Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #7

[Mercurydime]

Why would the DA seek the Death Penalty if they did not have a lot of solid evidence? Usually they only go for the DP if it is rock solid, imo.

Good point!

 

[SteveS]

Why would the DA seek the Death Penalty if they did not have a lot of solid evidence? Usually they only go for the DP if it is rock solid, imo.

I wouldn't say that's necessarily so. I'm not willing to speculate on the quality of the evidence either way, because we just don't know, but I don't for a second assume that "They asked for the DP!!" tells us anything about the quality of the case (either way).

In my experience, it you want to reach the moon and aren't sure you'll get there, sometimes it's advantageous to shoot for the stars.

And keep in mind that there's no downside at all to the prosecution to ask for the DP.
1 It certainly creates the possibility that they will get the DP. You can't get it if you don't try for it.
2 And it raises the stakes for the defense, creating the possibility of a swap of LWOP for a negotiated guilty plea, or for the jury to eventually compromise on LWOP. Whereas if you don't ask for DP, you've tossed away a bargaining chip for no reason.

In a case of this nature, where someone was murdered in association with a kidnapping, to me the announcement that they will ask for the DP was a foregone conclusion and simply a statement of the obvious. (Lest someone take that the wrong way, I'm not saying it was grandstanding of some sort, as they had to make the decision to do so official.)

 

[Montjoy]

Why would the DA seek the Death Penalty if they did not have a lot of solid evidence? Usually they only go for the DP if it is rock solid, imo.

Seeking the death penalty can make those accused far more likely to strike a deal before a trial.

 

[Bali]

Seeking the death penalty can make those accused far more likely to strike a deal before a trial.

This is exactly right. Also, it is well known in the justice community that seeking a death sentence ups your chances of getting a conviction because of how it alters the make up of the jury. This is not my opinion, studies have backed this up and its a well known strategy for prosecutors. You can't conclude that they have a solid case based on this. They may have diddly squat and are just hoping to scare these guys into pleading out and testifying against the others.

 

[shefner]

I started out in Holly's case as a big talker....Now I'm crushed down to a tiny listener. My heart breaks. I feel weak. I feel sad and perplexed at how this case has played out. Now I just pray that justice will prevail.

Holly...we miss you. You will never be forgotten.

 

[mountainguy777]

Something just doesn't seem right here. never really has. I am wondering if the only evidence is jailhouse blabber from the younger Adams. if you have alot of evidence, you leak out a morsel to make the defense chase and the arrested panic and make plea attempts. I dunno...

 

[Mr. Noatak]

Something just doesn't seem right here. never really has. I am wondering if the only evidence is jailhouse blabber from the younger Adams. if you have alot of evidence, you leak out a morsel to make the defense chase and the arrested panic and make plea attempts. I dunno...

My opinions only, no facts here:

From the movie “They Live”; ‘we have one who can see’.

Yep! There are lots of oddities. I can only barely touch on 1% of them here.

PROLOGUE

As far as I can determine, the Adams’ property was first searched not long after Holly Bobo was kidnapped. Nothing was found at that earliest time, when evidence was very fresh. This means that the investigators had some inklings very early on. BUT, very early on, the investigators also looked at a boatload of other locals and “usual suspects”. According to self-identified local bloggers, there may have even been voluntary DNA and other tests.

THE SET-UP and THE HOOK

There are two key events of note that preceded the 2014 “Wabbit Season” for suspects in the Holly Bobo abduction. First, sometime during Dec. 2013, the future main suspect (older brother) supposedly posted a picture of himself in camouflage on Facebook with the caption “Who am I looking for?” What may have been intended as a cruel joke, definitely came back to haunt the older brother in the following year. I doubt that he was offering a voluntary confession online! I guess that we would have to convince ourselves that he was thinking- dang it!- it is close to the three-year anniversary of me successfully pulling off this crime! This is no good! I am immediately going on Facebook to implicate myself so that I can plead not-guilty when I am arrested next year! The second key event was the announcement of the $250,000 reward on Dec. 16, 2013. An award of this size will definitely bring cockroaches out of the woodwork to make up stories and hoping to get lucky. We are talking about a quarter of a million dollars here.

THE TALE

From my timeline, I gather that there may have been a secondary event, whereby snitches seeking lesser charges provided ‘tips’ to investigators that reignited their attention to the Adams’ property. The FBI sweep of drug dealers on Jan. 28, 2014 netted a bunch of suspects from Tennessee. One or more of those arrested may have made a ‘deal-deal’ (see the movie Kelly’s Heroes about a deal-deal).

On Feb. 6, 2014, the future ‘main suspect’ (older brother) in the Holly Bobo abduction supposedly pointed a gun at his current girlfriend’s head and threatened to gut her with a knife. This led to aggravated assault charges to justify the arrest of the older brother on Feb. 28, 2014, but these charges were later dropped!! My read about this initial arrest is that the authorities wanted to place the older brother ‘on ice’ while they sorted things out. His arrest and jailing coincided with execution of search warrants at his (the Adams) property.

But two things happened between the time of the purported aggravated assault and the arrest of the “main suspect” on Feb. 28, 2014: On Feb. 24, 2014, police pulled over a van and found large quantities of supposedly-stolen fresh-water pearls. On Feb. 26, 2014, officers went to a home to question the residents about the stolen pearls and the future “main suspect” (older brother) met them at the door! It is claimed that the older brother was cooperative, gave pearls to the officers and said that they were stolen.

Around March 4, 2014, the mentally-challenged younger brother (who was in prison for stealing and possessing a gun) was interrogated by authorities and it is likely that he claimed seeing Holly Bobo alive on the Adams’ property after she was kidnapped. He likely implicated his older brother and possibly the ‘big-guy' suspect during this interview. My problem is that the Adams’ family Grandfather (who seems sincere, cooperative, and sharp) LIVES ON THE SAME PROPERTY and apparently saw nothing unusual going on after Holly was kidnapped. The Grandfather is naturally supportive of his younger relatives, BUT also was the first to call the police whenever they got out-of-hand. He could represent a problem for the Prosecution if he did not witness a single anomaly in the days after Holly disappeared.

THE STING

On March 5, 2014, the older brother is additionally formally-charged in the Holly Bobo case. After the older brother was formally-charged in the Holly Bobo case, I predicted on Websleuths that some sort of “jailhouse confession” was forthcoming. Sure enough, around April Fools day of 2014, he supposedly told a cellmate about his younger brother: “he's the one who started this s*** and if he don't shut his mouth he will be in the hole beside her.” Very interesting, but HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM. Holly’s remains were later found at the surface and NOT IN A HOLE. Apparently, at that point in time, the accused expert genius ringleader of the abduction did not even know how the remains were disposed-of.

CIVILIAN CAUSALTIES or FRIENDLY FIRE

Yes, we also developed other names in this case (for awhile). One POI claimed to know where Holly was “buried”- in return for complete immunity from present and past charges- but failed to deliver on his promises (he has since committed suicide). I personally doubt that he was involved in any way with this case, but the Defense can be expected to point to this man as the sole perpetrator. And why not? He seems to be the only person who was mentally-competent at the time AND was consistent and unambiguous about his claims of inside-information. But, I think he is innocent and not involved.

Then we had a woman who claimed to have seen a cell-phone video of Holly after her abduction; this led to the implications of after-the-fact involvement by two other men (also brothers); but I think the police have backed off from this investigative direction and no charges will ever be filed or re-filed. I believe that these two brothers are innocent and uninvolved.

EPILOGUE

It gets weirder from hereon, when you follow the subsequent travails of the mentally-challenged younger brother (one of his relatives says he has the IQ of a ten-year old). The mentally-challenged younger brother may have initially been given immunity for his prison-testimony and briefly released from his prison sentence to witness protection or safe-house as a reward for his testimony of March 4, 2014. It seems to me, that after release, the younger brother then refused to “play-ball”, was re-arrested, variously charged and re-charged, and the rest is history.

So yes, I personally believe that the mentally-challenged younger brother’s testimony has loomed very large in this case; but I am not disavowing that the authorities possess significant forensic evidence. But he did not “play ball” and now is on ice with the other two suspects.

None of the three main suspects turns my crank. The “big-guy” suspect in particular, seems like a whale that was accidentally snared in a dragnet through the ocean. Worse yet, based upon the material-witness description of Holly’s kidnapper, only the mentally-challenged younger brother approximates the physical-profile description of the clever criminal who possessed significant inside knowledge of the minute-by-minute daily activities of the Bobo household and was able to (after ten to fifteen minutes of persuasive arguments) to lead Holly into the woods.

But are the three suspects convictable in my opinion? Yes. Without a high-powered star defense, they may well go down. They may even be guilty. But the case is perplexing and ambiguous. If not, this thread would have died out a long time ago.

Everything above represents my opinions only.

By the way, the Al Kite case on Websleuths is in desperate need of interested investigators. I very recently posted an enhancement of the POI in that case. For some of you, once you read about the case, you will be hooked. It is one of the strangest I have covered.

Sleuth On!

 

[SteveS]

"...who possessed significant inside knowledge of the minute-by-minute daily activities of the Bobo household and was able to (after ten to fifteen minutes of persuasive arguments) to lead Holly into the woods...."

I know this is how you see this case, that the evidence clearly indicates the perp MUST HAVE
1 possessed "significant inside knowledge of the minute-by-minute daily activities of the Bobo household" and
2 known (well enough for her to be willing to have an extended personal conversation), conversed with (based on that prior relationship), and ultimately persuaded Holly to go with him.

But with all due respect, while those ideas are certainly somehow possible, I don't think the evidence objectively compels us in those directions at all ...and in fact, I think an Occam's razor approach takes us to very different conclusions ...with the resulting thought that these above assumptions may tend to lead us AWAY FROM an accurate identification of the perp, rather than towards it.

 

[Bali]

I'm with you there. I agree with everything else Noatak said, but I don't think the person abducting her had to know anything about the goings-on at the Bobo household. Certainly it's a liability for the brother to be inside, which he evidently didn't know. I think he just waited for her that am and grabbed her when he could. I do think they were looking for Holly specifically (as opposed to any pretty girl to rape). But I don't think the killer had to know Holly's schedule or anything.

 

[TedMac]

I'm with you there. I agree with everything else Noatak said, but I don't think the person abducting her had to know anything about the goings-on at the Bobo household. Certainly it's a liability for the brother to be inside, which he evidently didn't know. I think he just waited for her that am and grabbed her when he could. I do think they were looking for Holly specifically (as opposed to any pretty girl to rape). But I don't think the killer had to know Holly's schedule or anything.

I agree with your post, but have a question. Wouldn't the abductor (or abductors) have to know what time Holly was planning to leave and what time her parents would leave also? Wasn't Holly leaving fairly early (8:00 am or close to it) to take an exam at school? He/they would have to have some knowledge of her daily routine to be set up and be ready to nab her. MOO, but I've always believed that they knew approximately what time she left and they knew this by either previously staking out her house or possibly seeing her arrive at her school. If they had staked out the house, they would not only know what time she left, but also that her parents were leaving before her, thus making her vulnerable. They probably weren't aware of the brother, since he wasn't visible early in the morning.

I completely agree that she was singled out as their victim and not picked randomly. Somehow, they had to have knowledge of who she was and where she lived. Hopefully, this will come to light.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

She is just speculating. If they had anything like that they wouldn't be playing games trying to stall handing over discovery in the way they have been doing. It would be an open and shut case, so there would be no point in endangering it with potential legal technicalities. IMO, I don't think there is much or even any forensic evidence implicating the accused.

BBM

Hmmm, I think that is self explanatory and SMM already recognized that when she replied to my post. I am sure she is intelligent and knows that all assumptions and personal opinions about this case are nothing more than speculations. I really don't think she has to be told that by anyone.

Part of her post reply:

if only half of your suppositions are true I sincerely hope that the Bobo family has a strong support system

However; that includes every single one of us doesn't it? We are ALL speculating and that applies to all of us.

I am more than comfortable sticking with my opinion I have held in this case. I have seen all of these things reiterated before when some were just so sure the state didn't have any evidence.

Onto trial and justice will be done.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My opinions only, no facts here:


Then we had a woman who claimed to have seen a cell-phone video of Holly after her abduction; this led to the implications of after-the-fact involvement by two other men (also brothers); but I think the police have backed off from this investigative direction and no charges will ever be filed or re-filed. I believe that these two brothers are innocent and uninvolved.

EPILOGUE

It gets weirder from hereon, when you follow the subsequent travails of the mentally-challenged younger brother (one of his relatives says he has the IQ of a ten-year old). The mentally-challenged younger brother may have initially been given immunity for his prison-testimony and briefly released from his prison sentence to witness protection or safe-house as a reward for his testimony of March 4, 2014. It seems to me, that after release, the younger brother then refused to “play-ball”, was re-arrested, variously charged and re-charged, and the rest is history.

So yes, I personally believe that the mentally-challenged younger brother’s testimony has loomed very large in this case; but I am not disavowing that the authorities possess significant forensic evidence. But he did not “play ball” and now is on ice with the other two suspects.

Sleuth On!

Respectfully snipped for relevance for my post reply.

Unless the relative, who has a vested interest to diminish Dylan's intellect... has certified documentation of his ten year old mentality level.... what is said by them is irrelevant. I seriously doubt the high school would graduate a student who had the IQ of a 10 year old.

Plus if it is documented that he has an IQ lower than 70 his own attorney would have made the Judge fully aware of that when he was brought up on federal gun charges. All of the defendants that I have seen in trials were examined by mental health doctors before a trial or even before they plead down their case and go before the Judge for sentencing. They do this to confirm to the sitting Judge they can fully understand the charges/possible sentences against them and to show they are able to assist their attorney in their own case. There is no evidence his attorney used low IQ or incompetency as a defense showing supporting history to prove it to be true since he was found guilty of the gun charges. By law the defendant must be deemed competent and if a Judge saw an adult before him/her who acted like a 10 year old he/she would appoint a mental health doctor to evaluated him before going any further.

Imo at the time when relatives spoke out they were all trying to be dismissive of the important words Dylan had just told the TBI about what his brother had done to Holly. They knew how damaging it was for ZA, and they, like a lot of families were trying to make excuses to disbelieve him. At one time I even felt sorry for Dylan, and felt while growing up he was only a shadow of his older brother, and it was obvious to me that ZA was the favored son. All of that fleeting sympathy is gone now. He is no better than his brother.

Now he may have dyslexia or some other learning disorder which may make it hard for him to learn but that doesn't ever mean he is like a 10 year old either.

My opinion about Dylan is this has continued to be an ongoing investigation and during all of this time we have never heard any mention of a plea or immunity deal in the works for him. In fact they charged him with rape even back then. I think the TBI has uncovered further evidence that implicates DA as one of the main participants. IMO they were never fooled by Dylan and knew all along he played a leading role in all of these crimes just like JA&ZA did.

The state never intended to offer or accept any plea deal offer concerning either of the three. I posted many moons ago I didn't think there would be any plea deals offered or accepted and still remain firm on that belief today. It was never going to happen and it will not happen in the future. IMO. Not with these three anyway. Others down the food chain? Most likely that will possibly happen.

It wasn't only the woman who said she had seen the video. Dylan also said there was a video. Just because it cant be located doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Did you ever keep up with the Mel Ignato murder case years ago? He was found NG of the rape, torture, and murder of his girlfriend. Another girlfriend testified against him and told the jury she was there when it all happened and he made her make a video of the entire thing. They chose not to believe her because she once had used drugs. No one thought there really was a video. Yet, after he was found NG he sold his grand home later on and was having new carpet put in all of the rooms. The carpet layer ripped up the carpet and had to remove the air vents from the floor and there he found the horrific video showing every single sadistic thing he did to her from beginning to end.

Whether this video in this case is ever found or found after the trials are over.............it exist and the Pearcy brothers knows it does. IMO

IMO

 

[Bali]

>I seriously doubt the high school would graduate a student who had the IQ of a 10 year old.

Do we have any confirmation what level of school he has completed? I haven't seen anything. From what I understand, they do graduate mentally handicapped students. They just have different curriculum and requirements.

Also, unless he's so mentally handicapped that he is non-verbal and just sitting in a corner drooling on himself, it doesn't matter. Prosecutors can and have executed mentally handicapped individuals before and continually fight to to do so. There are many people in prison who have intellectual functioning that low.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

>I seriously doubt the high school would graduate a student who had the IQ of a 10 year old.

Do we have any confirmation what level of school he has completed? I haven't seen anything. From what I understand, they do graduate mentally handicapped students. They just have different curriculum and requirements.

Also, unless he's so mentally handicapped that he is non-verbal and just sitting in a corner drooling on himself, it doesn't matter. Prosecutors can and have executed mentally handicapped individuals before and continually fight to to do so. There are many people in prison who have intellectual functioning that low.

My opinions only, no facts here:

I tend to agree with you about this.

I have a quaint memory from the early 1960's, of a 16-year old, 240 pound boy, crushed into the desk of a 4th-grade classroom. He was FLUNKED from 4th grade the previous year for the umpteenth time (these desks still had holes drilled in the top for inkwells and fountain pens). BUT, regardless of such ancient and curious memories, flunking any public-school student for academic reasons only (not talking about fighting or drug-use) was almost legally-impossible by the earliest 1970's. This does not apply to college-level students, of course, but even colleges are now being pressured to not flunk. Any modern-day concept of flunking pre-college public students for academic performance is an anachronism at best, and a myth at worst.

My favorite thought-experiment is the following: in most states, Albert Einstein would NOT be allowed to teach High-School physics, Sigmund Freud would not be allowed to be any school career-instructor or Psychologist, and Abraham Lincoln would not be hired to teach 8th-grade Social Studies. Why? Because these inexperienced persons lack a "teaching certificate". And I myself, with 30 scientific publications (and a major scientific-writing award), could not qualify as a teacher for a 6th-grade-level technical-writing class. I admit, with some shame, - I also do not possess a 'teaching certificate'. And if I did possess such a certificate, I would immediately flunk the straight-F students, get fired on-the-spot, and be back posting here. Anyway, I hope that I have not been so obtuse that some of you do not get my drift.

Having strayed light-years into the irreverent, I only wish to stay on-topic here. I am still wrestling with the last chapter of my Holly Bobo story- "The Cell Phone Evidence". Do readers here believe that this evidence exists, as un-officially reported?

For any of you who are interested, I made a fairly long (updated and "clue-full") post on the Websleuths' Maura Murray thread tonight.

Everything above represents my opinions only.

 

[OldSteve]

OT, and respectfully snipped-

For any of you who are interested, I made a fairly long (updated and "clue-full") post on the Websleuths' Maura Murray thread tonight.

Here's a link:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...verhill-9-Feb-2004-12&p=11854192#post11854192

 

[Bali]

Something's coming. Nick Beres just posted on FB:

EXCLUSIVE: I've uncovered new developments in the fight to execute Holly Bobo's accused killers! There's been much behind-the-scenes activity since prosecutors announced earlier this month that they will seek the death penalty against the three suspects. The announcement is a game-changer. It alters the strategy for the case by both the defense and the prosecution. What does it all mean? I can tell you the odds of trial happening anytime soon are now very long indeed -- especially with what I've uncovered. The exclusive story tonight on Newschannel 5 at 5 and 6!

 

[ZooSleuth]

Just watched it live. They said there would be more on the news at 6.

Basically, all 3 accused have to have death penalty qualified attorneys, so there will be more delays as they find additional representation. Not sure what further info they will have at 6.

 

[Bali]

Just watched it live. They said there would be more on the news at 6.

Basically, all 3 accused have to have death penalty qualified attorneys, so there will be more delays as they find additional representation. Not sure what further info they will have at 6.

I hope there's more. That's not exactly "breaking news". That's more like "let me tell you about the legal system"

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Prosecutors typically DO NOT seriously or sensibly attempt to bring down three death warrants for one (non-war) crime. Speaking only for myself, it is quite odd that the authorities have not been able to convince at least one of the three suspects in the Holly Bobo case to rat on the two others, in return for a sweet deal that does not involve future execution. I am reminded of the Clifton Hudson, Jr.-murder case, where two of the three suspects were offered NO JAIL TIME, if they testified against the remaining suspect. They refused to cooperate. Why? Now after almost twenty years in prison for this unfortunate trio, we have the answer: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...ased-in-Ohio-after-serving-20-years-in-prison
These three men were ‘usual suspects’. They were easily convictable. It is what it is.

Even though both words are of the same length and syllables, JUSTICE and REVENGE should never be confused with one another. REVENGE is a procedural; a technical exercise, whereby the conveyor belt that extends from the courthouse to the prison is kept full at all times. In contrast, JUSTICE is an intellectual and scientific pursuit, an unemotional search for the truth. REVENGE can never accept an unsolved crime. JUSTICE can accept the situation where a crime is unsolvable at the present time. Some crimes can be perfect; or at least perfect when measured against the methods of investigation.

I will use quotes from the very best episode of Sherlock Holmes (with Jeremy Brett); see if you can spot these snippets: The most trivial detail may speak volumes. And this trivial detail may well be that the kidnapper was unusually familiar with the daily habits and layout of the Bobo household. Our real task is to separate our emotions and theoretical predilections from the facts, regarding this important case. This drama was enacted by the actions of a witnessed lone kidnapper. We must try to determine if this lone kidnapper acted alone or in concert with others. The question which beats in my brain like a hammer is- why this particular day when Holly was leaving earlier than usual to take an important test at College? Yes, she left only five minutes earlier that day, but what is an hour? An hour might have been long enough to kidnap and subsequently hide Holly and then place the Gooch Road evidence. The matter is an easy one: motive, means, and opportunity. Who had a prior history with Holly that would create an emotional motive, an emotional/historical motive so strong that he spent 10-15 minutes pleading and arguing with her before he decided to commit a felonious abduction? Who possessed the means and opportunity to know the layout of the property and the daily habits and potential dangers of its occupants (and dog)?

Sleuth On!

 

[SteveS]

• Who had a prior history with Holly that would create an emotional motive, an emotional/historical motive so strong that he spent 10-15 minutes pleading and arguing with her before he decided to commit a felonious abduction?
• Who possessed the means and opportunity to know the layout of the property and the daily habits and potential dangers of its occupants (and dog)?

I appreciate your contributions, but with all due respect, I don't believe either of these are at all necessarily characteristics of the perp(s) in this case. I don't see the time in the garage as necessarily telling us there was any actual prior history with Holly at all, nor do I see any demonstration of any specialized knowledge of the Bobo family habits.

So imo you are just as likely as not to be theorizing we look for the wrong person(s).