Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #3 ***ARREST***

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean, I think you're right. But I think this is the part that makes it kind of a sticky situation. I guess I'm wondering if the case of immunity could not be presented to the GJ at the same time of the other evidence in order to protect the identity of informant(s) until time for trial. And since the same Judge will rule on both matters, he honor the decision of the GJ on the immunity matter.

“To compel the defendant (the district attorney’s office) to come before the court and present evidence related to its ongoing criminal investigation into the disappearance of Ms. Bobo before charging decisions have been made risks jeopardizing the investigation by prematurely releasing facts or information to the public, persons of interest or other suspects,” the motion said.

I am wondering if Shayne's attorney is not playing CMA by getting it on record that he orchestrated his immunity agreement and that it was violated through no fault of his attorney.

JMO's

It is a confusing issue no doubt jggordo. You could be exactly right since all GJ proceedings are kept confidential. My husband was on grand jury duty just last week and they told him he could be called back anytime during the next 6 months if so needed.

Can a Judge hold a hearing about this matter in his chambers as long as it is on the record? Or have one in the courtroom but seal the courtroom to all outsiders including the press? So that any witnesses and evidence will not be revealed publicly?

The only reservations I have about doing it through a GJ is jurors are there to bring indictments or no bill cases. Since an immunity deal is neither, I just don't know how that would work. Although GJs have been used as investigative tools also.

It seems to me the only one who could null and void the immunity deal would be the presiding Judge and the Judge does not go back in the room with the GJ. Do Judges have to also sign off on immunity deals like they do plea deals when they were given or is that done strictly through the prosecutor's office? I honestly don't know the answer.

In all the years I have kept up with cases I don't think I have ever run across a situation where the DA was wanting to actually rescind an immunity agreement. I have seen them tell the one getting immunity that it will be null and void if they do not testify truthfully come trial time.

IMO

 

[pearl]

It has taken me a good two months to read all the posts 'over there' and to say the least I have sure gotten an education on how forums shouldn't be run.

snipped by me
You certainly have more patience than I do.

 

[ktgirl]

Anyone else see the similarities between the CA Speed Freak Killers; Loren Herzog & Wesley Shermatine Jr.,(1980s), and the A Team's meth/speed fueled rampage against their rural TN community?

Speed Freak Killers
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/partners/speed-freak-killers/an-outraged-community.html

Yep....Thought of the Speed Freak Killers once the second guy was arrested (due to all the meth stuff).

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have been thinking.:floorlaugh:

I believe Austin's attorney is on a fishing expedition.

Imo, he knows his client is going to be arrested eventually.

What better way to get the evidence they have on Austin than for the DA having to say what they have as evidence showing Austin lied.

It gives the attorney a heads up on what the evidence is going to be against his client without having to wait for discovery.

IMO

 

[dog.gone.cute]

:seeya: Morning Y'all !


Checking in to see if there is any action.

Any more :jail: . . .

:doh: Most of them are in :jail: already ...

Also wondering IF the GJ will convene this week ?

:moo:

 

[Suthrnqt]

:seeya: Morning Y'all !


Checking in to see if there is any action.

Any more :jail: . . .

:doh: Most of them are in :jail: already ...

Also wondering IF the GJ will convene this week ?

:moo:

Are there any members of the
A-train not accounted for? Lol I really don't know. :seeya:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Are there any members of the
A-train not accounted for? Lol I really don't know. :seeya:

:seeya: Good question ... not sure of ALL the names, only from what I read over there :facepalm:

Oh wait, I guess the best place to start checking to see if they are all accounted for is on vinelink ... oh, and that other place :facepalm: ...

:moo:

 

[katydid23]

Does 'over there' mean Topix? :waitasec:

 

[Kimster]

Does 'over there' mean Topix? :waitasec:

Yes. Please discuss the "other place" "over there".

:kimsterwink:

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

While there is a lull, you can check out the Case Archive. Everything should be there.
(if not, give me a heads-up please and ty)

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/crankycrankerson/library/Frank%20Bonacci%20%20-PA-#/user/crankycrankerson/library/Holly%20Bobo%20%20-TN-/Justice%20for%20Holly?sort=6&page=1&_suid=139942907457202915784124210098

 

[shefner]

snipped from : http://www.newschannel5.com/story/2...hosen-for-second-suspect-charged-in-bobo-case


Attorney Fletcher Long said Friday that he, along with his Clarksville-based law partner John Herbison, will join Mike Flanagan in defending Jason Wayne Autry.

...

“The more I'm exposed to him, the more impressed I am as to how very innocent he is and how he has been caught up with something that has nothing to do with him,” he said.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BBM: OMG ... for real ? JA is a career criminal, NOT a "choir boy" ! :banghead:

So, JA will have (1) Fletcher (2) Herbison and (3) Flanagan = 3 defense attorneys ...

I wonder how many will be left by the time this trial is over ?

:moo:

:bricks: Apparently its true in the lawyer world too: There's one born every minute.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

From news reports it sounds like there are no discovered remains. Lacking that, one would hope that the sworn depositions are from people of high regard and clean records.

I get the feeling that authorities are waiting on DNA analyses from vehicles, etc. and holding their breath in the meantime.

Sleuth On!

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

One more thing. If you have read it, in my timeline I mention the possibility that the discovered evidence was planted to frame somebody. The Websleuths map at https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa...217,-88.175486&spn=0.007617,0.013057&t=h&z=17 does seem to sort of indirectly implicate one or more of the current suspects. But who is the framer and who is the "framee"?

 

[Tugela]

It is a confusing issue no doubt jggordo. You could be exactly right since all GJ proceedings are kept confidential. My husband was on grand jury duty just last week and they told him he could be called back anytime during the next 6 months if so needed.

Can a Judge hold a hearing about this matter in his chambers as long as it is on the record? Or have one in the courtroom but seal the courtroom to all outsiders including the press? So that any witnesses and evidence will not be revealed publicly?

The only reservations I have about doing it through a GJ is jurors are there to bring indictments or no bill cases. Since an immunity deal is neither, I just don't know how that would work. Although GJs have been used as investigative tools also.

It seems to me the only one who could null and void the immunity deal would be the presiding Judge and the Judge does not go back in the room with the GJ. Do Judges have to also sign off on immunity deals like they do plea deals when they were given or is that done strictly through the prosecutor's office? I honestly don't know the answer.

In all the years I have kept up with cases I don't think I have ever run across a situation where the DA was wanting to actually rescind an immunity agreement. I have seen them tell the one getting immunity that it will be null and void if they do not testify truthfully come trial time.

IMO

The immunity deal was conditional on them finding her remains where he said they would find them, plus some other specifications relating to exactly when the remains got there.

Apparently LE didn't find anything there when they executed their warrants, so he was lying.

The problem for the prosecutor is that they were depending on his account of what happened to be accurate, and the remains would have served to corroborate that. But no remains meant that the deal he received for his other crimes could be viewed at trial as an incentive to lie about what happened to Holly. If his testimony is their primary evidence they will be stuck in a hard place since they have already filed homicide charges in the Bobo case. If they had to drop the charges because of this, double jeopardy would kick in, and they would not be able to recharge even if other evidence appear later.

To solve that problem, they have withdrawn immunity (as they are entitled to do as per the agreement). This left him with no protection on the unrelated charges. Also, since he had provided them with statements concerning what happened Holly, he would be implicated in that and can therefore be charged. They could use his statements against him in trial, which would no longer be compromised by the deal.

To get himself out of this mess and avoid homicide charges he would have to testify for the prosecution, but without the deal on his unrelated charges.

This of course raises an interesting question, if the primary evidence they have is the informers testimony, can they really be sure that he wasn't just telling them what they wanted to hear so he could get out of unrelated charges?

I suspect that they are desperately looking for some sort of solid corroboration in the mean time.

 

[Tugela]

It is my understanding that Clint was inside the house still when they were walking into the woods, looking out the window. When you are about a foot or more above ground level gaging someone's height it is even more difficult to measure.

If you are on ground level most people use their own height as a measure. I don't believe the height or build will be an important factor in the prosecution of these criminals.

In the end I believe over the course of trial they will turn on each other inevitably. We just have to be a little more patient and not all our prayers but some will come true.

JMO's

If the abductor was walking next to his sister, he would have a ready made yardstick since he would have known how tall his sister was. The general dimensions as first described should be reasonably accurate since it would be relative to Holly, whose size is known.

If you were looking at someone walking alone in the distance, you would not be able to accurately estimate their size.

 

[Foxfire]

The immunity deal was conditional on them finding her remains where he said they would find them, plus some other specifications relating to exactly when the remains got there.

Apparently LE didn't find anything there when they executed their warrants, so he was lying.

The problem for the prosecutor is that they were depending on his account of what happened to be accurate, and the remains would have served to corroborate that. But no remains meant that the deal he received for his other crimes could be viewed at trial as an incentive to lie about what happened to Holly. If his testimony is their primary evidence they will be stuck in a hard place since they have already filed homicide charges in the Bobo case. If they had to drop the charges because of this, double jeopardy would kick in, and they would not be able to recharge even if other evidence appear later.

To solve that problem, they have withdrawn immunity (as they are entitled to do as per the agreement). This left him with no protection on the unrelated charges. Also, since he had provided them with statements concerning what happened Holly, he would be implicated in that and can therefore be charged. They could use his statements against him in trial, which would no longer be compromised by the deal.

To get himself out of this mess and avoid homicide charges he would have to testify for the prosecution, but without the deal on his unrelated charges.

This of course raises an interesting question, if the primary evidence they have is the informers testimony, can they really be sure that he wasn't just telling them what they wanted to hear so he could get out of unrelated charges?

I suspect that they are desperately looking for some sort of solid corroboration in the mean time.

Tugela, General McAddams said no body' was found. Technically, this does not mean that other forensics evidence wasn't found during the ZA property search; partial remains, bone fragments, hair, or photos/videos, etc.

This may simply be a legal maneuver by the prosecutor utilizing semantics/legalese, to back out of the full immunity agreement, imo. I can't remember when an alleged conspirator in a kidnapping/murder was given full immunity by the prosecutor Imo, in a crime this heinous in nature. Taking the death penalty off of the table in lieu of LWOP, would have been sufficient to gain his cooperation, imo. This get out of jail free card offered him was entirely too generous, imo..

Double jeopardy wouldn't apply until and unless he was actually prosecuted, imo.

Double Jeopardy - 5th Amendment to the US Constitution
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/double_jeopardy

 

[xlm13]

The problem for the prosecutor is that they were depending on his account of what happened to be accurate, and the remains would have served to corroborate that. But no remains meant that the deal he received for his other crimes could be viewed at trial as an incentive to lie about what happened to Holly. If his testimony is their primary evidence they will be stuck in a hard place since they have already filed homicide charges in the Bobo case. If they had to drop the charges because of this, double jeopardy would kick in, and they would not be able to recharge even if other evidence appear later.

BBM

As I understand it, double jeopardy applies to being tried or convicted for the same crime more than once, not being charged more than once. OTH, the world's a safer place with ZA locked up.

 

[~n/t~]

Tugela, General McAddams said no body' was found. Technically, this does not mean that other forensics evidence wasn't found during the ZA property search; partial remains, bone fragments, hair, or photos/videos, etc.

This may simply be a legal maneuver by the prosecutor to back out of the full immunity agreement, imo. I can't remember when an alleged conspirator in a kidnapping/murder was given full immunity by the prosecutor. Imo, in a crime this heinous in nature. Taking the death penalty off of the table in lieu of LWOP, would have been sufficient to gain his cooperation.

Double jeopardy wouldn't apply until and unless he was actually prosecuted, imo.

Double Jeopardy - 5th Amendment to the US Constitution
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/double_jeopardy

IMO no body includes remains. If they would have found her remains, they would have said so and would not have to go with Austin's immunity deal.

Sadly, they don't have her. No body, no body parts, nothing, IMO.

We don't know what they do have that convinced the Bobos Holly is deceased. They apparently have enough to charge 2 of the three with her murder.

Blood? Would that be enough? IDK

 

[~n/t~]

BBM

As I understand it, double jeopardy applies to being tried or convicted for the same crime more than once, not being charged more than once. OTH, the world's a safer place with ZA locked up.

He can't be prosecuted for the same crime after acquittal or conviction.

Example: Casey Anthony. She was acquitted and can't be charged and tried again for Caley's murder.

 

[Foxfire]

My opinions only, no facts here:

One more thing. If you have read it, in my timeline I mention the possibility that the discovered evidence was planted to frame somebody. The Websleuths map at https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa...217,-88.175486&spn=0.007617,0.013057&t=h&z=17 does seem to sort of indirectly implicate one or more of the current suspects. But who is the framer and who is the "framee"?

Mr. Noatak, I honor and respect your opinion/s, and appreciate your tireless efforts, but disagree that the evidence located during the searches were planted. Although in the Jessica Ridgeway, and other abductions, the planting of evidence was used by the perp to deflect or confuse investigators.

Imo, it is the norm for the perp to discard items of the victim in route to their safe havens. It is also the norm in many abductions for the victim to discard or plant evidence in a hansel & gretel type trail to enhance the chances for a rescue, or enable authorities to prosecute the perp. jmo..