I am so Angry

[bulletgirl2002]

Yes, and it appears you are wise and are level-headed! You need to run for office, LOL

Hell, I'd get drunk at some important function and cuss someone out...lol. Wouldn' t do for me to be in the public eye.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Hell, I'd get drunk at some important function and cuss someone out...lol. Wouldn' t do for me to be in the public eye.

LOL, it'd probably get you elected!

 

[Dara]

The intelligent people will see through it. I'm not so sure about the others...

So, let's just get this captured for the future. Intelligent people will see through the "blame the feds," which means you believe state and local goverment is to blame.

Do you also believe that the "blame the state and local govenrment" strategy is something that intelligent people will see through? Do you feel you've sifted through all of this and know where the blame lies and none of it falls on the federal government?

I am just trying to clarify what you think the intelligent people should be seeing through and taking on face value at this point.

 

[TexMex]

That may be true. And if so, hold every single one of them accountable. But the "blame the feds" didn't start out as an orchestrated PR effort. Nagin was screaming for help. Even if it's his fault that he needed it, he needed it and it was far too late in coming. Blame him if he's at fault, but it was a federal emergency and the feds didn't know there was unrest days after we did. Listen to Aaron Broussard and tell me that's PR. Well, maybe you can. But I don't see PR. I see frustration and grief from someone who feels--rightly or wrongly--that his federal government let him down. That's not slick PR.

State and local government surely made errors. But they didn't both send and not send buses. They didn't both ask for and refuse troops. It's the conflicting information that has me waiting to see if their complaints about the feds have merit, or have limited merit.

But I know the federal government failed, because I've heard from Chertoff and Brown that they did. They don't use those words, but they didn't know what anyone with a remote and a few brain cells did. I know Bush failed because he could have sent in troops and didn't, even days after we all knew how dire the situation was.

So, the feds are to blame. Perhaps more than we already know. As for the rest, I don't know yet.

Yes, we know you blame Bush. And if he had sent in troops when the Gov asked him to give her 24 hours---you'd blame him for imposing martial law over the state's objections. Just admit that Bush cannot even tie his shoes right as far as you are concerned. He's damned if he does- damned if he doesn't----but the local officials responsible for their population? Them you "just don't know yet"?!!! That makes no sense.

 

[tybee204]

I dont care who is sitting in the Oval Office. I would have the same questions and anger if it was George W Bush, Bill Clinton, John Kerry or whomever. If you are angry just because its George Bush its partisan. If you are defending when you may not defend if it were another in Office its Partisan.

Each person needs to ask themselves why they have taken their position and then question if it is about the Disaster in Louisiana or your politics. If its about the Politics , we have a forum for that.

 

[Dara]

Yes, we know you blame Bush. And if he had sent in troops when the Gov asked him to give her 24 hours---you'd blame him for imposing martial law over the state's objections.

No, I actually wouldn't. Don't let me interrupt your assumptions, so you keep believing that. But it's not true.

Just admit that Bush cannot even tie his shoes right as far as you are concerned.

I don't know if he can tie his shoes or not. I've agreed with some decisions he's made and disagreed with many more. But I don't need to run those down in a forum about his mishandling of this disaster. Remember that? The hurricane? Or are you joining the club that wants to focus on me and assign me an agenda I don't have? I'm flattered that some of you would rather talk about me, but it's kind of silly.

He's damned if he does- damned if he doesn't----but the local officials responsible for their population? Them you "just don't know yet"?!!! That makes no sense.

It should. I am talking about specific actions. Bush is at fault for not taking action when he should have. He should have sent in troops. People were dying, among other things. I know that. I know he appointed Brown. Brown. Gah.

What I don't know is how culpable Blanco and Nagin are and for what . What they specifically did and didn't do. If I'd listened to some here, I'd think Bush had no right to send in troops. That wasn't true. I would think Blanco never declared a state of emergency. If she hadn't, that would be a big error and I would blame her for it. But what she did or didn't do wrong is not clear. Same with Nagin. I don't know. What seems to be emerging is big issues with evacuation, but again, we're getting conflicting reports about what they are. I can keep saying hold them accountable for what they did wrong once we know what it is, but some people seem to not get that.

 

[TexMex]

No, I actually wouldn't. Don't let me interrupt your assumptions, so you keep believing that. But it's not true.

I don't know if he can tie his shoes or not. I've agreed with some decisions he's made and disagreed with many more. But I don't need to run those down in a forum about his mishandling of this disaster. Remember that? The hurricane? Or are you joining the club that wants to focus on me and assign me an agenda I don't have? I'm flattered that some of you would rather talk about me, but it's kind of silly.
It should. I am talking about specific actions. Bush is at fault for not taking action when he should have. He should have sent in troops. People were dying, among other things. I know that. I know he appointed Brown. Brown. Gah.

What I don't know is how culpable Blanco and Nagin are and for what . What they specifically did and didn't do. If I'd listened to some here, I'd think Bush had no right to send in troops. That wasn't true. I would think Blanco never declared a state of emergency. If she hadn't, that would be a big error and I would blame her for it. But what she did or didn't do wrong is not clear. Same with Nagin. I don't know. What seems to be emerging is big issues with evacuation, but again, we're getting conflicting reports about what they are. I can keep saying hold them accountable for what they did wrong once we know what it is, but some people seem to not get that.

Your hatred if Bush is very evident. You buy into everything bad anybody has said about him (no matter their motives) yet the mayor, gov, parish, state,police emergency officials who have the job of evacuation/safety of the citizens of New Orleans it's 'too soon' or 'just don't know'. Double standard IMO

The people I saw at the Astrodome and the families our church is helping don't blame the president--they know the risks of living on the coast and feel
the city should have been better prepared to house those who could not/ would not evacuate.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Your hatred if Bush is very evident. You buy into everything bad anybody has said about him (no matter their motives) yet the mayor, gov, parish, state,police emergency officials who have the job of evacuation/safety of the citizens of New Orleans it's 'too soon' or 'just don't know'. Double standard IMO

The people I saw at the Astrodome and the families our church is helping don't blame the president--they know the risks of living on the coast and feel
the city should have been better prepared to house those who could not/ would not evacuate.

Hi Tex,

Since you've now witnessed the people at the Astrodome and the families at your church, so you have some first hand information...how are they doing? Did they evacuate when the evacuation was called for, or ? Thanks!

 

[tybee204]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4214516.stm

Viewpoint: Has Katrina saved US media?
By Matt Wells
BBC News, Los Angeles





But unlike Watergate, "Katrinagate" was public service journalism ruthlessly exposing the truth on a live and continuous basis.

Instead of secretive "Deep Throat" meetings in car-parks, cameras captured the immediate reality of what was happening at the New Orleans Convention Center, making a mockery of the stalling and excuses being put forward by those in power.

Amidst the horror, American broadcast journalism just might have grown its spine back, thanks to Katrina. ...

But last week the complacency stopped, and the moral indignation against inadequate government began to flow, from slick anchors who spend most of their time glued to desks in New York and Washington.


The most spectacular example came last Friday night on Fox News, the cable network that has become the darling of the Republican heartland.

This highly successful Murdoch-owned station sets itself up in opposition to the "mainstream liberal media elite".

But with the sick and the dying forced to sit in their own excrement behind him in New Orleans, its early-evening anchor Shepard Smith declared civil war against the studio-driven notion that the biggest problem was still stopping the looters.

Much more at link.

 

[Dara]

Your hatred if Bush is very evident. You buy into everything bad anybody has said about him (no matter their motives)

What? Look, you really need to calm down. That is an unfounded claim. And it's getting tired.

yet the mayor, gov, parish, state,police emergency officials who have the job of evacuation/safety of the citizens of New Orleans it's 'too soon' or 'just don't know'. Double standard IMO

Actually, no. But if you believe that, fine. What part of "they need to be held accountable for what they did wrong" don't you understand? What part of "there are conflicting stories so I am unclear about who did what wrong on a state and local level" is confusing?

There are no conflicting stories about the president sending in troops. He didn't.

There are conflicting stories about why he may not have, but that doesn't change his responsbility. He should have. He didn't. People died.

The people I saw at the Astrodome and the families our church is helping don't blame the president--they know the risks of living on the coast and feel the city should have been better prepared to house those who could not/ would not evacuate.

And a lot do blame the president. We all should. He has the ultimate responsiblity and could have sent troops. If you want to blame only local government and not the president, you really might want to think about why and read up on what the president's job is.

I don't actually think I've ever blamed Bush for the evacuation or for the first day or so (except for budgetary stuff, etc). But after a certain point, it was his call, and he didn't make it. And if you're going to go on and on about how terrible state and local government responded, that is MORE reason he should have taken over.

 

[TexMex]

Hi Tex,

Since you've now witnessed the people at the Astrodome and the families at your church, so you have some first hand information...how are they doing? Did they evacuate when the evacuation was called for, or ? Thanks!

Yes....the families I met through the church left on Sat or Sun. They are lifetime residents of the Gulf Coast and know the devastation a Cat 4 or 5 cane will bring.

The folks at the Astrodome were so thankful to have AC and a shower!
They did not evacuate. Some because they had nowhere to go, some feared leaving their home/property/pets. Some said they'd made it through Betsy
and they'd make it through Katrina. They were told to take at least two days worth of food and water with them to the superdome and expect hot/crowded
conditions. They blame the mayor for not having generators, food, police, water, doctors and medication stockpiled at the S-dome. Some wondered why
the city didn't bus them to the Dome--then have more buses take them to Lake Charles, Baton Rouge, Lafayette etc so if the levees gave in they wouldn't be stranded in the flooding. Once at the Dome city officials just left them, provided them no protection from lunatic gang members with firearms determined to prey on innocent evacuees. These people are still in shock and it's hard to believe that they have no house, car, job or property.

 

[BirdieBoo]

Look, Whomever is to blame, OTHER POSTERS are not the ones to at fault here. This is not a forum to put down other posters, or speculate on what they "would" do in any given hypothetical situation. Other posters are not the topic of this thread, the topic is that there was a failure in America, and we the people of America are angry. Sniping at other posters doesn't help anybody, and if you're unfamiliar with the rules here at WS, personal attacks on other posters are against the rules.

When things get out of hand, threads get locked. I'd like to have a forum for open discussion on this matter, so please do not attack other posters, so the thread does not get locked.

Thanks.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Yes....the families I met through the church left on Sat or Sun. They are lifetime residents of the Gulf Coast and know the devastation a Cat 4 or 5 cane will bring.

The folks at the Astrodome were so thankful to have AC and a shower!
They did not evacuate. Some because they had nowhere to go, some feared leaving their home/property/pets. Some said they'd made it through Betsy
and they'd make it through Katrina. They were told to take at least two days worth of food and water with them to the superdome and expect hot/crowded
conditions. They blame the mayor for not having generators, food, police, water, doctors and medication stockpiled at the S-dome. Some wondered why
the city didn't bus them to the Dome--then have more buses take them to Lake Charles, Baton Rouge, Lafayette etc so if the levees gave in they wouldn't be stranded in the flooding. Once at the Dome city officials just left them, provided them no protection from lunatic gang members with firearms determined to prey on innocent evacuees. These people are still in shock and it's hard to believe that they have no house, car, job or property.

Wow, Tex. I'm sure just dealing with these people could be a eye-opening or life-changing event for even those helping them. My hat is off to you! :woohoo: The real reality of no home, no important papers, no pictures for history, no cherished relics, no job to go to, loss of just a daily routine - it's gotta come to them in just waves....my heart just hurts for so many.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

And a lot do blame the president. We all should. He has the ultimate responsiblity and could have sent troops. If you want to blame only local government and not the president, you really might want to think about why and read up on what the president's job is.

This was a natural disaster.
People were going to die whether or not "Bush" got help in there or not.
Not everyone was going to be instantly saved or found because houses were flooded to the top.
People die instantly in almost every hurricane. You can't blame that on a person.

I personally don't like to be told that I should have to blame anyone, and I think it's wrong of you to post that we ALL should blame anyone.
I would try to keep your opinions like that to yourself and not generalize them for everyone.

 

[lilpony]

This was a natural disaster.
People were going to die whether or not "Bush" got help in there or not.
Not everyone was going to be instantly saved or found because houses were flooded to the top.
People die instantly in almost every hurricane. You can't blame that on a person.

I personally don't like to be told that I should have to blame anyone, and I think it's wrong of you to post that we ALL should blame anyone.
I would try to keep your opinions like that to yourself and not generalize them for everyone.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[TexMex]

Look, Whomever is to blame, OTHER POSTERS are not the ones to at fault here. This is not a forum to put down other posters, or speculate on what they "would" do in any given hypothetical situation. Other posters are not the topic of this thread, the topic is that there was a failure in America, and we the people of America are angry. Sniping at other posters doesn't help anybody, and if you're unfamiliar with the rules here at WS, personal attacks on other posters are against the rules.

When things get out of hand, threads get locked. I'd like to have a forum for open discussion on this matter, so please do not attack other posters, so the thread does not get locked.

Thanks.

You are welcome. Not putting anyone down, just saying there appears to be a double standard when assigning blame for a NATURAL DISASTER. Everybody has made errors, no doubt. But the only errors some see are by Bush (for whatever reason) but when errors by state and local officials are pointed out
well 'it's too early' or 'we just don't know' Yet it's not too early and we do know how to transparently Blame Bush! I'd appreciate your attention to the bashing of other posters who support the Pres efforts and to posters who malign his children who have nothing to do with Hurricane Katrina.

 

[tybee204]

I think we need to stay on topic and not on individual posters. We are all to free to express how we feel but not to attack others for not agreeing with how they feel.

I cant tell anyone how to feel, what to think, or what to believe. I can only speak for myself, post the information I came across and post on how I have interpreted that information. It isnt an us vs them mentality unless one makes it that way. Try hard not to personalize another posters politics and setting your goal on proving them wrong. This isnt a campaign, its a disaster that has cost thousands of lives.

 

[TexMex]

Wow, Tex. I'm sure just dealing with these people could be a eye-opening or life-changing event for even those helping them. My hat is off to you! :woohoo: The real reality of no home, no important papers, no pictures for history, no cherished relics, no job to go to, loss of just a daily routine - it's gotta come to them in just waves....my heart just hurts for so many.

Hi DAWG,

people here are really trying their best to help. The evacuees (we've nicknamed them 'Katrinians') are getting proper medical attention. There were people who had been off their blood pressure/diabetes/antibiotics/psychiatric drugs for days. Doctors examine them and either send them to hospital or prescribe the proper medication for them.

A sweet little old lady at our house is confused and keeps saying her (late) husband promised her she could stay in that house and everything would be alright

 

[Dara]

This was a natural disaster.
People were going to die whether or not "Bush" got help in there or not.

If he had gotten help there sooner, fewer would have died.

Not everyone was going to be instantly saved or found because houses were flooded to the top.

Oh, I agree. I don't expect that anyone could have saved everyone. I expected a reasonable response to this particular disaster. I believe that if point A is no response and point Z is the most perfect response possible, we're somewhere around point E.

Maybe not E. I vacillate on that. But somewhere in the first part of the alphabet.

On Thursday,I knew more about the situation in New Orleans that the federal government representatives running the rescue efforts. You probably knew more. Anyone with a TV could have known more and most people did. You don't find that problematic?

People die instantly in almost every hurricane. You can't blame that on a person.

Well, let's say Nagin failed in the evacuation efforts. Say he had the resources and support to get thousands more out of there, but he failed to do so, and some of those people who were left behind died because he made avoidable mistakes. You wouldn't blame him? I would.

Say the government had every chance to fix the levees, but didn't. Someone is responsible.

I personally don't like to be told that I should have to blame anyone

And I don't like to be told I shouldn't blame anyone. But people have the right to post what they want.

and I think it's wrong of you to post that we ALL should blame anyone.
I would try to keep your opinions like that to yourself and not generalize them for everyone.

In this case, I feel confident that my generalization is warranted. The commander in chief dropped the ball. He had the ability and power to send in troops and he didn't and people died days after the hurricane passed.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Hi DAWG,

people here are really trying their best to help. The evacuees (we've nicknamed them 'Katrinians') are getting proper medical attention. There were people who had been off their blood pressure/diabetes/antibiotics/psychiatric drugs for days. Doctors examine them and either send them to hospital or prescribe the proper medication for them.

A sweet little old lady at our house is confused and keeps saying her (late) husband promised her she could stay in that house and everything would be alright

God bless Houston!