your team lead should have never let any of you go into the water or into any area that appeared unsafe(alligators underneath me) We all are on a mission to bring little Caylee home but our safety is first and foremost.

Baznme, you are a very vital part of the search team and I would hate to see you get hurt. Let me just take the time and say THANK YOU for being out there!:clap:

As far as being able to take Tim's word, I sure hope that you are right. When he speaks to us you can see that he speaks from the HEART. You were there, you heard his dedication to the mission to find Caylee, you saw the tears in his eyes when he spoke of Caylee...that is why I have to question his motive for leaving. He didn't leave slowly, it was all of a sudden.

We've all been through some experiences that we could have done better throughout these past 10 days. I fault no one but myself for some of the things I put myself through, no one else. You know yourself, once you're in the muck and mire and look back, you wonder how you ever got in there to begin with.

Tim is not gone, he's just off doing other things while the water dissipates. I know that some teams did not have the experienced leads that they needed but that wasn't the norm and I'm sorry if yours was in that category. Given the experience that you've had I think you would be a very qualified team leader and I would hope that you would sign up for that in the future.

To address your statement regarding the areas out by the airport. Yes, they are drier than other areas but, I think Tim (and I emphasize think) that the area within the 3 mile radius was what he wanted to really scour but that area seems to be holding the most water.

 

[ZooMomology]

OMG, a month. I can't believe that. They are going back to look for Natalie Holloway?

I am let down, I am sick and sad, TIM WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO COULD FIND CAYLEE, and she won't be found now. So, Caylee will have to stay where she is decomposing more and more all alone for another MONTH. This just makes me sick to my stomach. I am not let down by Tim, I think he is a wonderful person, but I think he is letting the family carp cloud his mind, allowing carp they say about everybory to hurt him and his efforts. I can't believe this. Poor Caylee, and KC will sit in AC, go surfing on the net, taking nice hot showers, having meals made for her daily, all while her child is probably laying dead somewhere.

 

[Baznme]

OMG, a month. I can't believe that. They are going back to look for Natalie Holloway?

I am let down, I am sick and sad, TIM WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO COULD FIND CAYLEE, and she won't be found now. So, Caylee will have to stay where she is decomposing more and more all alone for another MONTH. This just makes me sick to my stomach. I am not let down by Tim, I think he is a wonderful person, but I think he is letting the family carp cloud his mind, allowing carp they say about everybory to hurt him and his efforts. I can't believe this. Poor Caylee, and KC will sit in AC, go surfing on the net, taking nice hot showers, having meals made for her daily, all while her child is probably laying dead somewhere.

Try not to be so distressed. This time will give us all a little pause to regroup and they will be back, again, again and again until we find her.

 

[ZooMomology]

Try not to be so distressed. This time will give us all a little pause to regroup and they will be back, again, again and again until we find her.

I am sorry, Baznme, I really cannot help it. A month is 4 more long weeks if they come back in a month at all. A month the entire community has to wait, a month and then will want voluneers again and who will come out now after being sent home when they did show?

I don't know, very very troubling and sad news. I do not see any closure for anybody at any time unfortunately. This poor baby will have to remain forever whereever her mother put her. Like little Trenton Duckett.

 

[monoxide]

I am sorry, Baznme, I really cannot help it. A month is 4 more long weeks if they come back in a month at all. A month the entire community has to wait, a month and then will want voluneers again and who will come out now after being sent home when they did show?

I don't know, very very troubling and sad news. I do not see any closure for anybody at any time unfortunately. This poor baby will have to remain forever whereever her mother put her. Like little Trenton Duckett.

This lady will go to prison though. And sadly enough Melinda Duckett seemed much more trustworthy than Casey Anthony not that I believed her story

 

[ZooMomology]

This lady will go to prison though. And sadly enough Melinda Duckett seemed much more trustworthy than Casey Anthony not that I believed her story

GRAPHIC ALERT:

I know she has an ankle bracelet on, but what is to stop her from, after all have gone to bed, going to her room, and hanging herself with a sheet? I am pretty sure nobody is watching her while she sleeps.

 

[halleyscomet]

On one of the news stations, and I can't remember which one, they stated that the sherrif's office is continuing to search particular areas using sensitive equipment.

I think that's a positive sign. Maybe they have zeroed in on a location and now the sherrif's dept will do the actually recovery so nothing is destroyed or can be called into question at a trial.

 

[ScreenName]

I'm deeply saddened by TES calling off the search...for whatever reason. I do understand that they need to put safety first. I do believe that if Tim says he'll be back, he will.

I'm praying that Caylee has been found. We all have put ours hearts in finding this little girl. Some of us have been praying other have been out searching. THANK YOU to those that have been out there searching. :clap:

When they resume the search in a few weeks, I'll make every effort to be able to fly down there to do what I can. It's hard to just sit here on my laptop and do nothing.