Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #7

[Mercurydime]

I've learned more from this article than any I've read to date. I have to say it still confuses me to no end that after Holly's brother was told my his mother that the man out in the garage with Holly was not Drew and to shoot him, he still does not go outside to help Holly, instead he peeks out the window and watches the man lead Holly into the woods. Afterwards he picks up a weapon and goes outside??? If this information is indeed true, this is very disturbing to me and has always been disturbing.

I think Clint having only been awake one or two minutes was not completely coherent at the time. He had just been awoken by the family dog barking. His mother told him that it was not Drew and to get a gun and shoot him, to which Clint replied "you want me to shoot Drew?" - still being foggy and unable to comprehend the situation.

About ten minutes later, Clint's mind cleared after receiving a second call from his mother, so he went outside with a loaded pistol, but Holly and her abductor were out of sight.

I think I remember some confusion about this matter in earlier threads. My opinion is that Clint simply wasn't fully awake when he was presented with a very confusing set of events. I know that I don't think clearly for the first 10 or 12 minutes of the day, til I have some caffeine and move around some.

But all of that is just my opinion.

 

[lonetraveler]

I think Clint having only been awake one or two minutes was not completely coherent at the time. He had just been awoken by the family dog barking. His mother told him that it was not Drew and to get a gun and shoot him, to which Clint replied "you want me to shoot Drew?" - still being foggy and unable to comprehend the situation.

About ten minutes later, Clint's mind cleared after receiving a second call from his mother, so he went outside with a loaded pistol, but Holly and her abductor were out of sight.

I think I remember some confusion about this matter in earlier threads. My opinion is that Clint simply wasn't fully awake when he was presented with a very confusing set of events. I know that I don't think clearly for the first 10 or 12 minutes of the day, til I have some caffeine and move around some.

But all of that is just my opinion.

Sleepy or not, when your mother tells you it's not Drew, then you need to "run" outside right then to see what the heck is going on, not peek through the blinds and watch someone lead your sister into the woods. This has always been a sore spot for me. At this point he has already seen his sister and this stranger kneeling on the floor of the garage and that Holly is very upset.

 

[coeurfragile]

The Wiki was very informative. Since this case has been going on so long I've forgotten some of the details (unless they were only released on the wiki).

I cannot believe it's only been a year since her remains were found. It seems like an eternity ago.

There's been a lot of setbacks with this case but I hope they're keeping the evidence under wraps for a reason, and they they have enough to nail the perps to the wall. I will be very disappointed if this falls through.

I'm choosing to be optimistic and believe they wouldn't go for the Death Penalty unless they were sure they had the evidence to support it and get a conviction.

Justice for Holly!

 

[Mercurydime]

Sleepy or not, when your mother tells you it's not Drew, then you need to "run" outside right then to see what the heck is going on, not peek through the blinds and watch someone lead your sister into the woods. This has always been a sore spot for me. At this point he has already seen his sister and this stranger kneeling on the floor of the garage and that Holly is very upset.

He thought that it was Drew. He didn't understand what his mother was telling him apparently. Clint believed that either Holly and Drew were breaking up, or that Drew was taking her into the woods to show her a turkey he had killed. Either way, he didn't want to get in the middle of what he believed was going on between them. I'm sure he would turn back the hands of time if he could, but if he simply wasn't clear minded enough to understand that there was a threat to his sisters safety, then the buck stops there. IMO.

According to wsmv news:

"[Clint] has been interrogated for more than 17 hours, strip searched, though the TBI said this has not happened, polygraphed and even hypnotized to find out exactly what he knows and remembers. He also turned over his hard drive and cell phone, yet some outsiders still think he had something to do with the crime.

Clint Bobo said he never felt hated until his sister was abducted. He had never been called a criminal, much less a killer, until his sister disappeared.

'They're warped. In my mind, they're warped,' said Karen Bobo, about those who accuse her son of involvement."


Read more: http://www.wsmv.com/story/22123465/holly-bobos-brother-tells-his-side-of-the-story#ixzz3lee4t34q

and... http://archive.jacksonsun.com/artic...econstruct-time-before-Holly-Bobo-s-abduction

 

[Tugela]

There are some huge problems with this scenario....below are 2 of the biggest

#1.....Why would they choose a time to confront Drew when he was certain to be armed with a rifle or shotgun?

#2.....Turkey hunters wear full camo....often even painting their faces....making it no easy task to walk into the "forest" and find him.Let alone make a positive ID from any distance at all.

So the plan these guys had was to enter the "forest" and confront every hunter they saw until they found Drew who was certain to be armed if they found him.....not to mention since he would be dressed in full camo a good chance he would see them first.

Granted most states have laws you have to display orange while moving when hunting turkeys but thinking these guys entered the woods looking for someone to confront while they were hunting is just too much of a stretch....Them staking out the house and then getting impatient and accosting HB would be much more believable.

I think Holly was strictly the target and he/they were in position around the house when she appeared.....being turkey season would also not attract attention being seen wearing camo ....parking a getaway vehicle along the road would not attract attention either because it would quickly be dismissed as a hunter's vehicle.

Not necessarily, if it was a spur of the moment thing and they were enraged at the time and they were tough guys, they would not have given that too much thought. In a dispute they would want to confront him, not kill him, so weapons or lack thereof would not be an impediment. In this sort of scenario killing someone would not have been the original purpose, it would just have worked out that way as events unfolded and poor choices made.

In most instances when someone gets killed through an act of violence, the intent to kill is rarely there at the start, it just happens as the situation evolves.

I don't agree that Holly was the target, since there is no reason or history to support that. It is far more probable that someone else was the target and she was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[shefner]

I don't see how she could be at the wrong place ( her own home) at the wrong time ( early in the morning leaving for school). After all, this was Holly's normal routine so it seems more likely that she had been watched and was targeted.

The thing that breaks my heart is to realize that she may have been kept alive for several days. Oh that things could have worked out differently! If only someone had been brave enough to come forward....


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[Mercurydime]

Not necessarily, if it was a spur of the moment thing and they were enraged at the time and they were tough guys, they would not have given that too much thought. In a dispute they would want to confront him, not kill him, so weapons or lack thereof would not be an impediment. In this sort of scenario killing someone would not have been the original purpose, it would just have worked out that way as events unfolded and poor choices made.

In most instances when someone gets killed through an act of violence, the intent to kill is rarely there at the start, it just happens as the situation evolves.

I don't agree that Holly was the target, since there is no reason or history to support that. It is far more probable that someone else was the target and she was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Interesting. I sense no real forthright clues alluding to if Holly was the original target or not.

ZA lived 15 miles away in Holladay TN. The abduction process began between 7:30 and 7:40AM.

15 miles of country roads takes what, 20-30 minutes? Then there was some distance between where the perp was alleged to have left the getaway vehicle and the Bobo residence, the time it takes to dress out in full camo, and an unknown amount of time lurking around the Bobo's home.

So, the activities of the perps must have started before what... 6:30am?

I wonder if the suspects were the type of meth addicts that only slept once or twice per week, awake for days on end - to the point of hallucinating and what not, or if they actually woke up at such an hour, got everything together and thought "ok, let's do this".

 

[Chainsaw385]

It is far more probable that someone else was the target and she was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

So being in the carport in the AM at your own home is being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Let me see if I fully understand your theory.
The perps wanted to confront Drew for some reason.....so they decided to go try and find him while he was turkey hunting.It was spur of the moment so the possibility of never finding him or the fact that he would be armed was not an issue......after searching and not finding Drew they decided to check his GF's house and it just so happened they found Holly getting ready to leave for school and decided to kidnap her....and at some point murder her.

I honestly don't think you though about the fact that Drew would be armed during this search for him by the perps and after I pointed this out you defended your position by stating they were not looking for violence..........but somehow it later escalated to kidnapping,possibly rape and murder against someone other then who they were searching for in the first place.

This theory simply does not add up.

Them staking out the house ....getting impatient waiting for Drew to return and then grabbing Holly is much more plausible although it is not what I personally think happened.

Tugela......most criminals are cowards and I agree most think they are tough guys but very,very few would try and seek out a person who is 100% armed and almost 100% going to see them well before they would see Drew.They would have picked a better time to confront him rather then while he was hunting..........no matter how much you disagree no one with any rational thinking is going to agree with you about this "search for Drew while he was hunting" theory.

 

[Mercurydime]

Wow...thank you Mercurydime! I had never watched this news segment with this information. So much is going on in my life that I have missed some more recent news about Holly's case.

Glad to be of service.

:skip:

 

[shefner]

I think about justice for Holly everyday.

 

[Foxfire]

Interesting. I sense no real forthright clues alluding to if Holly was the original target or not.

ZA lived 15 miles away in Holladay TN. The abduction process began between 7:30 and 7:40AM.

15 miles of country roads takes what, 20-30 minutes? Then there was some distance between where the perp was alleged to have left the getaway vehicle and the Bobo residence, the time it takes to dress out in full camo, and an unknown amount of time lurking around the Bobo's home.

So, the activities of the perps must have started before what... 6:30am?

I wonder if the suspects were the type of meth addicts that only slept once or twice per week, awake for days on end - to the point of hallucinating and what not, or if they actually woke up at such an hour, got everything together and thought "ok, let's do this".

The A-Train were likely tweaking before, during, and after the abduction, imo. Holly Bobo's abduction was well planned and executed, imo. I am confident that they had performed preliminary reconnaissance on more than one occasion, observing schedules and daily routines of Holly and the Bobo family, as well as that of local law enforcement.. jmo
Imo, if the Decatur County and Henderson County Sheriff's Department had an established pre-abduction plan in place, there would have been roadblocks initiated within minutes of the 911 calls, and likely a different outcome in this case.. jmo

 

[shefner]

The A-Train were likely tweaking before, during, and after the abduction, imo. Holly Bobo's abduction was well planned and executed, imo. I am confident that they had performed preliminary reconnaissance on more than one occasion, observing schedules and daily routines of Holly and the Bobo family, as well as that of local law enforcement.. jmo
Imo, if the Decatur County and Henderson County Sheriff's Department had an established pre-abduction plan in place, there would have been roadblocks initiated within minutes of the 911 calls, and likely a different outcome in this case.. jmo

Yes, Foxfire! Yes!


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[Suthrnqt]

The A-Train were likely tweaking before, during, and after the abduction, imo. Holly Bobo's abduction was well planned and executed, imo. I am confident that they had performed preliminary reconnaissance on more than one occasion, observing schedules and daily routines of Holly and the Bobo family, as well as that of local law enforcement.. jmo
Imo, if the Decatur County and Henderson County Sheriff's Department had an established pre-abduction plan in place, there would have been roadblocks initiated within minutes of the 911 calls, and likely a different outcome in this case.. jmo

:goodpost: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Tugela]

The A-Train were likely tweaking before, during, and after the abduction, imo. Holly Bobo's abduction was well planned and executed, imo. I am confident that they had performed preliminary reconnaissance on more than one occasion, observing schedules and daily routines of Holly and the Bobo family, as well as that of local law enforcement.. jmo
Imo, if the Decatur County and Henderson County Sheriff's Department had an established pre-abduction plan in place, there would have been roadblocks initiated within minutes of the 911 calls, and likely a different outcome in this case.. jmo

But they have no motivation to target her. They supposedly didn't know her and had no direct connection with her, and lived a fair distance away (meaning they would not have known her incidentally either). Why would they have gone to all that trouble to abduct someone miles away that they didn't know for no apparent reason?

If they were targeting anyone, it was someone else and involves a connection that person is choosing not to share.

 

[Foxfire]

But they have no motivation to target her. They supposedly didn't know her and had no direct connection with her, and lived a fair distance away (meaning they would not have known her incidentally either). Why would they have gone to all that trouble to abduct someone miles away that they didn't know for no apparent reason?

If they were targeting anyone, it was someone else and involves a connection that person is choosing not to share.

<BBM for Focus>

Tugela, although I honor and respect all opinions and theories. I'm at a loss as to why folks continue to introduce conspiracy theories and sleuth completely innocent friends, acquaintances, and family members in the tragic Holly Bobo abduction.. The writing has been on the wall since the early morning hours of 04/13/2011 as to the most likely scenario and motive for the abduction.

RE: No Motive to target Holly;
Tugela, "there is a phrase you hear in addiction circles about meth; meth makes a good guy go bad, and a bad guy even badder. Most sexual predators/serial killers of late that I have researched, more often than not, there seems to be a common denominator of methamphetamine either directly or indirectly. It was not by accident that TBI Director Mark Gwyn compared Holly's abduction to the methamphetamine-related murders by James Christopher Tatrow, back in the 1990s.
<see link below>
Two effects of meth is increased labido, and an extreme unpredictably brazened and violent behavior..
The meth epidemic seems to be creating psychopathic personalities in otherwise normal law abiding citizens.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-from-TN-2014-discussion-2-***ARREST***/page4
TN Senators convened March 11th, 2014 for a judiciary committee hearing to look at several bills aimed at curbing meth use in Tennessee, and TBI Director Mark Gwyn shared some pains of the drug from the front lines of law enforcement. It&#8217;s relevant in this hearing because TBI Director Mark Gwyn said Holly Bobo&#8217;s murder kidnapping case has to do with meth. &#8220;I worked one of the first methamphetamine-related murders back into the 90s, where a guy kidnapped two young men, tortured them for seven days, killed both of them, threw them off into Center Hill Lake,&#8221; Gwyn said. &#8220;Fast-forward to 2014, and I thought in my career that would be the only time I would ever see anything like that.&#8221;

Tugela, we have discussed on many occasions the probability that the perps in this case had many direct and indirect connections to Holly and the Bobo family over the years.. In small rural towns such as Darden/Parsons, TN, everyone knows everyone, or knows of them. I feel that it is obvious as to why the A-Train would travel miles away to abduct an unsuspecting innocent victim; 'jurisdictional linkage blindness'..

http://prtl.uhcl.edu/portal/page/portal/USN/TheSignal/Life?articleId=402
Steven Egger, associate professor of criminology at the University of Houston-Clear Lake, is a nationally recognized expert in serial murder.
Not only is it difficult to figure out why serial killers continue to kill, it is also hard for law enforcement agencies to identify a serial killer due to "linkage blindness," another term coined by Egger, in the 1980s. "Police don't share information across jurisdictional boundaries," Egger said. "There's always some friction there." Agencies prefer to worry only about their own jurisdiction, instead of sharing information to work together to solve a murder. Egger says a serial murder investigation may, but not always, have as many as seven different crime scenes: the place the victim was initially lured, transportation to a different location, the place the victim was kept, transportation to another location, where the victim was killed, where the body was dumped, and where the weapon was dumped.
<snipped>
___________________

Methamphetamine

Profile

Methamphetamine is a highly addictive and very potent central nervous stimulant, also known as "meth," "crystal meth," "ice," and "glass."1 A Schedule II drug, methamphetamine is an extremely powerful amphetamine. The effects are long-lasting, and users have been known to stay awake for days on end during binges; these potent stimulant effects are the reason the drug is often labeled as a "club drug."
http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/meth.asp <snipped>

 

[Foxfire]

Due to known info, indicators, and observations, imo, ZA is a very intelligent and organized violent sadistic sexual predator. He is/was very calculating, creative, deflective, and manipulative, as are many psychopaths. Imo, this was not ZA's first rodeo, nor would it have been his last, if he had escaped justice.. The FBI BAU2 Special Agent/Profilers had checked out of the motel where I was staying prior to checking in during the Easter weekend search. I had a very long and interesting conversation with the motel clerk. Although psychological behavioral profiles are only one tool of many utilized in abduction investigations. Imo, it would have been very beneficial to release the FBI BAU's behavioral profile of the unknown subject/s publicly..

Serial Killers - A Homicide Detective's Take
By Lieutenant Nelson Andreu (Retired)
Miami Police Department
Submitted May, 2005

Contents

Credentials and Interest
Common Knowledge
Genesis of a Serial Killer
Victim Selection
Victim Objectification
Denouement
Case Histories

4. Victim Selection <Sniped & BBM -read more>

Unexpectedly, I have observed that most serial killers never actually find and kill their "dream victim."
Ignoring for a moment the disparity between deviant human and normal feline behavior, a serial killer can be compared to a hungry lion that lies in wait for his favorite meal. It may be the lion knows an impala has the most tender or tasty meat. He waits for an opportunity to kill and eat the impala and in doing so may allow easy but not-so-attractive prey to pass unmolested. In time, hunger pains growing and no impala in sight, the famished lion will settle for an unwary bird that happens by. After devouring the bird, which gives his hunger a brief respite, the lion again has time to savor the taste of an impala, and the cycle begins again.

Like the lion, a serial killer just will not defer acting out his urge to kill simply because his "ideal" victim refuses to materialize at his beck and call. But his reason for settling for something less divulges from that of the lion. There are two basic, interrelated reasons for this disparity. The first centers on the extra caution exercised by a serial killer in his search for a victim; the second, upon the nature of the compulsion that drives him to violence.

 

[OldSteve]

Lots of good reading Firefox - extra thanks!

 

[shefner]

Zach Adams is a study in disfunction. Any man who would shoot his own mama wins the award for "Lowlife."
And yet this same family has protected him, spoken up on his behalf, paid for his defense time and time again, and justifies anything he does.
That entitled atmosphere, coupled with his severe drug addiction and proclivity to crime, has festered a beast.
I have no doubt in my mind that he's guilty of the charges against him in Holly's case.

Some may say that just because ZA is a terrible person does not give us proof that he committed this crime. But we would have to ignore his own brother's testimony. Thank God someone in his family had the courage to be truthful, even if Dylan is also a troubled young man.
The croc shoe print is telling. I pray that the DA has that evidence in hand.

 

[SteveS]

Zach Adams is a study in disfunction. Any man who would shoot his own mama wins the award for "Lowlife."
And yet this same family has protected him, spoken up on his behalf, paid for his defense time and time again, and justifies anything he does.
That entitled atmosphere, coupled with his severe drug addiction and proclivity to crime, has festered a beast.
I have no doubt in my mind that he's guilty of the charges against him in Holly's case.

Some may say that just because ZA is a terrible person does not give us proof that he committed this crime. But we would have to ignore his own brother's testimony. Thank God someone in his family had the courage to be truthful, even if Dylan is also a troubled young man.
The croc shoe print is telling. I pray that the DA has that evidence in hand.

I'm sure ZA is a monster. His life history is strong evidence of that.

But how can a Croc shoe print point to anyone in particular? They are very common shoes. I don't find that evidence (if it even exists) compelling at all, because there are hundreds of millions of Croc shoes sold. A Croc shoe print coulda come from anyone's Crocs.

 

[Mercurydime]

I'm sure ZA is a monster. His life history is strong evidence of that.

But how can a Croc shoe print point to anyone in particular? They are very common shoes. I don't find that evidence (if it even exists) compelling at all, because there are hundreds of millions of Croc shoes sold. A Croc shoe print coulda come from anyone's Crocs.

I wonder why, now that discovery has been turned over to the defense, that the defense has said nothing about it either.

They found Holly's remains, or her skull at least, or so we've heard.

It seems like the defense would be coming out swinging - telling the media that there is no tangible evidence, if that was in fact the case.

JMO