HODGE-PODGE - LISK-related

[Justiceforever]

Shoot, I'm all ears.
Amaganset and the Hamptons, what a coincidence... Manorville would be a way to Amaganset as well....

For those that were unsure of my explanation in my theory of dropping JT... would it be easier for me to draw my theory on a map for the out of towners???

That would be great! TIA!

 

[Justiceforever]

I don't know how far you read, but it's very obvious who the 'characters' are portraying in the screen play..... 'Eddie' is clearly Hacketts father, and 'Walter' is clearly Hackett..... Have you caught onto that yet?????

:what::what:

I got the impression that the writer wanted the reader to make that connection. Yes.

I take that back in my post below ; )

 

[Justiceforever]

Let me take that back. I think a person COULD draw that conclusion. You could also draw a few other conclusions.
I'm not so sure if the writer wants the reader to come to a certain conclusion or if he wants the reader to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I got the impression that the writer wanted the reader to make that connection. Yes.

Oookay, lets just get this thing a little back down on the ground again. First thing, the reference to Fieldnote's post about the odds of two SKs in one area:
In fact, there are only a few cases known, where only one SK is in an an area. The Hillside Stranglers crossed paths with Alcala with the the result, that Alcala dropped a body right on the backside of the same hill which was on the front side dumping grounds to the Hillside Stranglers. To make the chaos complete, a little more on the side of the same foothills, a road led up to some pricey big houses of actors. Guess what, that was where the Manson Family killed.
Or another example: Not only killed William E. Cosden a girl (one out of three, which makes him pretty pale in comparision), he killed her also in a time, Ted Bundy was around there. Neither Bundy nor Cosden knew, but Cosden was pretty happy that Cathy Devine was counted for more than 20 years on Bundy. Saved his life in a way or he would maybe have been a candidate for the needle.
Speaking of Bundy. Bundy tended to drive around in his Volkswagen Beetle. The bug needed gas and Bundy used always the same gas stations, for example one in Golden. One day, and less than an hour after Bundy left, another SK snatched the girl working at exact that gas station. Given, that in thirty miles radius two more girls disappeared from gas stations, witnesses two times described a truck ... well, a serial. How could he know his more infamous college had just filled his car there. Dooh! And so it goes on and on. Rifkin and Alcala overlapped in NYC. Toole, Lucas, Shore and half a dozen others hunted in the Houston area at the same time. Lets face it, it is NOT unusual to have more than one, it is unusual to have ONLY one.

Second thing: A writer's mind
I don't write screenplays, I write novels. So, I am not entirely the same species, only closely related. And the demands, readers, publishers, TV producers and whoever else in that business pose to writers are simply the same lately. A lot of people think, the more brutal, the more disgusting a work is, the more intense it is. And the more intense it is, the more it sells. I got manuscripts rejected by editors back with the comment "not brutal enough". And the business became shallow in that aspect. Thirty years ago, in Manhunt, Thomas Harris came through with descriptions of bloody crime scenes. All what happened played basically out in the reader's imagination. Today, he wouldn't. People demand explicit brutality. And on stage or even worse in TV, both are visual mediums, it goes more and more splatter. Some writers follow the trend, others not so much.
However, writers are a wide variety. From Harris, who wrote one of the most scaring SKs ever, but is happy to hide from people and whip very normal things up in his kitchen (hobby cooks are not that rare under writers) to that guy in Mexico, who wanted to write a cannibalistic vampire and for research reasons, killed some people to eat parts of them and drink their blood. Most however, don't kill. Writers create brutality in their imagination and they do it excessively. That doesn't mean, for most writers, we do it for real. We don't need to. Because while we write those stuff, we have more than our share of scary brutal thoughts. And most writers I know, feel after writing that kind of work rather the need for a shower, good music and a beer or the dark urge to cook something (which usually not cooked from human ingredients, just to make that point clear). So yes, even the most peaceful writer on Earth is probably able to write something disgusting, brutal and utterly vulgar if it is demanded. And admittedly, I wrote some nasty things too. That doesn't make me a serial killer, just a writer. Part of the job is to shock, to shake the reader.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Let me take that back. I think a person COULD draw that conclusion. You could also draw a few other conclusions.
I'm not so sure if the writer wants the reader to come to a certain conclusion or if he wants the reader to draw their own conclusions.

It's called "open ended expectation". Basically, the writer sets up a number of point that appear to support the mainstream expectancy. But he never says, it is or it is not. Thus, he allows the reader/auditorium to bring in the won opinion and feel good about it. Readers who feel good, are more likely to recommend the work to friends. It's not manipulating, rather allowing those with pre-formed opinions to manipulate themselves.

 

[Justiceforever]

Peter, I get what you are saying I do. I am not saying the writer of Book of : Confessions of the Oak Beach Killer is the killer. I just think that the Author AND the screenplay deserve some scrutiny. Do you not agree?

 

[Just K]

In one summary of this screenplay, FJV describes how two firefighters found the book among washed up debris, after Sandy, in Breezy Point.

 

[LR1]

Oookay, lets just get this thing a little back down on the ground again. First thing, the reference to Fieldnote's post about the odds of two SKs in one area:
In fact, there are only a few cases known, where only one SK is in an an area. The Hillside Stranglers crossed paths with Alcala with the the result, that Alcala dropped a body right on the backside of the same hill which was on the front side dumping grounds to the Hillside Stranglers. To make the chaos complete, a little more on the side of the same foothills, a road led up to some pricey big houses of actors. Guess what, that was where the Manson Family killed

That being LA, you could probably add another half a dozen cases to those particular overlaps. but how many overlapping cases are the victims found placed within 9/10 of a mile from from each other, and if you link the asian male to either gb4 or mv it would place them within 1500 feet.

I think its still up in the air and could be either one or multiple. the proximity as fieldnotes said is too much of a coincidence to rule out a single killer.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter, I get what you are saying I do. I am not saying the writer of Book of : Confessions of the Oak Beach Killer is the killer. I just think that the Author AND the screenplay deserve some scrutiny. Do you not agree?

Well, if you have time, go for it. Admittedly, I'm sidetracked, I work on something else at the moment and since I doubt, this guy knows anything more than we or anybody else, any scrutiny can only throw light on what he was thinking about the case, not the case itself. But that's only my opinion.

 

[Peter Brendt]

In one summary of this screenplay, FJV describes how two firefighters found the book among washed up debris, after Sandy, in Breezy Point.

The technique is sometimes called "mathom". The number of books and plays, that start with something somewhere found, where it has been

a.) never been expected (behind a wall that is pulled down for renvation works of an old house is very popular)

b.) washed ashore by storms (that can include books, messages in bottles, body or even living persons, as Shakespeare demonstrated in The Storm)

or

c.) left intentionally by someone for someone else, but fate, in form of storms, unforeseeable chains of events or simple stupidity fell into the hands of a third party

will fill libraries. Big ones.

 

[Peter Brendt]

That being LA, you could probably add another half a dozen cases to those particular overlaps. but how many overlapping cases are the victims found placed within 9/10 of a mile from from each other, and if you link the asian male to either gb4 or mv it would place them within 1500 feet.

I think its still up in the air and could be either one or multiple. the proximity as fieldnotes said is too much of a coincidence to rule out a single killer.

Gaah ... I should have known, if I bring LA as one out of three examples, someone would look at LA only ...
Okay, extreme examples then: I-45 corridor. Things there were so serial killer crowded for a time, two SKs, (and they didn't catch any of them) placed bodys not only in the same area, but actually #2 had accidentally reused the dump site of #1 just a few weeks after police had just cleaned it ... knowing Houston, they had probably recycling in mind or something. Consequently, those dump sites had a distance of split inches, not 1/10 of a mile or something that big. Just inches. Look at League City, I suggest.
The French had a funny case once. A guy named Lemairie was caught while dropping a body (actually while shoveling a shallow grave for it). Police arrived there totally surprisingly and didn't expect anybody digging holes there. They were just out there because another SK, Houtin, they caught the day before, had told them in interrogation, he had three bodies stashed away there. The distance between those dump sites were about ten to twelve feet (short under ten meters).
And the Bundy example form Golden? Well, the guy with that pickup truck snatched that girl at the same chashier at the same gas station ... so, what is that? Some inches distance to where Bundy stood less than an hour ago? Lets say four feet, assuming, he had to go over the counter?
And by the way, Jill Barcombe, one of Alcala's was found less than two miles form the Hillside Stranger's dump side and about half a mile from where the Manson Family hit. So it's also there not that much of a distance.
Well, but my favorite is still Texas. When police announced, they had two suspects in custody for the 1986 murder of Eilenne Schatelowitz, they felt also the need to make clear, that the case would be unconnected to the remains found in what was generally called the Killing Fields back then. This happened as something self-understanding, something entirely natural and the media actually took it as natural, that everywhere was more than one set of remains to be found from more than one killer.
Between 1992 and 1995 Anthony Allan Shore was raping and strangling girls. And because he hurt his fingers in the first murder, he changed to a tourniquet style strangling. His hunting ground and his dump zone had an extension of about three by two miles. He had no car. Still the police wasn't able to make a connection. Why? Because there was this other sucker dropping bodies in the same small area ... and then there was Bell, who claimed for a time, he did, and then there was Toole, who mentioned the same Dairy Queen in his faked confessions as a place where he lured for victims (Shore had dropped a body in their drive way).
California's freeways, they had three freeway-stranglers in the same time frame. Well, plus a few shooters and a home invader working in some towns along the same freeways. In the case of Adam Walsh, still nobody dares to say, was it Dahmer or Toole?

 

[PreciousDust]

The technique is sometimes called "mathom".

Those convenient plot contrivances are indeed interesting, and there should be a word for it, but everything I find indicates that "mathom" means a trivial object that one simply can't throw away (like the fruitcake that one gets for Christmas, and then bestows on someone else the following year, ad infinitum, ad nauseam).


http://www.worldwidewords.org/turnsofphrase/tp-mat1.htm

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mathom

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mathom?s=t

 

[Mountain_Kat]

"Mathom" is a word created by Tolkien. He got the idea from the extinct Anglo-Saxon word "mathum", which meant "valuable gift" or "treasure". In Tolkien's version of the word, the idea is that the object is indeed valuable, but it's value is not always immediately obvious. Which is why hobbits hold on to everything, I guess.

(Beowulf was bestowed with mathums after slaying Grendel.)

 

[LR1]

I'm wondering if LE ever considered Nikolai Rakossi a possibility. Something set this guy off shortly after the last remains were found leading him to murder his girlfriend and her daughter and get out of dodge. I haven't found anything linking him to prostitutes, burlap or if he was even familiar with eastern LI or gilgo. His access to a vehicle and his ability to hide his accent is also unknown to me. But he's clearly a very cunning and violent man and I would hope they checked him out regarding this case.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/russian-rambo-loose-brooklyn-double-murder-suspect-elite-soldier-friend-article-1.110824

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2109631/Family-ask-justice-Russian-Rambo-butchered-lover-daughter-Brooklyn.html#axzz2JmPwpUnK

 

[Peter Brendt]

"Mathom" is a word created by Tolkien. He got the idea from the extinct Anglo-Saxon word "mathum", which meant "valuable gift" or "treasure". In Tolkien's version of the word, the idea is that the object is indeed valuable, but it's value is not always immediately obvious. Which is why hobbits hold on to everything, I guess.

(Beowulf was bestowed with mathums after slaying Grendel.)

Okay, literature hour. In "The Hobbit", a mathom is the thing, people gift around all the time. A vase for example, that goes from Aunt A to Sister B to Aunt C ... nobody wants that ugly thing, but since everyone in the chain got it as a gift, you can't just get rid of it.
Which is, why writers stole that term. Basically the book on the beach, the message in a bottle, the dead body, the arm stretch out stylishly over the surf line (preferrably this body is blonde, about 5'7'', cup D and about 20-22 years of age) is the mathom, a generation of writers gave us. They couldn't get rid of it because, you guess it, they got it from the generation before as gift. And so, we use it, some more, some less (I admit, I hadn't a body on the beach yet, but I'm still young, so give me time), and give it to the next generation. You know, they can't get rid of it because ... and thus, said blond bodies, old books, messages in bottles will still populate beaches in fifty years. Mathom, that is how it works. And for reasons of completeness, the blondes on the beach are usually females. Another mathom, we have Poe to thank for, even at his time, nobody even knew the word. :floorlaugh:

 

[Peter Brendt]

I'm wondering if LE ever considered Nikolai Rakossi a possibility. Something set this guy off shortly after the last remains were found leading him to murder his girlfriend and her daughter and get out of dodge. I haven't found anything linking him to prostitutes, burlap or if he was even familiar with eastern LI or gilgo. His access to a vehicle and his ability to hide his accent is also unknown to me. But he's clearly a very cunning and violent man and I would hope they checked him out regarding this case.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/russian-rambo-loose-brooklyn-double-murder-suspect-elite-soldier-friend-article-1.110824

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2109631/Family-ask-justice-Russian-Rambo-butchered-lover-daughter-Brooklyn.html#axzz2JmPwpUnK

Not much to check there. That's not the kind of guy, who builds a trophy garden over years.

 

[PreciousDust]

Okay, literature hour. In "The Hobbit", a mathom is the thing, people gift around all the time. A vase for example, that goes from Aunt A to Sister B to Aunt C ... nobody wants that ugly thing, but since everyone in the chain got it as a gift, you can't just get rid of it.
Which is, why writers stole that term.

It looks, from the link I posted above, that Tolkien altered (as opposed to stole) an Old English term:

As with so many unfamiliar words in his works, he derived it from Old English, in this case the one usually written maðm

Any citations showing that "mathom", as a word, pre-dated Tolkien?

 

[Peter Brendt]

It looks, from the link I posted above, that Tolkien altered (as opposed to stole) an Old English term:



Any citations showing that "mathom", as a word, pre-dated Tolkien?

Unlikely. Especially since he applied his personal humor to it. From something "valuable" it became in the Hobbit something, a family can't get rid of. One has to love that kind of thinking.

 

[Theforeigner]

Not much to check there. That's not the kind of guy, who builds a trophy garden over years.

Ok, and how is that? ... and And how can you be so sure of that?

 

[Peter Brendt]

Ok, and how is that? ... and And how can you be so sure of that?

Because his training formed his mindset. And that is to kill for offensive or for defensive but not for gathering corpses. Look at what this guy did a life long.