Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #7

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  • #281
Are you sure that the defense has to provide discovery in TN in a criminal case? It's only true in civil cases in Texas, or in federal court, and such a law would be rare at best.

In addition, having mutual and simultaneous discovery as you assert, in a criminal trial, would be highly impractical and simply make no sense. How can the defense tell the prosecution what evidence they are going to use to rebut the state's evidence, when they have not yet seen the evidence on which the charges are based? It's simply not possible.

Good morning!

I read it on a Tennessee Law site. I will try to find the link again when I have more time. I have seen the reciprocal rule applied in criminal procedures before though.

A good defense attorney does not wait for discovery from the state to start their own investigation that leads to discovery. They have a very good idea who they should interview even now. These aren't new kids on the block.

There are no surprises in criminal cases. Before it goes to trial both sides must turnover to the other side exactly what evidence/experts/and lay witnesses (discovery) they are going to use in the trial. The state only has to provide evidence (discovery) that is planned to be used at trial along with any exculpatory evidence, if any exists, of course.

While some seem to think this case is taking longer than most it really isn't imo. Cases this egregious with this many serious charges against the defendants often take years to come to trial and if it becomes death penalty cases I have seen those average between 3-4 years after the suspect/s have been arrested.

And this one has had setbacks due to the changing of prosecutors.

IMO
 
  • #282
Good morning!

I read it on a Tennessee Law site. I will try to find the link again when I have more time. I have seen the reciprocal rule applied in criminal procedures before though.

A good defense attorney does not wait for discovery from the state to start their own investigation that leads to discovery. They have a very good idea who they should interview even now. These aren't new kids on the block.

There are no surprises in criminal cases. Before it goes to trial both sides must turnover to the other side exactly what evidence/experts/and lay witnesses (discovery) they are going to use in the trial. The state only has to provide evidence (discovery) that is planned to be used at trial along with any exculpatory evidence, if any exists, of course.

While some seem to think this case is taking longer than most it really isn't imo. Cases this egregious with this many serious charges against the defendants often take years to come to trial and if it becomes death penalty cases I have seen those average between 3-4 years after the suspect/s have been arrested.

And this one has had setbacks due to the changing of prosecutors.

IMO

Morning oceanblueeyes.. Yes, the wheels of Justice turn very slowly in these cases. Once there are arrests made in a high profile case, I find it best to leave the process to jurisprudence and hope for swift justice for the innocent victims..

This may be the link on TN's criminal discovery rule #16 that you are looking for;

Rule 16 - Discovery and Inspection
http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/sites/default/files/docs/craft._discovery_and_inspection.pdf
 
  • #283
I don't think so. Want they are really doing is maneuvering to get around some of the issues presented by their decision to charge DA. By filing new charges for all three, they can get them tried together rather than separately, and that way try to weasel in evidence through the back door that might not otherwise be admissible. For example, the statements made by DA that were the basis of the charges against him would not have been admissible in the trial of the other two, and since DA's statements probably make up most of their evidence, it would have made dismissal of charges against ZA and JA a certainty. DA is an expendable pawn in all of this and they are using him to made up for the deficiencies in the case against the other two.

The other thing that may be achieved is that by dropping the previous charges and going forward with new charges they can restart the countdown for discovery. That would give them more time to dig up evidence and would get around the due process issues created by the failure to comply with earlier discovery requirements.

Essentially what they are doing, IMO, is resetting the clock and wiping the slate clean of all the earlier misteps.


It is all tactical and game playing, much like we seen so much in this case.

JMO
I tend to think this is more closer to the reason that all the charges were redone.

I also wonder if the state has pulled another "take back a plea deal" like they did with the person that died in Florida. I'm wondering if they had some kind of deal with Dylan and now the state is taking it back because they realize his testimony wont be believed by a jury so they may have decided to throw away the deal.

Just speculating but it sure would not surprise me if the state did something like that.

Just hope that whatever evidence the state has is solid enough to prosecute the right people for whatever crimes they did.
 
  • #284
One thing that still bugs me is why the remains were left near a bucket. That is if we assume the reports are true about the bucket being found close by.

It seems like whoever put the remains there would have at least removed the bucket so as to not draw attention to the area. If the bucket was used to transfer her remains to the spot where it was found then why didnt the perp(s) remove the bucket when they left OR hide the skull somewhere not close to it. Something seems so odd about that.

Because it seems that the perp(s) would have to know that a bucket would draw attention to the area.

Just seems so strange to me. Below is one article that talks about the bucket.

"he saw a large bucket in the area of the woods where he was searching for ginseng plants. Stone said he flipped over the bucket, the contents of which he can’t discuss, then felt a cold chill come over his body.

The lifelong hunter then turned around and saw on the ground behind him a human skull and other remains spread across the area."

http://www.scrippsmedia.com/newscha...obo-It-Will-Be-With-Me-Forever-274824611.html
 
  • #285
:seeya: Morning, Y'all !

Regarding the discussion above: "Discovery" by the "defendant," I found the Rules of Criminal Procedure from the TN court's website ...

I hope it is correct and if not, please correct ... TIA !


Rules of Criminal Procedure
Tennessee State Courts


Link to the Rules of Criminal Procedure: http://www.tncourts.gov/courts/court-rules/rules-criminal-procedure


Rule 16: Discovery and Inspection.

(b) Disclosure of Evidence by the Defendant.

(1) Information Subject to Disclosure.

(A) Documents and Tangible Objects. If a defendant requests disclosure under subdivision (a)(1)(F) or (G) of this rule and the state complies, then the defendant shall permit the state, on request, to inspect and copy or photograph books, papers, documents, photographs, tangible objects, or copies or portions of these items if:

(i) the item is within the defendant’s possession, custody, or control; and

(ii) the defendant intends to introduce the item as evidence in the defendant’s case-in-chief at trial.

(B) Reports of Examinations and Tests. If the defendant requests disclosure under subdivision (a)(1)(F) or (G) of this rule and the state complies, the defendant shall permit the state, on request, to inspect and copy or photograph any results or reports of physical or mental examinations and of scientific tests or experiments made in connection with the particular case, or copies thereof, if:

(i) the item is within the defendant’s possession, custody, or control; and

(ii) the defendant intends to introduce the item as evidence in the defendant’s case-in-chief at trial; or

(iii) the defendant intends to call as a witness at trial the person who prepared the report, and the results or reports relate to the witness's testimony.


(2) Information Not Subject to Disclosure. Except as to scientific or medical reports, this subdivision does not authorize the discovery or inspection of:

(A) reports, memoranda, or other internal defense documents made by the defendant or the defendant's attorneys or agents in connection with the investigation or defense of the case; or

(B) a statement made by the defendant to the defendant’s agents or attorneys or statements by actual or prospective state or defense witnesses made to the defendant or the defendant’s agents or attorneys.

(3) Failure to Call Witness. The fact that a witness's name is on a list furnished under this rule is not grounds for comment on a failure to call the witness.


Link to Rule 16: http://www.tncourts.gov/rules/rules-criminal-procedure/16


NOTE: There is more info at this link for Rule 16 regarding Disclosure of Evidence by the State, etc.
 
  • #286
One thing that still bugs me is why the remains were left near a bucket. That is if we assume the reports are true about the bucket being found close by.

It seems like whoever put the remains there would have at least removed the bucket so as to not draw attention to the area. If the bucket was used to transfer her remains to the spot where it was found then why didnt the perp(s) remove the bucket when they left OR hide the skull somewhere not close to it. Something seems so odd about that.

Because it seems that the perp(s) would have to know that a bucket would draw attention to the area.

Just seems so strange to me. Below is one article that talks about the bucket.

"he saw a large bucket in the area of the woods where he was searching for ginseng plants. Stone said he flipped over the bucket, the contents of which he can’t discuss, then felt a cold chill come over his body.

The lifelong hunter then turned around and saw on the ground behind him a human skull and other remains spread across the area."

http://www.scrippsmedia.com/newscha...obo-It-Will-Be-With-Me-Forever-274824611.html

I have also wondered about that. But it went unnoticed for over three years so this makes me think that the wooded areas in that area may be littered with buckets/trash and even people illegally dumping old appliances. Sadly it seems to happen a lot in rural wooded areas. I read quite often about ignorant people using rural privately owned land as their own landfill instead of recycling the items or even paying to take the items to the landfill to be disposed of properly. This area is also known to have those who hunt for the ginseng root from time to time and most likely they would bring a 5 gallon bucket to put their root finds in.

They may just leave the bucket in the woods so they wont have to bring it with them next time. So I honestly don't think anyone would notice a bucket that much unless they came right up on it like the person who discovered Holly's remains. If they saw it from a distance they would just think it was more trash/litter someone left behind. I imagine LE found quite a bit of litter in that area. Some people are just downright trashy and will dump anything out on someone else's property even old mattresses. Uggh.

But I have always felt they put the bucket over the remains to mark the spot where she had been put. In the woods it is hard to tell one area from the next since all the area looks so similar with so many of the same trees/shrubs/bushes that all look the same.

I wouldn't be surprised if they went there on the 4-wheelers after they put her there and did meth and sat on the bucket while doing so. These suspects are far different from even the usual murderers we often see or read about. There is something so sinister and pure evil about all of them. I think every one of them got off on being as cruel and sadistic as they could be. The more they could degrade Holly even in death the happier it made them. True sociopaths who fed off the pain and suffering they had caused.

IMO
 
  • #287
JMO
I tend to think this is more closer to the reason that all the charges were redone.

I also wonder if the state has pulled another "take back a plea deal" like they did with the person that died in Florida. I'm wondering if they had some kind of deal with Dylan and now the state is taking it back because they realize his testimony wont be believed by a jury so they may have decided to throw away the deal.

Just speculating but it sure would not surprise me if the state did something like that.

Just hope that whatever evidence the state has is solid enough to prosecute the right people for whatever crimes they did.

I tend to think there has been no plea deal ever offered to Dylan. He has been charged with rape for sometime now and aggravated rape can get him LWOP.

I think all along LE has suspected Dylan was another main participant in the kidnapping, rapes, and murder and that is why they have said from the start this case is ongoing and the new indictments shows that to be true. It was even mentioned by the prior DA iirc that they expected more charges to be filed.

I always felt more indictments would be forthcoming. I don't think they ever relied on Dylan as much as others seem to think. If he had a plea deal it would be known just like we knew about Shayne Autry's agreement. If it had been null and void Dylan's attorney would be telling everyone just like SAs attorney did.

This prosecutor doesn't have to do a re-indictment to clear the slate. Its just simpler to combine them all together when adding additional charges to the same three defendants. The indictments by the GJ are usually read in court so the charges can be recorded for the record.

When she was recently assigned to the case it restarted the clock then. In fact I haven't read that the Judge has even given this prosecuting attorney a specific date that discovery must be turned over. All Judges that I have seen gives the newly assigned prosecutor ample time to thoroughly go through the case evidence to know exactly what the case files hold and we are talking about 27K pages iirc already in the TBI's files before these three were even arrested.

I think the State has a very solid case and I think all three defendants know it. No one that is truly innocent is willing to waive their constitutional right to a speedy trial, and instead are willing to wait for years by being locked up in jail awaiting trial. If the defendants didn't think the state had the evidence to prove their case they would have jumped at the speedy trial options so they could be acquitted for lack of evidence where they would be free to go on to commit other crimes like they have done in the past.

IMO
 
  • #288
I don't think it is a tactical game she is playing. Once she has been assigned to this case I see no games being played and everything seems to be happening very quickly now. She not only added murder charges on to Dylan Adams but all three are now charged with aggravated rape x3. Each of those are specific charges she knows she has to prove and imo she can.

She would not go back just to set the clock back and add charges she cant prove in a court of law. That is just ridiculous and about as ridiculous as implying any DA can get an indictment as if that is their only goal when they are all fully aware each charge must be proven BARD and supported by evidence.

I don't think this ADA is playing any games. This has always been an ongoing investigation even after the two main culprits were arrested. She/LE have recently uncovered additional evidence that now supports a charge of murder on DA and three specific charges of rape on all three. An ADA can only return to a GJ if he/she has additional evidence in hand to support further charges. Its quite that simple. She now has it in her possession so she returned to get the proper indictments as she should.

They were re-indicted like a lot of other criminals have been when more evidence is uncovered to support the additional charges.

There is nothing supporting the speculation that Dylan Adams' statements makes up most of their evidence. I think that is nothing more than defense spin (wishful thinking) which I have seen repeated ad nauseum over the years by other defense attorneys. I have never seen any ADA, especially one in death penalty cases, put all their evidence in one basket hoping the words of one participant makes it stick. In fact after the trials are over we usually find out the state had even more damaging evidence they could have presented but felt they weren't needed due to the high volume of evidence that was entered or the evidence was ruled too prejudicial.

In almost all of the death penalty cases I have kept up with for over thirty years plus they were chocked full of evidence and more evidence was entered than we see in other cases that weren't death penalty cases. I don't see this case being any different.

I saw nothing said by the Judge that would even lead me to believe he was considering dismissing any charges on anyone. In fact his words said in court showed all of these cases were going forward to trial.

There is no assurance they will all be tried together and just because she got new indictments on all three doesn't mean they will be tried together either. That will be decided by the presiding Judge. I haven't even see this DA mention she wants the cases tried together. I have seen many multiple offenders tied to one case but were tried separately and I have seen one or two tried together and another one went to trial later on. So its no given they will all be tried together although that certainly would save a lot of time and money. Personally, I would like to see them tried together but I am not convinced they will be. I do think ZA & JA should be.

I have no clue what you mean weaseling evidence in through the backdoor although I do see you seem to take pro-defense stance in this case. Nothing gets in without the approval of the presiding Judge.

IMO

Actually, she started playing tactical games as soon as she was appointed. When one of the defense teams objected, she basically claimed that she wasn't going to do anything more until the question was resolved. She would have still been preparing but otherwise stonewalling complying with the courts discovery requirements. That is game playing. There was nothing stopping her from providing the information in the interim, she just didn't do it by invoking a technicality.

She can set the clock back. The way it works is that the old charges are dismissed without prejudice (which happens when a prosecutor drops a charge before the court makes a final resolution on the case). Then new charges are filed and the process starts from scratch again. That appears to be what she has done.

The "new evidence" is probably the statements DA made while cooperating with LE after the case was under way. These were the statements that led to him being charged. Those statements could also be presented to a grand jury as probable cause for the other two, and presto! New charges to replace the old ones. It is just more of the file/dismiss/file strategy the prosecutors have used in the entire case so far. It is just stalling for time.

In my opinion the way it went to was something like this: Initially DA was facing serious unrelated charges, so he decides to try to get a deal by offering to turn over on his brother. Coming up with something plausible wouldn't be hard for him, because, as we all know, rumors about the "A-team" (or whatever) had been flying around for some time, so he just repeated those to LE with some embellishment. LE had heard the stories too, so he was telling them what they wanted to hear. This is what lead to the initial charges. DA himself has credibility issues and would not make a good witness if that was all they had, so they needed something more since DA's claims had not yielded anything physical to support them. Along comes SA, who is also facing serious unrelated charges. He tells LE stuff that apparently corroborates DA, so all looks good to LE and they give him the deal. Only problem is that SA doesn't really know anything and he is selling them a line. But in the course of that he made stuff up that could be verified as not true, not expecting that to make a difference. LE get POed, and threaten to revoke the deal. SA realizes that he has dug a deep hole for himself and through guilt/pressure of it all kills himself.

Now no one corroborates DA, so this is a problem. LE follow wild goose chases after the mythical video, arresting the Pearcy brothers on the slightest of evidence, then release them when it becomes clear they have nothing and the charges would be dismissed by the judge if taken further. So, DA gets pulled in for further interviews so he can come up with a more credible account that jives with what is known otherwise he isn't getting his deal. Knowing that he needs to tell them what they want to hear to get his own deal in place he starts adding details to the story so it would be more useful to LE. It is useful, for sure, because these details implicate DA and he is well and truly in the trap now. So they charge him with rape, expecting to be able to force him to now testify in a useful way to get himself off the hook he put himself on. Only he doesn't. So what do they do now? They have no other evidence short of his initial claims, which were no longer credible, and his new statements can only be used against him due to hearsay rules, not the others unless he testifies against them, which he won't do because he would incriminate himself on his own charges if he did. Unless they come up with a new approach the charges against the other two are going to get dismissed.

The solution to this problem is a sly move: dismiss the charges against the other two and file new charges against all three. This would allow them to be tried together as it is a single crime. His statements can now be introduced in the trial since the hearsay would not apply to them collectively. They no longer need him to testify, his statements now fall under the hearsay exception. It might make for a weak case against the first two, but at least they could get it in front of a jury and hope that emotive argument would win them a conviction.

My question is this: If they really did have additional evidence outside of what DA and SA claimed, why would they have gone to all this trouble, missing deadline after deadline to turn over discovery and a bill of particulars, and engaged in semi-public spats between elements of the LE team over the nature of evidence? It is really simple - if they had clear evidence then all these deals, the hail mary charges against random individuals, the spurious peripheral charges against principals, the stumbling and bumbling, the stalling would be unnecessary. They would simply proceed and comply with normal trial procedure. They would not need to clutch at straws. This is not happening, and IMO it implies that the extent of their evidence in terms of implicating the accused is limited to what DA and SA have claimed, nothing more.

I don't have a pro anything stance. What I want is that the law be followed, justice be done and that the rules of fair play be followed. I want the RIGHT people to go to jail, not a bunch of people who are *probably* or *maybe* the right people. This isn't a game, mistakes have serious consequences, so it absolutely HAS to be right or it shouldn't happen.

In this case you are right, I don't know what all they might have. But, I can only draw conclusions on what we DO know, not what we don't know. So far, all the indications and facts that have appeared point to the case depending on rumors and DA's say so, with little else.
 
  • #289
Morning oceanblueeyes.. Yes, the wheels of Justice turn very slowly in these cases. Once there are arrests made in a high profile case, I find it best to leave the process to jurisprudence and hope for swift justice for the innocent victims..

This may be the link on TN's criminal discovery rule #16 that you are looking for;

Rule 16 - Discovery and Inspection
http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/sites/default/files/docs/craft._discovery_and_inspection.pdf

That is limited to material they intend to produce at trial only, not material they don't intend to produce. The discovery obligations for the prosecution are broader than that, and includes anything that may be material to preparing a defense, provided it is possession of the prosecutor.
 
  • #290
I tend to think there has been no plea deal ever offered to Dylan. He has been charged with rape for sometime now and aggravated rape can get him LWOP.

I think all along LE has suspected Dylan was another main participant in the kidnapping, rapes, and murder and that is why they have said from the start this case is ongoing and the new indictments shows that to be true. It was even mentioned by the prior DA iirc that they expected more charges to be filed.

I always felt more indictments would be forthcoming. I don't think they ever relied on Dylan as much as others seem to think. If he had a plea deal it would be known just like we knew about Shayne Autry's agreement. If it had been null and void Dylan's attorney would be telling everyone just like SAs attorney did.

This prosecutor doesn't have to do a re-indictment to clear the slate. Its just simpler to combine them all together when adding additional charges to the same three defendants. The indictments by the GJ are usually read in court so the charges can be recorded for the record.

When she was recently assigned to the case it restarted the clock then. In fact I haven't read that the Judge has even given this prosecuting attorney a specific date that discovery must be turned over. All Judges that I have seen gives the newly assigned prosecutor ample time to thoroughly go through the case evidence to know exactly what the case files hold and we are talking about 27K pages iirc already in the TBI's files before these three were even arrested.

I think the State has a very solid case and I think all three defendants know it. No one that is truly innocent is willing to waive their constitutional right to a speedy trial, and instead are willing to wait for years by being locked up in jail awaiting trial. If the defendants didn't think the state had the evidence to prove their case they would have jumped at the speedy trial options so they could be acquitted for lack of evidence where they would be free to go on to commit other crimes like they have done in the past.

IMO

The deal he would have received would have been for unrelated charges, not the Holly case. His initial claims would have positioned him as a witness, not as a participant, so he would not have been facing charges initially but would still have been required to talk to them. It was during these subsequent interviews that he implicated himself.

I am guessing that he didn't have lawyer.
 
  • #291
I am not sure re-indicted on the original existing charges is even true nor has it been confirmed either.

Imo, the indictments handed down recently are for additional charges.

Three suspects in Holly Bobo case indicted on new charges

DECATUR COUNTY, Tenn. -- Three men previously charged in the disappearance and death of Holly Bobo now face additional charges in the case, WBBJ 7 Eyewitness News has independently confirmed.

http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/breaking...lly-Bobo-case-face-new-charges-304487611.html
 
  • #292
The deal he would have received would have been for unrelated charges, not the Holly case. His initial claims would have positioned him as a witness, not as a participant, so he would not have been facing charges initially but would still have been required to talk to them. It was during these subsequent interviews that he implicated himself.

I am guessing that he didn't have lawyer.

He did have a lawyer. It was the same attorney that represented him in the gun charges.
 
  • #293
One thing that still bugs me is why the remains were left near a bucket. That is if we assume the reports are true about the bucket being found close by.

It seems like whoever put the remains there would have at least removed the bucket so as to not draw attention to the area. If the bucket was used to transfer her remains to the spot where it was found then why didnt the perp(s) remove the bucket when they left OR hide the skull somewhere not close to it. Something seems so odd about that.

Because it seems that the perp(s) would have to know that a bucket would draw attention to the area.

Just seems so strange to me. Below is one article that talks about the bucket.

"he saw a large bucket in the area of the woods where he was searching for ginseng plants. Stone said he flipped over the bucket, the contents of which he can’t discuss, then felt a cold chill come over his body.

The lifelong hunter then turned around and saw on the ground behind him a human skull and other remains spread across the area."

http://www.scrippsmedia.com/newscha...obo-It-Will-Be-With-Me-Forever-274824611.html

You are right about the bucket being odd to having been left there. Oceanblueeyes brings up a good point about what if the place was littered with things... Wish we knew about that. If it was not littered, then IMO the bucket was purposely left to draw attention so that her remains would be found. If that is the case, then got to wonder why that was done.
 
  • #294
:seeya: Morning, Y'all !


Regarding the discussion above about Dylan, I went back through the previous threads as to when he was charged, what he was charged with, etc.

I hope this helps !


Dylan was charged with "Disposing of Evidence" on 9-17-14:

The TBI said in a statement that John Dylan Adams "disposed of items he knew to be of evidentiary value to the case" on the day that Bobo went missing.

Link: http://www.wsmv.com/story/26569627/t...n-to-bobo-case


Officials from the TBI said they found evidence that 26-year-old John Dylan Adams disposed of evidence on April 13, 2011, the day Bobo went missing.

TBI agents arrested John Adams Wednesday evening without incident. He was booked into the Madison County Jail and held without bond.

Link: http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news...275645241.html

NOTE: Dylan was NOT in jail at the time of this arrest.



Dylan was indicted on 2 Counts of Rape on 10-14-14 :

The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said 26-year-old John Dylan Adams was indicted Tuesday morning by a special Grand Jury in Decatur County on two counts of rape.

On September 17, 2014, Adams allegedly admitted to TBI agents that he was involved in the forcible rape of Holly Bobo on April 13, 2011, the day Holly Bobo went missing from her family's home in Darden.

The TBi said the rape occurred at 235 Adams Lane in Holliday in Decatur County, which is the Adams' family property where agents had searched earlier this year before the arrest of Zach Adams.

Link: http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news...279156481.html



Charges against Dylan for "Destroying Evidence" were Dismissed, "Without Prejudice," on 10-15-14 :

From Jackson Sun:

Some charges against Dylan Adams [and Mark Pearcy] dismissed

Charges being dismissed include evidence tampering and accessory after the fact. Rape charges still active against Dylan Adams.

The charges have been dismissed without prejudice, the release said. This means the state will not pursue the charges that were filed against Dylan Adams and Mark Pearcy in General Sessions Court at the present time. But the state retains the right and discretion to refile any charges against them in the future.

Link: http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news...dams/17316375/



Dylan was indicted for First Degree Murder and Murder in the Perpetration of Aggravated Kidnapping on 5-19-15 :

Shelby County Deputy District Attorney Jennifer Nichols is the special prosecutor in the case. She confirmed that John Dylan Adams was indicted this week on charges of premeditated first-degree murder and murder in the perpetration of the aggravated kidnapping and aggravated rape of Holly Bobo.

Link: http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news...bobo/27679361/
 
  • #295
:seeya:

Some of the links in my post above regarding DA have gone "poof" ...

But this info with links can be found on the following threads:


Thread #5:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-found-deceased-discussion-thread-*Arrests*-5

Thread #6:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-found-deceased-discussion-thread-*Arrests*-6

Thread #7:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-found-deceased-discussion-thread-*Arrests*-7


**When I get time, I will put a list together for ZA and JA just like I did for DA ...

:thinking: Almost forgot: The P brothers and what about SA ?
 
  • #296
You are right about the bucket being odd to having been left there. Oceanblueeyes brings up a good point about what if the place was littered with things... Wish we knew about that. If it was not littered, then IMO the bucket was purposely left to draw attention so that her remains would be found. If that is the case, then got to wonder why that was done.

No offense but I am struggling with the bucket being placed as a way to insure her remains were found.

Who would have wanted her remains to be found but not have called in and reported her burial place?If someone wanted her found and still remain anonymous that could have easily been done over a phone.

Could also have been some type of marker left by the killer(s),a way to transport her remains/items and then just left at the dump site or possibly unrelated to the case......but from what little is known about the discovery the bucket does appear to be related
 
  • #297
One thing that still bugs me is why the remains were left near a bucket. That is if we assume the reports are true about the bucket being found close by.

It seems like whoever put the remains there would have at least removed the bucket so as to not draw attention to the area. If the bucket was used to transfer her remains to the spot where it was found then why didnt the perp(s) remove the bucket when they left OR hide the skull somewhere not close to it. Something seems so odd about that.

Because it seems that the perp(s) would have to know that a bucket would draw attention to the area.

Just seems so strange to me. Below is one article that talks about the bucket.

"he saw a large bucket in the area of the woods where he was searching for ginseng plants. Stone said he flipped over the bucket, the contents of which he can’t discuss, then felt a cold chill come over his body.

The lifelong hunter then turned around and saw on the ground behind him a human skull and other remains spread across the area."

http://www.scrippsmedia.com/newscha...obo-It-Will-Be-With-Me-Forever-274824611.html

BBM ... this part interests me. Apologies if this has been discussed earlier - but why could he not discuss the contents of the bucket? He finds human remains on the ground behind him, but the contents of the bucket are off limits for discussion?
 
  • #298
BBM ... this part interests me. Apologies if this has been discussed earlier - but why could he not discuss the contents of the bucket? He finds human remains on the ground behind him, but the contents of the bucket are off limits for discussion?

I agree. First thought about what was under the bucket would naturally be the skull but he saw that located separately from the bucket. Makes me hope that something containing a video tape was secured under the bucket to keep it out of the weather.
 
  • #299
Most of the death penalty cases that I have seen ended with guilty verdicts showing the trial evidence wasn't weak at all.
That's a major non-sequitor. A guilty verdict could also mean, as the previous poster suggested, that the prosecution is better at getting prosecution-friendly juries in death penalty cases.

Liberals are known to coddle violent criminals and will protest in the streets their execution even for mass murderers who have killed multiple women and children.
Conservatives, on the other hand, have been known to vote guilty in cases with very little evidence and to support lengthy prison sentences for minor crimes. They don't belong on death-penalty juries or on any juries for that matter.
 
  • #300
That's a major non-sequitor. A guilty verdict could also mean, as the previous poster suggested, that the prosecution is better at getting prosecution-friendly juries in death penalty cases.


Conservatives, on the other hand, have been known to vote guilty in cases with very little evidence and to support lengthy prison sentences for minor crimes. They don't belong on death-penalty juries or on any juries for that matter.

While there are always exceptions to the rule, I think that most jurors take their jobs seriously. Most, not all defendants are guilty and the prosecution has enough evidence to convict them. That is why most defendants are convicted. It really isn't a matter of the juror being liberal or conservative.

I would be interested in seeing a link or study that shows where "conservatives...have been known to vote guilty in cases with little evidence and support lengthy prison sentences for minor crimes. They don't belong on death-penalty juries or on any juries for that matter." I worked in the criminal justice field for 37 years and never saw anything like that. Are you suggesting that only liberals should be on capital (death-penalty) case juries?

I will add that I never saw a prospective juror asked if they are liberal or conservative, democrat or republican or anything like that. I'm not sure if that is legal or not. At best, it would be unethical. I know that the prosecution and the defense attorneys have access to prospective jurors criminal records, but that surely doesn't make them liberal or conservative.

Again, I would enjoy reading the link that supports your statements.
 
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