Humpin Hash House Harriers

[JBean]

The pictures are of the mother and stepfather of JAG and members of the Humpin Hash group that they lead.

Thanks Leila. I hope you don't think I am picking on you. :blowkiss: I am just trying to figure out if any of these people are implicated in the crime and/or are there other innocent members in the pictures that are totally unassociated with the crime?

 

[Leila]

The nature of the 'out there' sex life styles, is they're an addiction that keeps needing higher level thrills. Deeper levels of whatever one is into to create the same level of thrill. It becomes highly deviant fairly quickly is my understanding of sexual addiction.

It's quite different than having a regular active sex life with one person, or even serial monogamy.

Google "sex addiction".

It's logical that it would continue to escalate to higher levels. It's like someone who's addicted to drugs or alcohol, as they continue to use drugs or alcohol they need more of it.

I can understand people getting together on a regular basis to participate in a sport they enjoy, and afterward getting together for a barbecue or dinner to socialize and talk about their sport. But what I don't understand is the crude nicknames and sexual aspect of it. Why is that necessary? Or even wanted?

 

[Leila]

Thanks Leila. I hope you don't think I am picking on you. :blowkiss: I am just trying to figure out if any of these people are implicated in the crime and/or are there other innocent members in the pictures that are totally unassociated with the crime?

I would have to say that the people in the pictures are not implicated in the crime, as the lone suspect is JAG. But, what we've been discussing on this thread is the influence of the Humpin Hash, the group that's led by JAG's stepfather. The group is very sexual in nature, with each member being assigned crude sexual nicknames. After they jog, they party and the parties often include some nudity. JAG has attended some of the parties of this group. For someone like JAG, this very well could have influenced his attitude towards woman.

On the day of the December 27th attack, in which the victim identified JAG as her attacker, the group had a planned jog through the very same park where the attack took place and where Chelsea was later murdered. It's unknown if JAG participated with the group that day.

 

[JBean]

I am not going to let the pictures stand at this time. Sorry you guys, but these pictures are not relevant to the case and these are innocent people that went out of their way to remove the pictures.
thanks for understanding.

 

[Curious Me]

I do remember another case where the parents were said to be swingers, which had nothing to do with their missing child. Is there more of a connection here to an open minded sexual running group led by family members and the attack by their son on the same trails they often ran. I think it does relate more to the actual crimes in a couple of ways.

 

[JBean]

I do remember another case where the parents were said to be swingers, which had nothing to do with their missing child. Is there more of a connection here to an open minded sexual running group led by family members and the attack by their son on the same trails they often ran. I think it does relate more to the actual crimes in a couple of ways.

That would be the Van Dam's I presume.

There is no problem discussing the group or their activities and how they may or may not relate to the case.
The issue is posting pictures of innocent people on the internet when they have taken them down to try and keep it from happening.We try and err on the side of caution.
Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[passionflower]

I was wondering if there are other RSO, SO within the group.
Somehow people like that find each other.
Since sex is the main thing within the group did JAG find a best friend
that was exactly like him..........like someone that would 'help'?????
I was thinking of the 'lead' or 'tip'.
Did Jag brag to a body on the run???

 

[passionflower]

http://www.sdh3.com/

interesting to read

 

[passionflower]

for beginners.........what you need for SAN DIEGO ONLY
condoms & duct tape

do we know if duct tape was found with either Amber or Chelsea???
also DNA, would JAG of used a condom and it was found in/on Chelsea's underpants????

http://www.sdh3.com/sdh3/first.html

 

[SuziQ]

I do remember another case where the parents were said to be swingers, which had nothing to do with their missing child. Is there more of a connection here to an open minded sexual running group led by family members and the attack by their son on the same trails they often ran. I think it does relate more to the actual crimes in a couple of ways.

ITA. It blows me away that the parents in this case are parents of a convicted SO and knowing his past participates with their SO son in a group like this. You gotta wonder wth the thought process of the parents were. Definitely helps fill in the picture of that family's dynamics. Jags mom lied to family about Jags past. Did she lie to members of this group as well? Or did they lie through ommission? I think it's horrible if no one in this group was made aware of Jag's issues.

 

[sungrl]

http://www.sdh3.com/

interesting to read

I see Humpin Hash has a run scheduled for this Sunday. I wonder if Dr. Z and Jag's mother will show up?

 

[secretagent]

So far I just got the impression they are a bunch of grown up adults having fun together, possibly swingers, but that's not against the law. What do you mean?

Oh my god, thank you!

 

[RBMom]

This event was on Dec. 27 - the day he attacked the other jogger "CM". I don't believe there would have been a helicopter broadcasting his description. But the attack happened at the same park as this event. So, I am drawing the conclusion that he was there - and was probably there for the event or to at least help.

I live in the neighborhood adjacent to the park and the helicopter did broadcast not only his physical description but also what he was wearing. It seemed like it went on for a couple hours. I also feel like I need to defend the Hash here. I used to run with them years ago and yes, they drink after runs and yes they often craft risque names for each other, but it was a fun, totally harmless, group of people. Back then there was no Humpin' Hash so I can't speak for this particular group, the others were fine...San Diego HHH, La Jolla HHH, Full Moon HHH, etc.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

I live in the neighborhood adjacent to the park and the helicopter did broadcast not only his physical description but also what he was wearing. It seemed like it went on for a couple hours. I also feel like I need to defend the Hash here. I used to run with them years ago and yes, they drink after runs and yes they often craft risque names for each other, but it was a fun, totally harmless, group of people. Back then there was no Humpin' Hash so I can't speak for this particular group, the others were fine...San Diego HHH, La Jolla HHH, Full Moon HHH, etc.

Thank you RBMom for the information on the helicopter. Very helpful.

I wanted to clarify something:

I think I speak for most, if not all, of the people posting here when I clarify that WE ARE NOT STATING THAT THE TYPES OF THINGS WE ARE DESCRIBING THAT TOOK PLACE IN THE PICTURES WE HAVE SEEN ONLINE OCCUR IN ANY OTHER HASH GROUP THROUGHOUT SAN DIEGO OR BEYOND. WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING IS THE ACTIONS OF THIS PARTICULAR GROUP (AND ONLY THIS GROUP) THAT JAG AND HIS PARENTS WERE ASSOCIATED WITH AND HOW THOSE ACTIONS MAY HAVE AFFECTED AND INFLUENCED JAG. (Sorry, I just want everyone who reads here to know that.)

The photos that I viewed OF THIS PARTICULAR GROUP showed group sexual activities, nudity, naked games, pictures of dogs with their faces near naked genitalia, naked women tied up with ropes, naked women on their knees with their arms behind their back drinking out of cups on the ground and some other activities that I can’t describe here that I have heard about taking place in extreme movies (and that is just what was seen in the pictures, who knows what went on after the camera man/woman stopped taking pictures!) In my opinion, this group definitely perpetuate the line of thinking that women are mere sex objects around for sexual gratification only. I think we can also surmise that since the group was very free in their sharing of pictures of the above mentioned activities online, etc. that the activities and actions of this particular group probably were not hidden from JAG. JAG's stepfather has been a member of the group since 2000 so I can assume JAG has been aware of and around this group and their activities for a number of years.

 

[Leila]

I do remember another case where the parents were said to be swingers, which had nothing to do with their missing child. Is there more of a connection here to an open minded sexual running group led by family members and the attack by their son on the same trails they often ran. I think it does relate more to the actual crimes in a couple of ways.

I agree!

As an example........lets say a couple has a 17 almost 18 year old son and he's driving a family car. He comes home one Friday night after being out with friends and he's clearly been drinking (and driving). The parents read him the riot act about the dangers of alcohol, take away the keys to the car and ground him for 2 weeks.

The very next night the parents host their weekly get-together with friends to play cards. Everyone has a at least a few drinks during course of the evening and by the wee hours of the morning as everyone is saying their goodbyes and leaving, it's clear that several of the parent's friends are more than just a little bit tipsy.

The son observes this and sees that his parents aren't reading the riot act to their friends about the dangers of alcohol or confiscating their car keys. He sees the hypocricy in this, that he's being punished for doing the same thing his parents and their friends are doing. After his parents go to sleep, he sneaks a beer out of the refrigerator, thinking "if they can drink, so can I."

JAG is a RSO, having served time in prison for violently molesting a 13-year-old child. His stepfather is the leader of a group of people who jog and then party afterward, and their parties sometimes involve nudity and sexual innuendo. The members of the group have sexually suggestive nicknames.

To allow JAG to participate in this group's activities exposed him to the very thing that he was punished for. He's see's his parent's friends playfully exposing themselves, or patting someone's bare behind, or other such behavior. To the members of the group, this is playful innuendo, but JAG may take what he observes differently. He doesn't see anyone getting angry if someone grabs them, so it must be okay and acceptable. He may be aroused by what he sees.

 

[Leila]

ITA. It blows me away that the parents in this case are parents of a convicted SO and knowing his past participates with their SO son in a group like this. You gotta wonder wth the thought process of the parents were. Definitely helps fill in the picture of that family's dynamics. Jags mom lied to family about Jags past. Did she lie to members of this group as well? Or did they lie through ommission? I think it's horrible if no one in this group was made aware of Jag's issues.

The male relative that was interviewed on John and Ken's radio program carefully chose his words when he was asked about this. He alluded to a problem with JAG's mother. From what the relative stated, it sounds like the extended family was told something different than what we now know about the 2000 case. It was downplayed to the point of saying that the 13-year-old girl went after JAG, then said she was raped, and then recanted.

The mother probably didn't want to acknowledge that her son had a serious problem. If that's the case, I doubt that anyone in the group knew that JAG was a RSO. Lying through omission.

 

[Mick]

It's logical that it would continue to escalate to higher levels. It's like someone who's addicted to drugs or alcohol, as they continue to use drugs or alcohol they need more of it.

I can understand people getting together on a regular basis to participate in a sport they enjoy, and afterward getting together for a barbecue or dinner to socialize and talk about their sport. But what I don't understand is the crude nicknames and sexual aspect of it. Why is that necessary? Or even wanted?

The crude nicknames and sexual aspect is what makes me wonder if this was a special offshoot group that focuses on the sexual and the running is a cover and way to draw new 'candidates' into the group.

 

[Leila]

Thank you RBMom for the information on the helicopter. Very helpful.

I wanted to clarify something:

I think I speak for most, if not all, of the people posting here when I clarify that WE ARE NOT STATING THAT THE TYPES OF THINGS WE ARE DESCRIBING THAT TOOK PLACE IN THE PICTURES WE HAVE SEEN ONLINE OCCUR IN ANY OTHER HASH GROUP THROUGHOUT SAN DIEGO OR BEYOND. WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING IS THE ACTIONS OF THIS PARTICULAR GROUP (AND ONLY THIS GROUP) THAT JAG AND HIS PARENTS WERE ASSOCIATED WITH AND HOW THOSE ACTIONS MAY HAVE AFFECTED AND INFLUENCED JAG. (Sorry, I just want everyone who reads here to know that.)

The photos that I viewed OF THIS PARTICULAR GROUP showed group sexual activities, nudity, naked games, pictures of dogs with their faces near naked genitalia, naked women tied up with ropes, naked women on their knees with their arms behind their back drinking out of cups on the ground and some other activities that I can’t describe here that I have heard about taking place in extreme movies (and that is just what was seen in the pictures, who knows what went on after the camera man/woman stopped taking pictures!) In my opinion, this group definitely perpetuate the line of thinking that women are mere sex objects around for sexual gratification only. I think we can also surmise that since the group was very free in their sharing of pictures of the above mentioned activities online, etc. that the activities and actions of this particular group probably were not hidden from JAG. JAG's stepfather has been a member of the group since 2000 so I can assume JAG has been aware of and around this group and their activities for a number of years.

Well stated! What we've seen in the pictures is shocking enough, and we don't know what happened after the person taking the pictures stopped taking them. I've also seen some blogs by the group, now deleted, that relate some of their sexual activities. One tells about a jog that the police responded to because of a report of a naked orgy. The author dismissed that by saying "is there any other kind of orgy?"

 

[Voice4theSilent]

Well stated! What we've seen in the pictures is shocking enough, and we don't know what happened after the person taking the pictures stopped taking them. I've also seen some blogs by the group, now deleted, that relate some of their sexual activities. One tells about a jog that the police responded to because of a report of a naked orgy. The author dismissed that by saying "is there any other kind of orgy?"

Thank you Leila. I saw the same post on that blog.

I want to add that if JAG wasn't involved with this group I would care less what they do; "to each his/her own". (I do care that some of these activities occured at a campground where families I know frequent with their small children....but that is off topic, I know.)

I would not be surprised if this particular group had more than one run in with the police due to their behavior in public places (nudity, drinking, etc.)

 

[SoCalSleuth]

JAG's step-father, wrote of the December attack in the group's newsletter. http://www.sdnn.com/sandiego/2010-0...tails-reveal-that-john-gardner-fathered-twins