Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #5 ***ARRESTS***

[Mr. Noatak]

Does anyone have a link to this cell ping map?

My opinions only, no facts here:

Since the map was discredited early on, it is generally found in the backwaters. You can view it at: http://wnow.worldnow.com/story/22148708/map-finds-new-evidence-in-holly-bobo-disappearance

At the very top, where the map is curiously snipped off, you can quickly see that the proposed route passes VERY close to where the remains were found.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

For new readers at this thread, my detailed Holly Bobo timeline is at http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...eDiA-amp-TiMeLiNe-only!-*NO-DISCUSSION*/page9 ( posts #215 to 216). Since the address has changed recently (why?), this may be of use to those of you who utilized it in the past but cannot find it now.

 

[Foxfire]

I'm sure that the fact his family was known and respected would have had some effect. It would have to, in such a small community.

But in fairness to the local LE, some who are familiar with the way prosecutions work have said that his various plea deals were all very much in line with normal LE procedure. In other words, ZA may have merely gotten a normal application of how justice and jurisprudence works. In hindsight, it may have looked like some sort of free ride, but maybe it was just the way the system works.

And ultimately, let's recognize that the system is designed to try to get ZA to turn his life around, and no doubt the family wanted the same. IMO we need to keep the blame for what happened to Holly focused on the one(s) who did it, not on those who would have done anything to prevent it imo.

<BBM for Focus>

Yep SteveS, and maybe it was time for someone to step in, cease the enabling, and make a change in the way the justice and jurisprudence system works, by enacting preventive measures, in the name of Public Safety.. Without public safety for our families, friends, and loved ones. We have nothing.. There has been and will be many more positives that were born out of the Holly Bobo tragedy. Imo, the Holly Bobo abduction was the primary catalyst for the virtual unanimous vote by the TN Legislature to pass and enact the Tennessee Governor Haslam's 2012 Public Safety Law...Another positive investigative resource attributed to Holly's abduction in the 2012 Familial DNA Law;

TN Governor Haslam and The University of Tennessee Health Science Center is a proud partner in working with the Governor&#8217;s Public Safety Task Force
http://advocacy.tennessee.edu/tag/governor-haslam/ <Video>

https://news.tn.gov/system/files/PUBLIC SAFETY ACTION PLAN.pdf
Prepared for Governor Haslam
by Subcabinet Working Group
JANUARY 2012

The Subcabinet Working Group held sessions with
stakeholders from across the state gathering
information about various public safety issues.

Early in its deliberations, the subcabinet working group
identified three major challenges and believes that addressing
these challenges aggressively can have a significant impact on
crime in our communities:
&#8722; Drug abuse and trafficking,
&#8722; Violent crime, and
&#8722; The number of repeat offenders.
_______________________________

www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/.../Bill/SB0260.pdf
Tennessee General Assembly - 2012 Familial DNA Law
By Ramsey. AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 38, ... WHEREAS, familial DNA searching is a process used to attempt to identify a close blood relative.

 

[rtjedarling]

I agree. The system is actually encouraging and perpetuating the rise to violent behaviors by some perps and there needs to be methods in place to help recognize and hopefully prevent some of this.

 

[runningwater]

Her brother says he thought it was her and her boyfriend Drew (who was hunting that morning and in camos) having an argument, and he thought Drew was breaking up with her, and she was saying "No! Why?" about the breakup. In her brother's mind that made sense, which is why he didn't go out there to see if she needed help.
WHY???
Why would the first thing he thought of was that Drew was breaking up with her?
How long were they dating? For what reason would Drew break up with her?
Why not Holly breaking up with Drew? What did Clint know, that would make him think of this immediately?
Any one else ponder this question?
TIA

 

[tlcya]

not really runningwater. I haven't. Young people in relationships sometimes break up, argue, get back together, have discord, etc. Perhaps something about the body language or Holly's facial expression seemed to convey stress, worry or that she was unhappy? And since Clint's brain had already made the leap to she and D were having some form of serious conversation in his own mind a reason for those non verbal cues was that they were having a breakup discussion.

The human brain makes connections based on what we see, what we hear and then filters them through what we think we know and our own experiences. Sometimes those connections are not correct.

 

[HoneySugar]

Her brother says he thought it was her and her boyfriend Drew (who was hunting that morning and in camos) having an argument, and he thought Drew was breaking up with her, and she was saying "No! Why?" about the breakup. In her brother's mind that made sense, which is why he didn't go out there to see if she needed help.
WHY???
Why would the first thing he thought of was that Drew was breaking up with her?
How long were they dating? For what reason would Drew break up with her?
Why not Holly breaking up with Drew? What did Clint know, that would make him think of this immediately?
Any one else ponder this question?
TIA

Glad you mentioned this, as I've been wondering this same thing since reading it. I don't know what to make of it-beginning with whether Clint actually said/believed this or whether this was just more erroneous reporting.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Nana46]

I don't know where to post this but....I was reading that some feel the channel 5 out of Nashville report was okay for lack of a better term....not downplaying this or meaning to upset any posters....my take on the interview with the fellow who found the remains.......channel 5 clearly said the fellow said he was asked not to speak to anyone about the remains that were found....I think the TBI wants these clues kept silent as they do not want anything or anyone hindering the case....channel 5 in Nashville did this once before in this case if my memory is correct....sometimes it is not about getting an interview but should be about doing as asked by LE....just my thoughts. Why pursue some for an interview when you clearly know that is not the best thing to do in an ongoing investigation? IMO.

ETA: Meant to add that the fellow who found Karen Swift's body (which is about 7 miles from me) has never spoken about it as far as I know. I don't know that he was asked not to but I presume he was.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Does anyone have a link to this cell ping map?

I didn't save a whole lot since it was discredited, but here is the video that talks about the backroads and the expected route. It has some of the map views.

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...lly Bobo -TN-/MOV03029.mp4.html?sort=6&o=103

Go a few files back or forward for the whole thing I saved.

 

[amberjul]

What kind of brother lets his sister be a victim of what he thought was domestic violence and doesn't at least step outside and check on her? When I was in HS I dated one of my brothers close friends and he was really mean to me verbally and my brother beat him up in the parking lot of our highschool. My brothers would never have let this situation happen the way it did. I'll never understand Holly Bobo's brother's complete lack of action that day. Even if he just thought they were breaking up, it seems incredibly strange to me he didn't go outside and check on his sister especially at the point he sees her walking in the woods with the person! I mean really? You let your sister walk into the woods after your mom calls frantic and don't run out the door and go check on her? Was he on drugs?

I didn't see where Clint thought he was witnessing domestic violence; he did not know about the screams.

It is incredibly frustrating though. Seems Clint got a firm idea in his mind based on what he believed he was seeing, and because he was seeing it (albeit today we know erroneously), even his own mother couldn't dissuade him from the belief.

It seems Clint is possibly stubborn, and perhaps a bit dense. Or at least he was until the day when he believed he saw one thing, while actually seeing something completely different - and not trusting the instincts of his mother.

I would imagine that the grave misunderstandings of that morning continue to haunt the family with "if only." And I imagine also that Clint is today more likely than not stuck between "knowing" what he saw, and being subjected to his own mind being wrong about what he saw; not a good place for anyone to be rendered to.

But yeah - to this day when I read of that morning an incredible amount of frustration overcomes me because of the obvious chasm between Clint's conviction that his mother was overreacting to what he "knew" he was seeing, and his mother knowing that her son was not seeing what he thought he was.

 

[Roselvr]

My opinion is he was sleeping. Holly screamed; which made dog bark; waking brother up. I feel that had he been up; he would have saved Holly. I feel bad for him. He has to live with this

*Posted from cell so was brief

 

[JudyBolton]

I don't know where to post this but....I was reading that some feel the channel 5 out of Nashville report was okay for lack of a better term....not downplaying this or meaning to upset any posters....my take on the interview with the fellow who found the remains.......channel 5 clearly said the fellow said he was asked not to speak to anyone about the remains that were found....I think the TBI wants these clues kept silent as they do not want anything or anyone hindering the case....channel 5 in Nashville did this once before in this case if my memory is correct....sometimes it is not about getting an interview but should be about doing as asked by LE....just my thoughts. Why pursue some for an interview when you clearly know that is not the best thing to do in an ongoing investigation? IMO.

ETA: Meant to add that the fellow who found Karen Swift's body (which is about 7 miles from me) has never spoken about it as far as I know. I don't know that he was asked not to but I presume he was.

BBM - I totally agree! Just think of how we've all seen skilled Defense attorneys turn some tiny misstatement into reasonable doubt. Let's just think - what if the person is interviewed and says, "It was a few yards away from such and such." and then on the stand he says, "It was several feet away." - then they pull out the tape or transcript of the interview (now months ago) and say, "BUT you said YARDS away - now you say FEET away - which is it - are you lying NOW or were you lying THEN???" Before you know it they make the jury think the hunter has planted or tampered with the evidence to the point that - maybe one - can think it's "reasonable doubt".

I know that is an exaggerated example - but I feel that is their motive in trying to stop the interviews and contain the evidence before trial.

JMHO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Her brother says he thought it was her and her boyfriend Drew (who was hunting that morning and in camos) having an argument, and he thought Drew was breaking up with her, and she was saying "No! Why?" about the breakup. In her brother's mind that made sense, which is why he didn't go out there to see if she needed help.
WHY???
Why would the first thing he thought of was that Drew was breaking up with her?
How long were they dating? For what reason would Drew break up with her?
Why not Holly breaking up with Drew? What did Clint know, that would make him think of this immediately?
Any one else ponder this question?
TIA

I have never even thought about it one way or the other. I really think all Clint was trying to do was make sense of the things he saw happening.

Maybe he thought Drew was breaking up with Holly because the man who he mistakenly thought was Drew was talking louder than Holly.

Who really knows but I don't think it means anything one way or the other.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I didn't see where Clint thought he was witnessing domestic violence; he did not know about the screams.

It is incredibly frustrating though. Seems Clint got a firm idea in his mind based on what he believed he was seeing, and because he was seeing it (albeit today we know erroneously), even his own mother couldn't dissuade him from the belief.

It seems Clint is possibly stubborn, and perhaps a bit dense. Or at least he was until the day when he believed he saw one thing, while actually seeing something completely different - and not trusting the instincts of his mother.

I would imagine that the grave misunderstandings of that morning continue to haunt the family with "if only." And I imagine also that Clint is today more likely than not stuck between "knowing" what he saw, and being subjected to his own mind being wrong about what he saw; not a good place for anyone to be rendered to.

But yeah - to this day when I read of that morning an incredible amount of frustration overcomes me because of the obvious chasm between Clint's conviction that his mother was overreacting to what he "knew" he was seeing, and his mother knowing that her son was not seeing what he thought he was.

There is nothing that I have seen that shows me Clint is stubborn or dense. He does seem to be a rather shy quiet guy but then people have said that Holly was also like that around people she didn't know well. He may be a little naïve as well.

I don't fault Clint whatsoever with him believing the way he did. There would be no reason for him to think Holly was being kidnapped before his very eyes. He didn't hear the screams and Holly wasn't being pulled or carried into the woods. So I can see why he believed what he did at the time and Karen wasn't there. Now if Clint had seen and heard Holly kicking and screaming and being carried into the woods that would be entirely different but that was not the case. Unless of course Clint did try to stop the predator and they threatened to kill Holly right there.

Yes, I am sure it will haunt him for the rest of his days but he shouldn't beat himself up about it. He just didn't know what was happening. Had he known he would have acted much differently. Kidnappings like this are still rare so no one is going to immediately jump to conclusions they are witnessing a kidnapping unless the victim is screaming and kicking when trying to get away from her abductor.

Plus I think there are things that Clint has told the police about that day which have not been divulged publically by him or anyone else. I imagine many things we don't know now will come forth at trial when Clint testifies.

Does anyone know if Clint ever got his degree in sociology? He wanted to be a social worker, iirc. Did he quit college in order to search for his sister? If so, once the trials are behind him maybe he can pick up the pieces of his own life.

TIA

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM - I totally agree! Just think of how we've all seen skilled Defense attorneys turn some tiny misstatement into reasonable doubt. Let's just think - what if the person is interviewed and says, "It was a few yards away from such and such." and then on the stand he says, "It was several feet away." - then they pull out the tape or transcript of the interview (now months ago) and say, "BUT you said YARDS away - now you say FEET away - which is it - are you lying NOW or were you lying THEN???" Before you know it they make the jury think the hunter has planted or tampered with the evidence to the point that - maybe one - can think it's "reasonable doubt".

I know that is an exaggerated example - but I feel that is their motive in trying to stop the interviews and contain the evidence before trial.

JMHO

Reasonable doubt in cases like this are very hard to obtain. That is why over 90% of cases end in convictions.

I don't think the hunters will even be an issue.

What is going to really be important is what was found in the SWs of JA and ZAs homes and properties. Plus all the eye witnesses that will testify and I believe their testimonies will line up with the evidence the TBI has collected.

The vast search warrants and what was found by the TBI on both suspects is what got both of them arrested.

And the new DA said the evidence against them is 'voluminous.' I think the defense attorneys already know they are facing an uphill battle. The best they can hope for is if they can talk the jury into sparing their client's life. If they can do that then defense attorneys see that as a win. Although I think they are going to fail in that endeavor as well and both will get the DP.

IMO

 

[Foxfire]

I don't know where to post this but....I was reading that some feel the channel 5 out of Nashville report was okay for lack of a better term....not downplaying this or meaning to upset any posters....my take on the interview with the fellow who found the remains.......channel 5 clearly said the fellow said he was asked not to speak to anyone about the remains that were found....I think the TBI wants these clues kept silent as they do not want anything or anyone hindering the case....channel 5 in Nashville did this once before in this case if my memory is correct....sometimes it is not about getting an interview but should be about doing as asked by LE....just my thoughts. Why pursue some for an interview when you clearly know that is not the best thing to do in an ongoing investigation? IMO.

ETA: Meant to add that the fellow who found Karen Swift's body (which is about 7 miles from me) has never spoken about it as far as I know. I don't know that he was asked not to but I presume he was.

Dyer County man describes finding Swift's body

Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Dyersburg State Gazette
(Photo)
Karen Swift
As the investigation into the murder of Karen Swift enters its first week, one of the men who discovered her body is speaking about the find that could solve this case.
John Robinson, the preacher at Bogota Church of Christ, made the discovery along with his friend, Mark Rickman, on Saturday as they were leaving Bledsoe Cemetery (off Harness Road) around noon.

"At least they can quit looking for her and start looking for somebody," said Robinson.
sniped - read more
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1794468.html

 

[ontheclock]

My opinion is he was sleeping. Holly screamed; which made dog bark; waking brother up. I feel that had he been up; he would have saved Holly. I feel bad for him. He has to live with this

*Posted from cell so was brief

I hope Clint can find some measure of peace. I have a close-age sibling, and it would kill me to be in his shoes. He has been unfairly victimized and speculated on relentlessly IMO.

 

[Mercurydime]

Here's an interesting video from wsmv. It's an interview with CB from 4/30/13 along with a reenactment of the events the morning of the abduction.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a1kaoMW877I

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

(From the psychopath's eyes)

He had known her for all his life. She was a beautiful child. She was even a more beautiful woman. She was the trophy, the epitome of perfection that was ever so slowly escaping from his reality. They were going in two different directions, and he knew that. He only had power and acceptance from his motley bunch, and he knew it. They looked up to him out of sick, perverted fear.
But there was a time (a long time ago) that she and he-- on the same playing field. Literally and figuratively. But that seems like ages ago.
Why is she too good for me now? Who does she think she is?

She always looked like a princess and yet as time went on, she would let him know in a million ways that she was an elusive dream. She barely even remembered him--forgot about the token childhood gifts given to her. He defended her as a young teen unbeknownst to her. She had no loyalty. She did not care.
No one that good or pure would have anything to do with him. But why did she think she was so much better?
Didn't she understand the laws of nature and that of taking what you want? That of the strongest are the ones to survive in the woods?

He wanted her....
cause he had always loved her and yet he hated her for how far apart their worlds had become. Didn't she see he was just as good as anyone else?
Why did she think she was too good?
He wanted to feel her eyes lose their power and see the look of surprise, terror, and eventual surrender.
He would then have the power when he saw "that look" in her eyes.

Just like he saw that many times before. In animals, in other humans, in other women.

He would have the power over her. He would be victorious. And he would always keep a "trophy" of hers.....always.

And if he felt one ounce of remorse......later, he would just get high.

And then brag about things only the devil would approve. And laugh.

all moo....all my hypotheticals...

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

From:http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/new...4/09/09/tbi-skull-found-holly-bobos/15320211/

"Stowe told The Jackson Sun in an interview last week that he and the TBI are still "actively looking" to bring charges against additional people, though they may not be murder charges."

Maybe it is only me, but if you add up all of the suspects and material witnesses/informants and this new threat about charging "additional people", we could be looking at a total of nine or ten people who knew about the crime and may have successfully kept silent for years. Is this possible? What precedents are there for this iron wall of silence?

Lets examine the situation in reverse. If someone disappeared and I immediately claimed that ~ten people were involved before and after the fact, it would be dismissed as a conspiracy theory, because everybody knows that this many people cannot keep a secret for a day after hearing/seeing the story. I worry that with each passing week or month, more names will surface as suspects, POI's, or material witnesses. Are we to believe that Parsons and surrounding towns are in-fact the dystopian communities of myth, legend and popular fiction? That seems to be the theater presented to us by the authorities. I remain at least selectively skeptical about the whole story.

Crimes of passion are very commonly (but not always) committed by one person. If that one person blabs to other people (directly or through the grapevine) the crime is typically solved within days or a few weeks of the "leak".

But in a dystopia, the culture itself ends up on trial, and vast conspiracy is the assumed norm, not the exception. I hope that this case ends up being much simpler than this.

Sleuth On!