I am so Angry

[marrigotti]

Yes. To most of us. With at least one notable exception:

Well, how does that excuse the local and state level?

 

[concernedperson]

You have to understand the mindset which is difficult at best. Politicians have always confused the population of Louisiana since Huey Long. They are distrustful and antagonistic of anyone who is not in their core group. Being lied to is normal, trusting doesn't come easy. So, they return to their core for the best answer even though that may not be the best answer.

If that FEMA fellow told me to do something right now there would be no way in hell. I have watched a lot of tv, all day and night, and read everything in MSM and I know what a nincompoop he is.

 

[JBean]

FEMA knew in June 2004 that the city would likely flood and that many people would not for whatever reason evacuate. I assume they also knew of the poverty level. They made a whole plan for that area, but from what I can see, that plan wasn't implemented too well.

More than FEMA, the city and state levels, who should provide the first line of defense for it's citizens, should have had a plan to implement. Either they had one and they didn't follow it, or the one they had was lousy.
the local level has GOT to provide for itself while waiting for federal help.
Just like I have my own little personal kit while waiting for help; it's not enough, but it will hold me until I can get more help.
It is the same for the state waiting for the feds.

 

[Dara]

That is true; however, the city and state's plan wasn't implemented too well either. Looks to me like things fell apart from top to bottom.

Or bottom to top to bottom to top. I want to know.

My immediate concern is that if this or any major disaster happens in two days in another state, the mayor and governor are going to be different. Should we have to hope that they can handle a federal disaster, because they damn well better be? Because the president won't step in until it's way past time. Because FEMA is less well-informed about crises than the average citizen?

What we should have is a federal government that can handle a disaster in case the state and local government can't. Why even declare a federal emergency if the federal government has no responsibility?

Hold everyone accountable at every level. But realize that the federal government MUST step in when the state and local government can't or doesn't. The failures of those below them do NOT give them an excuse to let people die.

Honestly, someone last night suggested that troops didn't come in because Blanco and Bush got into a pissing match and he was a gentleman and respected her office. Are you processing that? The poster was saying Bush let aid be delayed because he was being nice. And that was ok with that poster. I don't know if that's true. I hope it's not. But if it is, no it's not ok.

 

[concernedperson]

Yes. To most of us. With at least one notable exception:

Most of the last 30 years the funds requested for levee reinforcement have been denied. Or if some were approved it was too little and just a courtesy to avoid future contention.

 

[Details]

But that's what disasters are all about.. Everything you mentioned is a foreseeable event in a disaster. It's all about planning..Thats what city and state safety planners are hired to do. I cannot even tell you how upset my sister is about this because she knows in her heart that the local level could have done much much more, because that's what she does, prepares for diasters on the city and state level. Her work with FEMA is secondary to having her areas covered, while waiting for FEMA. She told me she has to have her area in a position to sustain, for 72 hours as best she can... period ...that's her job.

I'm fine with the idea that they didn't do a good job - but still, FEMA's stance seems a cop-out - they should respond as fast as they can, and when people are dying of thirst, they should do all they can to get them water - not finger point, and keep water trucks out of the city.

I mean, two problems with the 72 hour thing - first, the disaster planning may have been insufficient or poorly executed. Second, the disaster may do unforseen damage - as in an asteroid strike. Just because that's the city's ideal and planned time to be able to stand on their own doesn't give FEMA any excuse for dragging it's feet.

 

[Dara]

More than FEMA, the city and state levels, who should provide the first line of defense for it's citizens, should have had a plan to implement. Either they had one and they didn't follow it, or the one they had was lousy.
the local level has GOT to provide for itself while waiting for federal help.
Just like I have my own little personal kit while waiting for help; it's not enough, but it will hold me until I can get more help.
It is the same for the state waiting for the feds.

How long is too long?

At what point is FEMA responsible?

When they say they are? Five days? Six days? A week? In a federal emergency, why does the federal government get a pass not to save lives?

At what point is the president responsible? Is he ever? When?

What about if it becomes evident that the state and local government can't handle things? Is it ok for the federal government not to do all they can just because someone else is supposed to exhaust their resources first and it is supposed to take 3 days, and if it happens sooner, tough?

 

[marrigotti]

Or bottom to top to bottom to top. I want to know.

My immediate concern is that if this or any major disaster happens in two days in another state, the mayor and governor are going to be different. Should we have to hope that they can handle a federal disaster, because they damn well better be? Because the president won't step in until it's way past time. Because FEMA is less well-informed about crises than the average citizen?

What we should have is a federal government that can handle a disaster in case the state and local government can't. Why even declare a federal emergency if the federal government has no responsibility?

Hold everyone accountable at every level. But realize that the federal government MUST step in when the state and local government can't or doesn't. The failures of those below them do NOT give them an excuse to let people die.

Honestly, someone last night suggested that troops didn't come in because Blanco and Bush got into a pissing match and he was a gentleman and respected her office. Are you processing that? The poster was saying Bush let aid be delayed because he was being nice. And that was ok with that poster. I don't know if that's true. I hope it's not. But if it is, no it's not ok.

Well, my immediate concern is the failure at all levels. I am waiting to hear excuses at the local and state levels, not just the federal level. I am by no means defending the actions of the federal government (it was appalling), but I object to overlooking all links in the chain and focusing only on the federal fiasco.

 

[Details]

It's difficult to look at all the links in the chain now (and a failure of this size must involve failures at many levels) - as many of the people with the information are still hard at work and in crisis mode. That's why I'm not too ready to go over those failures - things failed down there, but finding out where is hard.

 

[less0305]

My sister has been a disaster planner for big cities her entire adult career. She said this is basic rule of thumb stuff. All her cities were able to self sustain for 72 hours or she wasn't doing her job. It's all about advance planning.


ETA: maybe disasters don't follow rules , but one can have a pretty good idea what to expect.

I think people who do work in municipal or county government probably know this information whereas people who have no working knowledge of municipal or county government don't understand this. I've been planned to death in my years in city government. We have a plan for clipping our fingernails (LOL - that's being overdramatic, I know). But we went through a tornado with deaths...and a flood. We've lived it. It's good to have plans based on your particular logistics and geographics. A city below sea level should have an exemplary flood evacuation plan, whereas we have less hurricane likelihood we have excellent tornado plans, as I'm sure San Francisco concentrates heavily on earthquake plans.

 

[marrigotti]

It's difficult to look at all the links in the chain now (and a failure of this size must involve failures at many levels) - as many of the people with the information are still hard at work and in crisis mode. That's why I'm not too ready to go over those failures - things failed down there, but finding out where is hard.

I expect that we will hear all about it in due time. I hope that the focus will be on safety and preparedness failures and not degenerate into political fodder.

 

[Dara]

Well, my immediate concern is the failure at all levels. I am waiting to hear excuses at the local and state levels, not just the federal level.

Excuses. Yeah. I really want the answers. I hope it's not all excuses, but I fear we'll hear excuses. More excuses (See Michael Brown).

I am by no means defending the actions of the federal government (it was appalling), but I object to overlooking all links in the chain and focusing only on the federal fiasco.

Do you also object to those overlooking the federal fiasco and focusing only on the state and local government?

I figure people don't post on everything about which they have an opinion. Just because someone is most interested in the mayor's role, for example, and perhaps posts only about that, doesn't mean they have no other opinion. They might or might not, but I don't think you can accurately know the full spectrum of someone's beliefs about this tragedy from their collection of posts here. Though it's hard not to make assumptions sometimes.

 

[marrigotti]

Excuses. Yeah. I really want the answers. I hope it's not all excuses, but I fear we'll hear excuses. More excuses (See Michael Brown).

Do you also object to those overlooking the federal fiasco and focusing only on the state and local government?

I figure people don't post on everything about which they have an opinion. Just because someone is most interested in the mayor's role, for example, and perhaps posts only about that, doesn't mean they have no other opinion. They might or might not, but I don't think you can accurately know the full spectrum of someone's beliefs about this tragedy from their collection of posts here. Though it's hard not to make assumptions sometimes.

I believe, as I stated earlier, than in order to get the true picture, all levels of government need to be scrutinized.

 

[JBean]

I'm fine with the idea that they didn't do a good job - but still, FEMA's stance seems a cop-out - they should respond as fast as they can, and when people are dying of thirst, they should do all they can to get them water - not finger point, and keep water trucks out of the city.

I mean, two problems with the 72 hour thing - first, the disaster planning may have been insufficient or poorly executed. Second, the disaster may do unforseen damage - as in an asteroid strike. Just because that's the city's ideal and planned time to be able to stand on their own doesn't give FEMA any excuse for dragging it's feet.

I agree 100% in that no one should be excused for dragging their feet. There is no good reason that time shouldn't be of the essence.
But I will also add that each and everyone of us should find out what our city/state plan is for a disaster. I live in EQ territory. Up until last week I just assumed that my state was covered with a good plan to save as much human life as possible. But now I realize that i do not really know if that is true. Do my city and state officials prioritize disaster plans? Do we have adequate funds to cover the worst possble scenario?
Bottom line is I need to know what the plan in my area is so i will have a good idea if i can last the 72 hours that I may need to in order to wait for FEMA

 

[Dara]

I believe, as I stated earlier, than in order to get the true picture, all levels of government need to be scrutinized.

That's slightly different from the question I asked, but ok. I've said the same thing you have in different words. I've said everyone at every level needs to be held accountable. Guess we agree. Nothing to object to.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I agree 100% in that no one should be excused for dragging their feet. There is no good reason that time shouldn't be of the essence.
But I will also add that each and everyone of us should find out what our city/state plan is for a disaster. I live in EQ territory. Up until last week I just assumed that my state was covered with a good plan to save as much human life as possible. But now I realize that i do not really know if that is true. Do my city and state officials prioritize disaster plans? Do we have adequate funds to cover the worst possble scenario?
Bottom line is I need to know what the plan in my area is so i will have a good idea if i can last the 72 hours that I may need to in order to wait for FEMA

Very well said. And in this situation, you would have had a few days to be getting things together, (meds, etc.) My daughter has diabetes, and a chronic condition that requires a special diet. I always have to think ahead about her insulin, etc. My heart truly hurts hearing about the stories of diabetics without insulin for days. I personally know how sick they can get in just that amount of time. Her special diet can go out the window, but she will become sick for quite some time. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

 

[JBean]

Very well said. And in this situation, you would have had a few days to be getting things together, (meds, etc.) My daughter has diabetes, and a chronic condition that requires a special diet. I always have to think ahead about her insulin, etc. My heart truly hurts hearing about the stories of diabetics without insulin for days. I personally know how sick they can get in just that amount of time. Her special diet can go out the window, but she will become sick for quite some time. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Hey DD..you have had some great posts BTW.
I think we need to hold every level accountable..even individuals at a personal level.
Take your daughter for example. It's not specifically FEMA's job in the beginning to know that your daughter has special needs. It just makes sense for YOU to know and ,make sure you plan the best you can in case of emergency. Make sure that YOU are prepared in the short term, so that FEMA help can be optimal in the long term. If you are prepered maybe other levels of aid will be available to those who are not as prepared as you.
Govt will do what it can but we are our our own first line of defense.We have to be alive for them to be able to help!

 

[concernedperson]

Well, after a tragedy we can all look at our situation. After 9-11 I went out and bought huge bottles of water. Eventually, I drank them all. I would and have done a lot of the preparation when I was in hurricane alley.

I left New Orleans years ago because I always new this was a possibility and I knew no matter what attempts were made they were going to fall on deaf ears.If the Corps of Engineers made a recommendation it was squashed as soon as it hit the legislature. Politics always got in the way of people, period.

Nagin, for instance, is a young (IMO) executive way over his head and probably not schooled in the old ways. Just thought he could make a difference. If I am wrong later I will certainly admit it. But he tried and he wasn't apprised of all the facts. I heard his emotion and that goes a long way with me.

Kathleen Blanco, I have known for a long time as well as her husband, Ray. I think she was overcome which doesn't excuse her in the least but I think she was manipulated as well. That is another story that has to be told. She is holding some ground but if it is political I don't have a lot of sympathy. If it is heartfelt and trying to make the citizens rise above and get the needs that they deserve, then I will watch her backside.

So, in essence I am waiting for the big picture. But that FEMA guy is an idiot and I watched this unfold and there is not an excuse for not dropping bottles of water on the expressway which was not involved with looters. That was happening in the inner city not on I-10.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Hey DD..you have had some great posts BTW.
I think we need to hold every level accountable..even individuals at a personal level.
Take your daughter for example. It's not specifically FEMA's job in the beginning to know that your daughter has special needs. It just makes sense for YOU to know and ,make sure you plan the best you can in case of emergency. Make sure that YOU are prepared in the short term, so that FEMA help can be optimal in the long term. If you are prepered maybe other levels of aid will be available to those who are not as prepared as you.
Govt will do what it can but we are our our own first line of defense.We have to be alive for them to be able to help!

You are right, it isn't FEMA's job. It just isn't. It's not our state's or even city's, either. And, hey, I have to count on my daughter herself as being self-sufficient in regards to her conditions, as she can't count on mommy to be there 100% of the time. (And as a teenager, she's old enough to know.)

 

[JBean]

You are right, it isn't FEMA's job. It just isn't. It's not our state's or even city's, either. And, hey, I have to count on my daughter herself as being self-sufficient in regards to her conditions, as she can't count on mommy to be there 100% of the time. (And as a teenager, she's old enough to know.)

I guess what I am saying is it goes up the ladder. We cannot do it all in an emergency, we will all need aid of some sort.
First your daughter must know how to care for herself
then you as a parent will pick up the slack.
Next we need our city to help provide
Then State
Then FEMA
Point being the stronger and more competent each level is the greater chance we will survive. But the more people that are able and ready on a personal level the greater chance we will succeed at a city, state and national level.