Heart Shaped Sticker And Duct Tape #2

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  • #201
good post. Someone else could just have easily killed Caylee to keep her from telling KC or anyone else what he or she had done to her. But I don't think any abuse had been ongoing, simply because Caylee did not show any signs of abuse before the disappearance. The tape left on the mouth and the manner of disposal, even with the heart, seems to me like it could certainly fit in with a pedophile murder, but just as easily with a straightforward execution type of murder either to pay KC back for something or to silence Caylee or KC about anything. If KC had killed Caylee, I think she would have removed the tape to make the death appear more like it could have been an accident.
When/if they match the sheet of paper where the sticker came from back to Casey, the forensic evidence from the laundry bag back to Casey, the trash bag back to the one that Cindy gave them in July, trace dog hair back to the Yorkies and probably Casey's hair from the blanket found with the body...this case is over. No stranger. No pedophile. No executioner (unless they put the DP back on the table). (And these are just possible tiny pieces they could have to convict her! There is SO much more!!)
 
  • #202
LOL, thank you for the welcome. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. Some of the bizarre coincidences in this case would be laughed at as being ridiculous if they were in a novel. For example the ZG name/house owner/body drop location. It is so over the top that it almost looks like a set-up. If any of us KNEW what happened, there would be no need to be discussing and sleuthing. The unbelievability of the various pieces of this puzzle has contributed to the heightened interest that all of us have in the case.
 
  • #203
I don't know if this has been touched upon, I have not read all the posts in this thread. Could it be possible that she wrapped the duct tape around her to go along with a ransom request? Maybe that is why le was looking for disposable cameras? The whole, I had a script to follow, and didn't go to le because they would have hurt my family fits with this. I think perhaps her plan was ruined due to decomp, ga and the scene with the gas cans, and she was forced to discard the remains before she had time to finish her plan. I am still thinking about the sticker .... sounds like she was scrapbooking a memory, I am horrified by the thought of what this precious angel went through.
 
  • #204
LOL, thank you for the welcome. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. Some of the bizarre coincidences in this case would be laughed at as being ridiculous if they were in a novel. For example the ZG name/house owner/body drop location. It is so over the top that it almost looks like a set-up. If any of us KNEW what happened, there would be no need to be discussing and sleuthing. The unbelievability of the various pieces of this puzzle has contributed to the heightened interest that all of us have in the case.
---------------
Doesn't look like a set up to me,most has been proved as lies ~ you should catch up on reading.someone does know what happened but is not talking.
 
  • #205
The heart on the outside of the duct tape is very incongruous with any of the current theories.
1. If a kidnapping was staged by KC with duct tape placed postmortem, then it would definitely not make sense for KC to put the heart on the outside.
2. If the duct tape was placed premortem, (and one believes Caylee's death was accidental or non-premeditated) then one would think that the duct tape would be removed prior to burying the body. The tape would have incriminating evidence, prints, etc, AND one would assume that any accident would also involve an attempt to revive the child--hence removal of the tape.
3. If the duct tape was placed premortum and the child's murder was premeditated by KC, she would have more likely skipped town after abandoning the car and purse. This premeditated theory would also require a much better plan for after the murder, and a better effort to dispose of the body.

Don't all yell at me at once but....is it even remotely possible that
1. KC got involved in a scheme that was a minor crime and ended up witnessing or inadvertently participating in an event that would get her in serious trouble (for example an accidental murder during a theft where KC was supposed to distract or bait the male victim ). KC had left Caylee with some of these people for "safe keeping" while she and others committed the initial crime. Once they covered up the initial crime, lots of partying etc took place and perhaps the second part of the crime is occurring (for example blackmail of some guy) during that time. The blackjack phone is used exclusively for the crime planning etc and so was "lost." Meanwhile KC is under the impression that Caylee is being cared for by the "friends." The "friends" are supposed to bring Caylee back after KCs part in the crime or cover up is complete. The friends never do bring Caylee back and KC begins to worry. KC finds the decomposing body in her car trunk after noticing a persistant odor. She panics and puts the body in the wooded area after placing the heart sticker over the tape. She avoids parents etc due to her complicity in the original crime. CA calls the police and KC is arrested. The "friends" have killed Caylee and framed KC.

Alternately she could have hired someone "a friend" to stage a kidnapping of Caylee in order to get attention from her parents. The kidnapping may have gone bad and the rest an effort to cover her tracks.

OK I know it is far fetched but so are all of the theories involving KC. Anyone here think maybe a piece of this could be accurate? The heart sticker just tells me we are missing something big here. There are too many bizarre pieces to this puzzle that even KC couldn't have planned.


No you're not crazy at all. Lots of us here have considered possibilities along these lines and they are still as plausible as the morbid speculation that has gone on regarding KC being the murderer. Even on national TV they simply run wild with speculation, creating a whole speculative persona for KC along with motivations, etc. It's really unbelievable. Not that I can rule KC out at this point, but the speculation stated over and over as fact night after night on TV is pretty disturbing.
Lots of us have thought it's possible Caylee was held due to KC's involvement in a crime or because of KC witnessing something or even Caylee witnessing something. Casey may have thought friends had taken Caylee but was mistaken. Or, she may have known who had her and may have thought, however naively, that Caylee would not be harmed. She might not have been able to pay back money she'd taken, or she may have made off with someone else's drugs and sold them, or she may have crossed the wrong person or people. She may have been involved in a crime that went wrong and someone was murdered, and this was retribution, or it was in order to silence KC, many have commented on the gang hand gestures in the many photos (which could be completely innocent of course). KC of course could have been threatened that Caylee would be killed if she told, or she might have been thinking she was going to get her back somehow. I also did wonder about the possibility of a scam involving a faked kidnapping, either to get attention or money in some way, and it going wrong. One theory I can't see is the one you hear about Caylee dying in an accident but then KC staging it to appear like a kidnapping or murder, too much risk of incriminating herself in a murder. But the rest, certainly possible.

Regarding the heart and tape: I definitely think if KC was the murderer, she would have removed the tape before disposing of the body, just in case the body was ever found. Even if she had found Caylee's murdered body and disposed of it in a panic, one of the theories some of us have discussed a lot here and I still think it's an interesting theory, I think she would have most likely removed the tape from Caylee's face before disposing of her. So the fact the tape was left on is very odd, too incriminating to leave the body like that if she was the murderer, unusual for her to have left the body like that if she wasn't the murderer.
In either case though, I could easily see KC wrapping her in the blanket, whether for purely practical reasons as another poster mentioned above, which could certainly be the case, or for a more emotional reason. And I could definitely see her putting a heart on Caylee's hand or cheek, but not leaving the tape on and putting a heart over it. (In the case of finding Caylee's body, I think KC would probably have called the authorities instead, but you never know, if she was threatened or if there was a note that said this will happen to you too if you talk or if you don't pay us back our money, or whatever.)

The tape left on and heart placed on it seems more like a hate crime by another perpetrator, the heart could be a detail that a pedophile enjoyed, or could be a kind of calling card used by the killer.
 
  • #206
Yes, Nore, many lies have been proven. There is a difference between being innocent, and being involved in a way that we do not yet know or understand. I did not purport that she could be innocent. I have read a great deal about the case, and I am just choosing to look at things from a different angle than you. Isn't that why we are here? Maybe you could try to re-read my posts with an open mind? :)
 
  • #207
good post. Someone else could just have easily killed Caylee to keep her from telling KC or anyone else what he or she had done to her. But I don't think any abuse had been ongoing, simply because Caylee did not show any signs of abuse before the disappearance. The tape left on the mouth and the manner of disposal, even with the heart, seems to me like it could certainly fit in with a pedophile murder, but just as easily with a straightforward execution type of murder either to pay KC back for something or to silence Caylee or KC about anything. If KC had killed Caylee, I think she would have removed the tape to make the death appear more like it could have been an accident.

No she wouldn't not if it wasnt a accident. KC either thought nothing would trace back to her if the body was found or she really believed no one would find Caylee. Most mothers who kill there children get rid of the body close to home.Not reporting it for 31 days and lying from the get go doesnt look innocent to me. With all the other evidence LE has the jury is gonna see right through her.
 
  • #208
I don't know, Maybe, the police have already stated that she acted alone, which seems most likely. There is no evidence that she was anywhere with the child but in Orlando, a decomposition event took place in the trunk and the LIBS indicated that she was in the trunk, dead, for 2.6 days. When would these people have taken her?
 
  • #209
"Even if she had found Caylee's murdered body and disposed of it in a panic, one of the theories some of us have discussed a lot here and I still think it's an interesting theory, I think she would have most likely removed the tape from Caylee's face before disposing of her."
I thought that too, but what if Caylee had been dead for a day or 2 when KC found her. Then she may have been afraid or too repelled to remove the tape due to a squeamish factor.
 
  • #210
Removing the tape would likely rip off sensitive baby skin, and it would rip the hair out or be stuck enough that scissors would have to be used, both of which would leave evidence. For that matter, it's possible she TRIED to take the tape off while Caylee was alive, but realized how much damage it would do and decided to kill her at THAT point, rather than have to explain the damage it to anyone or have someone ask Caylee what had happened.

I agree with you. Having been duct taped myself around my eyes and mouth during a kidnapping the only way to remove it from your hair is to cut it. Even when large pieces tear out you still have to use scissors to remove all of it.:eek: With the family sooo concerned about beauty and perception of a perfect family how would KC explain a boy haircut on her sweet Caylee. Why haven't they put this sweet baby to rest and get her out of the cardboard box?:furious:
 
  • #211
LOL, thank you for the welcome. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. Some of the bizarre coincidences in this case would be laughed at as being ridiculous if they were in a novel. For example the ZG name/house owner/body drop location. It is so over the top that it almost looks like a set-up. If any of us KNEW what happened, there would be no need to be discussing and sleuthing. The unbelievability of the various pieces of this puzzle has contributed to the heightened interest that all of us have in the case.

Well put.

The truth can often be so much weirder than fiction, at the same time, when the truth is finally discovered it's usually pretty simple, something simple that just wasn't hit on. It's great when people get on here who want to really discuss the case from every angle trying to find the truth, rather than just repeating the media hype. Obviously there wouldn't be any purpose to webleuths if not for this.
 
  • #212
"Even if she had found Caylee's murdered body and disposed of it in a panic, one of the theories some of us have discussed a lot here and I still think it's an interesting theory, I think she would have most likely removed the tape from Caylee's face before disposing of her."
I thought that too, but what if Caylee had been dead for a day or 2 when KC found her. Then she may have been afraid or too repelled to remove the tape due to a squeamish factor.


That's a very good point. I think you're right. She might leave the tape on in that case, however horrified she was at the cruelty.
 
  • #213
"<respectfully snipped> I think she would have most likely removed the tape from Caylee's face before disposing of her."

That doesn't quite fit with KC's personality. She doesn't think about the ramifications of leaving the tape on. Once it was done it was on to the next obstacle......"what the f^ck to I do with her?" Answer....the trunk. Didn't have to face the next obstacle until the car started to smell.

To quote her Tupac saying on MS.

She ".....picked up the pieces and moved the f^ck on"!
 
  • #214
No one killed Caylee and put her in the Pontiac trunk except KC.
 
  • #215
No she wouldn't not if it wasnt a accident. KC either thought nothing would trace back to her if the body was found or she really believed no one would find Caylee. Most mothers who kill there children get rid of the body close to home.Not reporting it for 31 days and lying from the get go doesnt look innocent to me. With all the other evidence LE has the jury is gonna see right through her.
----------------------------
Amen and thanks cuppy!
 
  • #216
it concerns me that the investigation may have ended somewhat prematurely, due to the charges being brought. It's very sad if the truth will never be known or if the perpetrator gets away with it. Of course KC could be a murderer, I can't rule her out, but I'm definitely not totally convinced at this point. It's very scary to me that there are quite a few members of the public who seem like they would be perfectly happy for KC to be railroaded to a guilty verdict, you know, proof or no proof, why continue to investigate, why open any cans of worms? These are the ones who always claim, "Oh, for the LE to investigate anything other than KC would cost too much money, would take too much time, would be too much trouble, there wouldn't be any point, etc, etc." Very scary.
 
  • #217
No you're not crazy at all. Lots of us here have considered possibilities along these lines and they are still as plausible as the morbid speculation that has gone on regarding KC being the murderer. Even on national TV they simply run wild with speculation, creating a whole speculative persona for KC along with motivations, etc. It's really unbelievable. Not that I can rule KC out at this point, but the speculation stated over and over as fact night after night on TV is pretty disturbing.
Lots of us have thought it's possible Caylee was held due to KC's involvement in a crime or because of KC witnessing something or even Caylee witnessing something. Casey may have thought friends had taken Caylee but was mistaken. Or, she may have known who had her and may have thought, however naively, that Caylee would not be harmed. She might not have been able to pay back money she'd taken, or she may have made off with someone else's drugs and sold them, or she may have crossed the wrong person or people. She may have been involved in a crime that went wrong and someone was murdered, and this was retribution, or it was in order to silence KC, many have commented on the gang hand gestures in the many photos (which could be completely innocent of course). KC of course could have been threatened that Caylee would be killed if she told, or she might have been thinking she was going to get her back somehow. I also did wonder about the possibility of a scam involving a faked kidnapping, either to get attention or money in some way, and it going wrong. One theory I can't see is the one you hear about Caylee dying in an accident but then KC staging it to appear like a kidnapping or murder, too much risk of incriminating herself in a murder. But the rest, certainly possible.

Regarding the heart and tape: I definitely think if KC was the murderer, she would have removed the tape before disposing of the body, just in case the body was ever found. Even if she had found Caylee's murdered body and disposed of it in a panic, one of the theories some of us have discussed a lot here and I still think it's an interesting theory, I think she would have most likely removed the tape from Caylee's face before disposing of her. So the fact the tape was left on is very odd, too incriminating to leave the body like that if she was the murderer, unusual for her to have left the body like that if she wasn't the murderer.
In either case though, I could easily see KC wrapping her in the blanket, whether for purely practical reasons as another poster mentioned above, which could certainly be the case, or for a more emotional reason. And I could definitely see her putting a heart on Caylee's hand or cheek, but not leaving the tape on and putting a heart over it. (In the case of finding Caylee's body, I think KC would probably have called the authorities instead, but you never know, if she was threatened or if there was a note that said this will happen to you too if you talk or if you don't pay us back our money, or whatever.)

The tape left on and heart placed on it seems more like a hate crime by another perpetrator, the heart could be a detail that a pedophile enjoyed, or could be a kind of calling card used by the killer.

If you want to understand Casey's mind take a look at her Photobucket icon collection. In Casey's world hearts don't always mean what you think they might. One icon she had saved said:

"Revenge is love" followed by three hearts. Casey is cruel and heartless and her icon collection proves exactly what was on her mind, IMO. I agree that this was a hate crime.
 
  • #218
I agree with you. Having been duct taped myself around my eyes and mouth during a kidnapping the only way to remove it from your hair is to cut it. Even when large pieces tear out you still have to use scissors to remove all of it.:eek: With the family sooo concerned about beauty and perception of a perfect family how would KC explain a boy haircut on her sweet Caylee. Why haven't they put this sweet baby to rest and get her out of the cardboard box?:furious:

I believe JB is still in control of Caylee's remains. The medical examiner released them to the next of kin, KC who released them or signed them over to JB who is now responsible for Caylee. At the motions hearing the other day JB filed a motion for pictures and xrays of Caylees remains so H.Lee could do his examination of the remains and H.Lee will not be in Florida until the end of January. So it is my opinion that H.Lee will do his examination at the end of January and after that services will hopefully be held. This is the way I understand the information that has been put forth. CA and GA have nothing to do with the delay.
 
  • #219
No you're not crazy at all. Lots of us here have considered possibilities along these lines and they are still as plausible as the morbid speculation that has gone on regarding KC being the murderer. Even on national TV they simply run wild with speculation, creating a whole speculative persona for KC along with motivations, etc. It's really unbelievable. Not that I can rule KC out at this point, but the speculation stated over and over as fact night after night on TV is pretty disturbing.
Lots of us have thought it's possible Caylee was held due to KC's involvement in a crime or because of KC witnessing something or even Caylee witnessing something. Casey may have thought friends had taken Caylee but was mistaken. Or, she may have known who had her and may have thought, however naively, that Caylee would not be harmed. She might not have been able to pay back money she'd taken, or she may have made off with someone else's drugs and sold them, or she may have crossed the wrong person or people. She may have been involved in a crime that went wrong and someone was murdered, and this was retribution, or it was in order to silence KC, many have commented on the gang hand gestures in the many photos (which could be completely innocent of course). KC of course could have been threatened that Caylee would be killed if she told, or she might have been thinking she was going to get her back somehow. I also did wonder about the possibility of a scam involving a faked kidnapping, either to get attention or money in some way, and it going wrong. One theory I can't see is the one you hear about Caylee dying in an accident but then KC staging it to appear like a kidnapping or murder, too much risk of incriminating herself in a murder. But the rest, certainly possible.

Regarding the heart and tape: I definitely think if KC was the murderer, she would have removed the tape before disposing of the body, just in case the body was ever found. Even if she had found Caylee's murdered body and disposed of it in a panic, one of the theories some of us have discussed a lot here and I still think it's an interesting theory, I think she would have most likely removed the tape from Caylee's face before disposing of her. So the fact the tape was left on is very odd, too incriminating to leave the body like that if she was the murderer, unusual for her to have left the body like that if she wasn't the murderer.
In either case though, I could easily see KC wrapping her in the blanket, whether for purely practical reasons as another poster mentioned above, which could certainly be the case, or for a more emotional reason. And I could definitely see her putting a heart on Caylee's hand or cheek, but not leaving the tape on and putting a heart over it. (In the case of finding Caylee's body, I think KC would probably have called the authorities instead, but you never know, if she was threatened or if there was a note that said this will happen to you too if you talk or if you don't pay us back our money, or whatever.)

The tape left on and heart placed on it seems more like a hate crime by another perpetrator, the heart could be a detail that a pedophile enjoyed, or could be a kind of calling card used by the killer.

i have read quite a few of your posts in this thread and your theory that casey could have left caylee with friends or whoever and didn't think they'd harm her really doesn't make sense when you listen to her initial interviews with LE.
casey states that after trying to call "the nanny" she visited some places "the nanny" was known to take caylee, after not finding them anywhere she became frantic. but then wait, she went out with her b/f and rented some movies about kidnappings and murders. she texts her friends and gives no signs that anything is wrong, she even party's at fusion and tries to get her friends to come out for a hot body contest. but wait...i thought she was frantic because "the nanny" disappeared with her daughter? did casey just think "oh well, i'm sure she's fine"..and carry on as if "the nanny" would bring her back eventually? (a nanny that does not exist i might add)

when you have a child that you love deeply and you drop her off at the babysitters with an arranged time to pick her up and she is nowhere to be found, FOR DAYS, you don't go rent movies, you don't partay like it's 1999. you don't show up with evidence of a decomposing body in the trunk of your car, you don't show up with cadaver dogs hitting on areas of your backyard, you don't lead LE on a wild goose chase full of lies. (etc. etc.) you just don't. you don't act like the above when someone is holding your child for ransom or even if it would incriminate yourself in a murder.

the only murder in which casey would incriminate herself is the murder of her daughter. LE have focused primarily on casey because she is the last person known to see caylee alive, she lied, no one else lied, it was her car that had the stench of death in it, not anyone else. all evidence leads back to casey. i honestly cannot understand how people have a problem seeing that.

don't even get me started on the duct tape and the sticker, none of it makes sense because casey doesn't make sense, she's a complete psycho, sociopath, whatever her infliction, is that she somehow rationalized the tape and sticker in her own mind, something none of us here could ever understand.

whew!
 
  • #220
Well, Seagull, it's always good to keep an open mind, but so far there is no evidence to support the theory that anyone else was involved.
 
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