I am so Angry

[Dara]

How in the world could Bush give anyone 24 hours to make any decisions that affected survivors and caused loss of life?

Anyone worried about that? I'm worried about all of it, but if someone wants to be the next person clinging to life and trying not to be raped while the president is not using his power and handing out 24 hour grace periods, you can be. I want to know my president is ready to step in if state and local government is failing me.

 

[TexMex]

How in the world could Bush give anyone 24 hours to make any decisions that affected survivors and caused loss of life?

Anyone worried about that? I'm worried about all of it, but if someone wants to be the next person clinging to life and trying not to be raped while the president is not using his power and handing out 24 hour grace periods, you can be. I want to know my president is ready to step in if state and local government is failing me.

Maybe he trusted that the elected Gov of the state affected knew what she was talking about?

They had a plan:

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

The Gov of the state wanted to stick with the plan


Article from The Telegraph (UK)




Consider the signature image of the flood: an aerial shot of 255 school buses neatly parked at one city lot, their fuel tanks leaking gasoline into the urban lake. An enterprising blogger, Bryan Preston, worked out that each bus had 66 seats, which meant that the vehicles at just that one lot could have ferried out 16,830 people. Instead of entrusting its most vulnerable citizens to the gang-infested faecal hell of the Superdome, New Orleans had more than enough municipal transport on hand to have got almost everyone out in a couple of runs last Sunday.

Why didn't they? Well, the mayor didn't give the order. OK, but how about school board officials, or the fellows with the public schools transportation department, or the guy who runs that motor pool, or the individual bus drivers? If it ever occurred to any of them that these were potentially useful evacuation assets, they kept it to themselves.

So the first school bus to escape New Orleans and make it to safety in Texas was one that had been abandoned on a city street. A party of sodden citizens, ranging from the elderly to an eight-day-old baby, were desperate to get out, hopped aboard and got teenager Jabbor Gibson to drive them 13 hours non-stop to Houston. He'd never driven a bus before, and the authorities back in New Orleans may yet prosecute him. For rescuing people without a permit?

 

[less0305]

Same mayor who said he SAW the man jump to his death in the superdome. I don't know...but I'm thinking that wasn't altogether true.

I found some snippets from a congressional hearing on a drill conducted for a bio-terrorism attack. Maybe the Governor of LA has the same mind frame as some of these folks who testified at the hearing:

HEARING before the SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY, VETERANS AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS of the COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION


Hearing held on July 23, 2001


Adjutant General Cugno - Connecticutt

I can't emphasize enough the realities of what occurs in a State during emergencies. I know those who advocate a strong Federal role often underestimate these realities. The Governor has the ultimate responsibility to decide to restore normalcy to his or her citizens, and should to the greatest extent resist relinquishing control. Dark Winter proponents of a strong Federal role clearly demonstrate a lack of understanding of statehood and political realities. I am concerned that Dark Winter is an example of an exercise developed by respected institutions which have an important influence on our government's response plans yet fail to incorporate the most basic realities of State emergency response and State public policy. I would suggest for future exercises that we include a full spectrum of core emergency response officials on all levels. This would allow participants to exercise their plans and gain realistic experience of integrating plans at all levels. To recap, sir, I would like to leave you with the following. The Governor in my eyes is in charge. We must challenge adequate resources, Federal resources, to our State and local first responders through existing emergency management centers consistent with the Federal response plan. State agencies possess unique skills and assets which must be integrated and included in the response plans, and further exercises to be credible should also include existing State emergency plans and the National Guard.

Adjutant General Harrison - Florida

And the last is that it's very important that we recognize that Federalization of the National Guard is probably not the way to do things--I would never say never--but not the way to do things, and that the flexibility--and really I would say this. There's a synergistic effect. If and when the Federal military has to come in and work and the State National Guard is still on State active duty, there's a synergy that is created to really get more work because of the missions.

Subcommittee on National Security, Veterans Affairs and International Relations CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut, Chairman
Mr. Shays
I should have made that point. That point came through loud and clear, and I think it needed to be emphasized, and I thank you for that.

General Cugno.
Sir, the only thing I would like to leave you with is in every State there's an emergency plan, the Governor is actively involved with it. That emergency plan is existing, it's practiced. Regardless of what the catastrophe is, the consequences of that catastrophe may have been planned for. It integrates law enforcement officials, medical facilities, medical assets and resources, in addition to the National Guard and the resources. In every State's compact, it gives the commander or Governor the ability to reach out and touch additional assets, future operations, plannings--and exercises at the Federal level have to recognize that. I think if not, we really don't get an accurate picture of what the consequences or abilities are of a State.

I took from this that even in the event of a terrorist attack, Governors are still relunctant to turn over the reins to the federal goverment. And as it is quoted from Connecticutt's AG - "and should to the greatest extent resist relinquishing control."

 

[Dara]

Maybe he trusted that the elected Gov of the state affected knew what she was talking about?

Well, he knew people were dying, right? And he knew about lootings and helicopters trying to get babies out of hospitals being shot at, and all those rapes, and the failure of FEMA to let supplies through. He had at least as much information as we did. Your link says:

[font=verdana, tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans serif][font=Arial, Helvetica][font=Courier, Times New Roman]New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin praised President Bush on Monday - and charged that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco had delayed federal rescue efforts by 24 hours.

So, if I'm reading it right, Bush let her delay federal aid for 24 hours. And that was Thursday, right? That's over three days of the governor being in charge and coordinating with the federal government, isn't it? So that gives Bush at least three days worth of information to assess if she was acting appropriately. He left the choice up to her, which sounds like a vote of confidence he perhaps shouldn't have given her. Bush left her in charge, right?

I don't find it hard to believe that Bush would let a bad situation continue so someone else would take the heat, but I don't think it's right. I'd like to know if that's what he did.
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[TexMex]

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=4934

Bayou Buzz:

Blanco´s later insincere demand that President Bush remove Louisiana soldiers from Iraq and send them home, a politically crass move that she knows (or does she really know anything at all) is impractical. New Orleans needed army rifles from anywhere on the streets Monday evening and not Louisiana guns on Friday. But then again, Governor Blanco has displayed throughout this entire catastrophe seems a greater concern for politics than people. I am sure the governor made some hacks at the DNC very proud with her anti-Bush tirades while displaying all the virtues of an inept parish Police Juror.

Because Governor Blanco refused to talk tough when it was still possible to scare off thugs itching to loot, the city burst at its seams; after the destruction began, Governor Blanco failed to back up her new posture with action, chaos reigned, buildings were destroyed and people died. Now after the fact, things have calmed down with the dispatch of troops not necessarily from Louisiana.



As we enter the 7th day since Katrina reached Louisiana, the smoldering ruins of New Orleans are a testament to Governor Blanco´s incompetence and unwillingness to be firm with those who would use Katrina as a free pass to steal and kill at will, yet she appears angrier with the Bush Administration than the looters.



Legend has it when Rome burned, Emperor Nero, a musician and artist, played his lyre and sang. I wonder if Governor Blanco, known to be proud of her Cajun lineage, was playing a box accordion, a traditional Cajun-music instrument, at a time when New Orleans needed a Giuliani and got stuck with the anti-Rudy.

 

[Ntegrity]

Some folks just won't be happy until Bush's head is served up on a platter. Forget separation of powers between state and federal government.

Does anyone else remember how much criticism Bush received for meddling in state affairs during the Terri Schiavo travesty? I wonder if the same people were screaming about him overstepping his powers in that instance??!!

Sheesh

 

[Dara]

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=4934

Bayou Buzz:

Blanco´s later insincere demand that President Bush remove Louisiana soldiers from Iraq and send them home, a politically crass move that she knows (or does she really know anything at all) is impractical. New Orleans needed army rifles from anywhere on the streets Monday evening and not Louisiana guns on Friday. But then again, Governor Blanco has displayed throughout this entire catastrophe seems a greater concern for politics than people. I am sure the governor made some hacks at the DNC very proud with her anti-Bush tirades while displaying all the virtues of an inept parish Police Juror.

Because Governor Blanco refused to talk tough when it was still possible to scare off thugs itching to loot, the city burst at its seams; after the destruction began, Governor Blanco failed to back up her new posture with action, chaos reigned, buildings were destroyed and people died. Now after the fact, things have calmed down with the dispatch of troops not necessarily from Louisiana.

As we enter the 7th day since Katrina reached Louisiana, the smoldering ruins of New Orleans are a testament to Governor Blanco´s incompetence and unwillingness to be firm with those who would use Katrina as a free pass to steal and kill at will, yet she appears angrier with the Bush Administration than the looters.

Ok, so why did Bush defer to her?

If she's so incompetent and was from the beginning, why did Bush let her keep calling the shots?

 

[Ntegrity]

I found some snippets from a congressional hearing on a drill conducted for a bio-terrorism attack. Maybe the Governor of LA has the same mind frame as some of these folks who testified at the hearing:

That's interesting, less. Thanks.

 

[tybee204]

Keep in mind as well that these 2 choices President Bush offered Blanco did not come on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday . It came on Friday. By Saturday the Superdome and Convention Center had been evacuated. Where does this 24 hour delay come in?

 

[Dara]

Some folks just won't be happy until Bush's head is served up on a platter. Forget separation of powers between state and federal government.

Stepping gingerly over your hyperbole, let me ask, since Bush had the power to step in and that wouldn't have broken any laws, why is separation of powers a factor? Isn't the whole idea to coordinate, with the federal government at the helm? That's what I read in several federal dispatches.

If the state and local government can't handle the job, the federal must. They didn't.

Yes, we need to forget the separation of powers when people are dying. I assume that's why the president has the power to step in.

Why is it ok with you that he didn't?

If you think the state and local government bungled the entire thing from prep to rescue, why is it ok that Bush deferred to the person who it seemsyou think is and very well may be the head bungler?

Though FEMA said they were in charge, but that's an issue for another post.

 

[TexMex]

Ok, so why did Bush defer to her?

If she's so incompetent and was from the beginning, why did Bush let her keep calling the shots?

Ummm..because the good people of the state of Lousiania ELECTED her.

Silly thing called the Constitution

 

[Moe]

I'm so sick of everybody blaming everybody else. There is no way in hell anyone in this great country should have been left without water for days on end. Somebody should have issued an order to get the folks some water and National Guard to supervise. Damn the protocol, people were dying, and someone could have saved them. I don't care what the protocol is, who did not follow the rules ect. ect. Get the people water and police now! Sure evacuating all those folks was a logistical nightmare, I'll give you that. We have learned a very important lesson here, the U.S. government is not in anyway shape or form ready for disaster man made or terrorist, plan accordingly.

 

[Dara]

Ummm..because the good people of the state of Lousiania ELECTED her.

Silly thing called the Constitution

But the president is elected and he's her boss. The Constitution didn't prevent Bush from taking over. We've established that. He had every legal right to do so. So, if she was bungling things why did he leave her in charge and defer to her?

 

[TexMex]

Stepping gingerly over your hyperbole,

Yes, I hate hyperbole :slap:

Posted by Dara
..... but if someone wants to be the next person clinging to life and trying not to be raped while the president is not using his power ....

 

[Dara]

Yes, I hate hyperbole :slap:

Posted by Dara
..... but if someone wants to be the next person clinging to life and trying not to be raped while the president is not using his power ....

I wish so strongly that were hyperbole. But people were raped and died while President Bush did not use his power.

And since he is the president over the whole country it could happen again.

It isn't that I never use hyperbole, and please do comb my posts for it--you might gain something from reading them again, you never know--but that isn't hyperbole when we all saw it happen.

 

[TexMex]

I wish so strongly that were hyperbole. But people were raped and died while President Bush did not use his power.

And since he is the president over the whole country it could happen again.

It isn't that I never use hyperbole, and please do comb my posts for it--you might gain something from reading them again, you never know--but that isn't hyperbole when we all saw it happen.

So it's Bushes fault that armed gangs raped and killed people?

It is the responsibility of the NOPD to protect it's citizens.
They crumbled like wetlands into the Gulf.

The local officials told people where to go then left them there without protection or provisions while 255 buses sat unoccupied. If these buses had
been filled and people moved out of harms way the people in the Dome could have been safe by Sunday night--before the hurricane even hit.

Bush held off using his power because the elected Gov of the state asked him to let her use the powers of her office "give me another 24 hours"

UK telegraph

An enterprising blogger, Bryan Preston, worked out that each bus had 66 seats, which meant that the vehicles at just that one lot could have ferried out 16,830 people. Instead of entrusting its most vulnerable citizens to the gang-infested faecal hell of the Superdome, New Orleans had more than enough municipal transport on hand to have got almost everyone out in a couple of runs last Sunday.

 

[Dara]

So it's Bushes fault that armed gangs raped and killed people?

It is Bush's fault that more people were raped and killed than would have been with a reasonable response.

We can talk about other issues, but I really want to get an answer on this one. I asked about and you may have missed it. I'll pull it into this post:

Originally Posted by TexMex
Ummm..because the good people of the state of Lousiania ELECTED her.

Silly thing called the Constitution

But the president is elected and he's her boss. The Constitution didn't prevent Bush from taking over. We've established that. He had every legal right to do so. So, if she was bungling things why did he leave her in charge and defer to her?

Bush held off using his power because the elected Gov of the state asked him to let her use the powers of her office "give me another 24 hours"

Ok, so why did he defer to someone that the articles you keep quoting say significantly mismanaged this disaster from the first minute. Before the storm even hit. If she did everything wrong that is being claimed, how COULD he leave her in charge? She did everything wrong and people were dying and being raped, and he gave her another 24 hours.

If you were in the convention center and the person whose mismanagement created conditions that were resulted in your receiving no aid, and you were afraid of roving gangs, would you want the president to take over or leave in charge the incompetent person?

If you were in a hospital bed, needing oxygen and dialysis, having had no water or food, and you heard a helicopter approach, then heard gunshots, and then heard the helicopter leave, would you want your president to defer to someone you claim was absolutely inept? Give that person another 24 hours when you already knew she wasn't doing what she should have?

These are real questions.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Aww, I popped in for a moment only to see that the Bush bash is still going on ... :doh:

 

[kgeaux]

Ok, so why did Bush defer to her?

If she's so incompetent and was from the beginning, why did Bush let her keep calling the shots?

Let's see, Dara. BECAUSE SHE WAS THE ONE THE CITIZENS OF LOUISIANA VOTED INTO OFFICE???? Because although he technically had the power to wrest control away from her, to do so would politically destroy her? And possibly himself!?

I have told you from the beginning that I, a citizen of Louisiana, right smack dab in the center of the state, believe that it is politics. You don't have to believe me, you can give her a pass and put the blame at Bush's door, but it is HER. She turned this into a political battle, and she is doing some fancy cover your azz footwork right now. She knows who is going to come out of this smelling like a pile of crap.

 

[Dara]

Aww, I popped in for a moment only to see that the Bush bash is still going on ... :doh:

Ok, which part is bashing?

Is asking why he deferred to the governor when she is being called incompetent and it is being said she was incompetent from the very beginning. Why after so many deaths and rapes, and the cessation of many rescue efforts would he defer to the person being blamed for the problems?

Why grant a 24 hour grace period to her when he had the power to take over and help?

Why is asking questions and criticizing for specific actions called "bashing" Fear? Defensiveness? Inability to engage in a fuller debate? What?

There is far more criticism of the governor in this thread and I am not calling it bashing because I think we need to ask and hold accountable those who serve. But Bush is at fault for at least some of this and to recognize that is not bashing.