HOLLY BOBO on Nashville's Channel Four 4-29-13

[believe09]

The search up until 04/25/2011 was made up of teams of volunteer searchers(ground searchers)and LE/FD/CD. LE/FD/CD officials managed and coordinated the volunteer search teams. A sign in was required but there were no confidentiality agreements required to be signed by the thousands of volunteer searchers, imo.

That is unfortunate imo. In any case, I wonder how those thousands of searchers would feel if their info was released in relationship to Ms Wysocki's group?

I would not be a fan if it were me.

 

[Oriah]

That is unfortunate imo. In any case, I wonder how those thousands of searchers would feel if their info was released in relationship to Ms Wysocki's group?

I would not be a fan if it were me.

Tim Miller and Caylee all over again- then along comes a subpeonia for information that should be (and is) privatized for LE body overseeing the case use only.

Foxfire, do you happen to know if that initial search required a DL# and vehicle reg at the staging area? Or simply a check in with name, number, addy sort of check-in?
Very unfortunate if not- although it happens all the time. People want to help ASAP, and mass confusion ensues. It loses many potential suspects when searches are handled in that fashion.

 

[reedus23]

I made the map when the videos first aired pausing them and attempting to duplicate the best I could. I said that in my original post. It is not "verified" but should be fairly close to that on the video. Foxfire reposted showing how you can get a 3D effect that takes you on the "possible" route.

My next post will be my original post as I don't know how to do multiple quotes.

I have paused, rewound and stopped that video more times than I care to count. I would say that the maps are pretty consistent with what I saw in the video. The only difference I had, was I followed the red line from the Bobo's house north.

 

[Foxfire]

Tim Miller and Caylee all over again- then along comes a subpeonia for information that should be (and is) privatized for LE body overseeing the case use only.

Foxfire, do you happen to know if that initial search required a DL# and vehicle reg at the staging area? Or simply a check in with name, number, addy sort of check-in?
Very unfortunate if not- although it happens all the time. People want to help ASAP, and mass confusion ensues. It loses many potential suspects when searches are handled in that fashion.

Oriah, the outpouring of support of volunteer searchers from age 6 to 70+ years old and from all walks of life was overwhelming. After a few days, there was a minimum age requirement for searching. The procedures evolved over the two week period due to injuries and other issues.

The sign in requirement on the 04/23 & 24/2011 search was a drivers license or state ID with photo. License plate/vehicle descriptions were not required..
Searchers were transported to search areas by bus..

On 04/13/2011, it would be reasonable to conclude that many searchers used POVs. ATVs, etc..

 

[reedus23]

Ms Wysocki's group is the one releasing this information I believe. LE hasnt confirmed the existence of any of it. Honestly, I am not sure what qualifies as new information...I am genuinely confused, although it is wonderful to see the energy exhibited.

How will her group obtain access to the searcher records I wonder? Searchers sign confidentiality agreements and have a reasonable expectation of privacy I would think. I am trying to picture a community town meeting where folks come together claiming to have been searchers to throw ideas on who the perp might be. Kind of like a live action Websleuths I guess.

That has been part of the problem from the get go with this case, just about all information that has been made available is new information (including this most recent information) but the problem is almost none of it is ever confirmed by LE and what LE does confirm or release, they have had a tendency of going back and changing it. Personally, I think much of the recent information is probably pretty accurate simply because it appears to be information from the cell provider, which Bobo or the PI's could go and get. There's no talk of witness interviews etc.

I hope this isn't heading towards mob justice. I just picture everyone bringing their rifle to the town meeting and emotions getting out of control. From reading different places it seems some people have names in mind already of who did it and I fear things getting out of control. Just my thoughts.

 

[reedus23]

On the plus side, there have been private searches that have required confidentiality agreements via LE. So that's something.
There may be a very specific reason that if in fact a suspect vehicle was caught on dash cam, it was not released to the public.

I know how you'll feel about this, but if you think about it- there are many possibilities that if LE identified a possible suspect and or suspect vehicle immediately there may be reasons to keep that info private. Just using these as extreme examples; perhaps the vehicle caught on dash cam was a LE vehicle. Or perhaps a very well known vehicle in the area that might make the abductor change vehicles or plates and/or flee the area in a different vehicle with a live Holly. Perhaps the vehicle was the only vehicle caught on dash cam in a location closest to last ping. Perhaps IDing the person(s) inside the vehicle was more important than the vehicle itself.

Since there was no description of *what* was caught on the dash cam (angle, plate, state, tags, vehicle description, etc) something tells me that a situation as I mentioned above may very well be the case. Mvhoo.

I just want to make sure I'm clear after reading this. Has there been any indication that anything was actually seen on a dash cam? My understanding was that the PI felt that was one thing to check.

 

[Oriah]

I just want to make sure I'm clear after reading this. Has there been any indication that anything was actually seen on a dash cam? My understanding was that the PI felt that was one thing to check.

Not that I'm aware of in MSM or LE, which is why I bolded IF.
If anyone has a link, that would be great- otherwise, I believe it's a theory/possibility. A good one, but a theory just the same (at least according to WSs TOS, I believe.)

 

[Oriah]

Oriah, the outpouring of support of volunteer searchers from age 6 to 70+ years old and from all walks of life was overwhelming. After a few days, there was a minimum age requirement for searching. The procedures evolved over the two week period due to injuries and other issues.

The sign in requirement on the 04/23 & 24/2011 search was a drivers license or state ID with photo. License plate/vehicle descriptions were not required..
Searchers were transported to search areas by bus..

On 04/13/2011, it would be reasonable to conclude that many searchers used POVs. ATVs, etc..

Thanks, Fox.
Very unfortunate, although I understand how it happens. We were once asked to come in on a search after several previous searches had occurred with local LE organizing the community action.

In going over the DL and State ID list, which was in the hundreds and the only requirement for ID, we came across 19 identicals. (I just went back and looked through my files. So that's 38 individuals who either used someone elses' ID, freely gave someone their ID to sub for one they did not have, or had their ID stolen or 'borrowed' and then returned to rightful owner during the process.) And that's not even considering fake ID's.

Quite scary, and one of the reasons why CC's need to be so carefully organized and controlled.

 

[believe09]

That has been part of the problem from the get go with this case, just about all information that has been made available is new information (including this most recent information) but the problem is almost none of it is ever confirmed by LE and what LE does confirm or release, they have had a tendency of going back and changing it. Personally, I think much of the recent information is probably pretty accurate simply because it appears to be information from the cell provider, which Bobo or the PI's could go and get. There's no talk of witness interviews etc.

I hope this isn't heading towards mob justice. I just picture everyone bringing their rifle to the town meeting and emotions getting out of control. From reading different places it seems some people have names in mind already of who did it and I fear things getting out of control. Just my thoughts.

BBM-you and me both. I wonder what the value will be.

I think it is reasonable to accept that the ping records were provided by the Bobo's and I am sure they were. I have my doubts about the rest and the inconsistencies as to sex offender counts and performances etc...idk. I think that we have to be skeptical. jmvho.

 

[reedus23]

Not that I'm aware of in MSM or LE, which is why I bolded IF.
If anyone has a link, that would be great- otherwise, I believe it's a theory/possibility. A good one, but a theory just the same (at least according to WSs TOS, I believe.)

It is a good theory/possibility. Somehow I missed the bold. My apologies, but while I was confident of the answer, I wanted to make sure it was clear.

 

[Foxfire]

On the plus side, there have been private searches that have required confidentiality agreements via LE. So that's something.
There may be a very specific reason that if in fact a suspect vehicle was caught on dash cam, it was not released to the public.

I know how you'll feel about this, but if you think about it- there are many possibilities that if LE identified a possible suspect and or suspect vehicle immediately there may be reasons to keep that info private. Just using these as extreme examples; perhaps the vehicle caught on dash cam was a LE vehicle. Or perhaps a very well known vehicle in the area that might make the abductor change vehicles or plates and/or flee the area in a different vehicle with a live Holly. Perhaps the vehicle was the only vehicle caught on dash cam in a location closest to last ping. Perhaps IDing the person(s) inside the vehicle was more important than the vehicle itself.

Since there was no description of *what* was caught on the dash cam (angle, plate, state, tags, vehicle description, etc) something tells me that a situation as I mentioned above may very well be the case. Mvhoo.

Oriah, I honor your opinion. If you think about it how many other victims has Holly's abductor taken since 04/13/2011? Whether Holly was his first victim or not, predators are recidivist and only cease their deviant behavior when caught.
If the vehicle/abductor was caught on dash cam & this info was not released to the American public by investigators. Imo, this would indicate that their most valuable investigative resource was squandered due to antiquated close to the vest strategies.. The public are the eyes and ears of law enforcement.

Adam Mayes(MS), Brandon Lavergne(LA), Gary Hilton(GA), are only 3 examples of recidivist predators that were identified/located due to a tip from an aware public..

Media management is a critical tool in missing/murder investigations. It has been 750+ days since the last TBI press conference/update in the Holly Bobo investigation.. This lack of communications speaks volumes, imo...

 

[reedus23]

I suppose it's not new information, but assuming the 9:58 ping is accurate, I suppose it confirms that the perp didn't have anywhere (school/work) to be that morning.

 

[Oriah]

It is a good theory/possibility. Somehow I missed the bold. My apologies, but while I was confident of the answer, I wanted to make sure it was clear.

I should have underlined AND bolded!

 

[Foxfire]

Not that I'm aware of in MSM or LE, which is why I bolded IF.
If anyone has a link, that would be great- otherwise, I believe it's a theory/possibility. A good one, but a theory just the same (at least according to WSs TOS, I believe.)

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51871937/#.UZOmwbWG28A
snipped by me..
Holly Bobo's phone pings signal near home hours after abduction


Then, Holly Bobo's phone pinged a GPS signal within a quarter-mile from her home at 9:58 a.m., nearly two hours after she was taken.
"We know at Five Forks at 9:58, there's another ping. The relevance of that is, I believe, there is a police car with a police blockade right there, so we could have dashcam video of who arrived with Holly's phone at 9:58 a.m.," said Mike, a Nashville cyberspecialist and member of the Without Warning team.

 

[believe09]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51871937/#.UZOmwbWG28A
snipped by me..
Holly Bobo's phone pings signal near home hours after abduction


Then, Holly Bobo's phone pinged a GPS signal within a quarter-mile from her home at 9:58 a.m., nearly two hours after she was taken.
"We know at Five Forks at 9:58, there's another ping. The relevance of that is, I believe, there is a police car with a police blockade right there, so we could have dashcam video of who arrived with Holly's phone at 9:58 a.m.," said Mike, a Nashville cyberspecialist and member of the Without Warning team.

Yup-definitely a theory.

 

[wfgodot]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51871937/#.UZOmwbWG28A
snipped by me..
Holly Bobo's phone pings signal near home hours after abduction


Then, Holly Bobo's phone pinged a GPS signal within a quarter-mile from her home at 9:58 a.m., nearly two hours after she was taken.
"We know at Five Forks at 9:58, there's another ping. The relevance of that is, I believe, there is a police car with a police blockade right there, so we could have dashcam video of who arrived with Holly's phone at 9:58 a.m.," said Mike, a Nashville cyberspecialist and member of the Without Warning team.

"Could" being the operative term.

I think it a leap of faith to assume LE has any of this. Of course we assume they do, but really. The first few days were marked by a LE press release stating this was a home invasion (per Clint at least, it wasn't), that Holly was "drug" into the woods (again, Clint: not so), and that, according to the lead agent, Clint and Drew had been cleared (per TBI chief Mark Gwyn: "No one's cleared").

A problem with opaque policing: draws down a storm of criticism whether justified or not. A problem with no arrests after 760 days: calls into question if LE knows what it's doing.

 

[Oriah]

Oriah, I honor your opinion. If you think about it how many other victims has Holly's abductor taken since 04/13/2011? Whether Holly was his first victim or not, predators are recidivist and only cease their deviant behavior when caught.
If the vehicle/abductor was caught on dash cam & this info was not released to the American public by investigators. Imo, this would indicate that their most valuable investigative resource was squandered due to antiquated close to the vest strategies.. The public are the eyes and ears of law enforcement.

Adam Mayes(MS), Brandon Lavergne(LA), Gary Hilton(GA), are only 3 examples of recidivist predators that were identified/located due to a tip from an aware public..

Media management is a critical tool in missing/murder investigations. It has been 750+ days since the last TBI press conference/update in the Holly Bobo investigation.. This lack of communications speaks volumes, imo...

I also understand your position, Foxfire. So many cases ride a win/win/ lose/lose fence when so many jurisdictions and procedures are in place- well, it's simply frustrating.

Despite my repeated devil's advocate position in support of what the TBI, FBI, and local LE has practiced re: media and the general public, I can also appreciate and understand their position of silence (especially in this case.)
That in no way means I do not understand and appreciate the pure frustration and agony both the Bobo's and the community at large are going through as a result of the actions LE has taken re: public release of info. My heart hurts for them all- just the thought of being in such a tightknit community where the local talk is "Could it be him? Him? HIM? Someone FGS TELL us who or what to bolo for!!" must be maddening.

At any rate, I understand, appreciate, and respect both arguments.

On a different note- could we possibly revisit a very old facet of the case...the one where there was discussion (and some MSM links iirc) of Holly being issued an Amber Alert despite her age (19 at the time) as well as NCMEC's listing which requires 'special circumstances' when a legal adult is the missing person?

TIA if anyone wants to dig a bit on this. I think it plays a part in LE's understanding of the situation at that time.

 

[Foxfire]

"Could" being the operative term.

I think it a leap of faith to assume LE has any of this. Of course we assume they do, but really. The first few days were marked by a LE press release stating this was a home invasion (per Clint at least, it wasn't), that Holly was "drug" into the woods (again, Clint: not so), and that, according to the lead agent, Clint and Drew had been cleared (per TBI chief Mark Gwyn: "No one's cleared").

A problem with opaque policing: draws down a storm of criticism whether justified or not. A problem with no arrests after 760 days: calls into question if LE knows what it's doing.

The first press conference PIO/spokesperson was DCSO Sheriff Wyatt on 04/13/2011, where the statement was made that 'crimes like this doesn't happen in small towns like Darden, TN'.
Don't have the link, but I may still have a bruise, from where I fell out of my ez-chair...,
then TBI Agent John Mehrs took the mic, then TBI Agent & PIO Kristen Helms, and last but not least; TBI Director Mark Gwyn. Imo, all four gave conflicting statements, correcting the prior report. But, it was the demeanor of the spokespersons that was very telling.. A downward investigative spiral could be visualized on the horizon..

The motto of the TBI is "that guilt shall not escape, nor innocence suffer"..

 

[Oriah]

Yup-definitely a theory.

Correct. PI's are not LE, although this is MSM. If the team was listed on WS's under verified professional PI's, then that would (I think) be ok to assume the info was verified per WSs TOS. So if we see one of our verified professional PI, LE, or SAR teams post- then maybe we can consider it verified info?
Any mods, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[wfgodot]

On a different note- could we possibly revisit a very old facet of the case...the one where there was discussion (and some MSM links iirc) of Holly being issued an Amber Alert despite her age (19 at the time) as well as NCMEC's listing which requires 'special circumstances' when a legal adult is the missing person?

TIA if anyone wants to dig a bit on this. I think it plays a part in LE's understanding of the situation at that time.

snip!

MSM reports of the issuance of an Amber Alert remain elusive, i.e., I can't find and don't think I have ever found one. (Doesn't mean they're not there; I can be myopic at times.) Some minor media venues report it but it may be a word of mouth, story gets changed with the telling type of thing.