I support the Intruder theory, HOWEVER a question

[Shylock]

Shylock, when & where did the Ramseys tell police the $118,000 "meant nothing to them"?

According to Thomas (page 24), on the morning of the kidnapping, the ransom amount meant nothing to either John or Patsy when asked. Fleet and John Fernie also stated that the amount didn't ring any bells with them either.

Given the amount of time the BPD spent in the house going through paperwork - enough time that they actually recorded the Ramsey savings, liability, and net worth - I think it would be impossible for them to have actually missed the bonus amount if it was on check stubs as JR says. The amount would have popped-out like a neon sign.

And WHEN would JR have told them his bonus amount? He didn't talk to the BPD for 4-months after the crime. By that time they had been inside Access Graphics investigating and already new the bonus amount from JR's assistant.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

As ST reported, the $118,000 didn't immediately bring to mind any association by either John or Patsy. Patsy didn't know the amount of the bonus to begin with, so she couldn't have recalled it. John had received it 11+ months before, so it's reasonable that he wouldn't quickly associate it with that number in the midst of the tension of that morning.

John did speak to BPD before April. BPD asked questions of both John and Patsy all during the day of Dec 26. BPD were with both of them 24 hours a day for several days immediately after the body was found. Police interviewed & questioned John and Patsy on Dec 27, John on the 28th, and detectives talked with them both "on several occasions" Dec 26-29. (reference to DOI appendix)

John could have remembered and told BPD about the bonus amount on any of those occasions.

I could remind that Hunter was asked during a televised interview if DOI was accurate and he said that it was, excepting some possible small differences that were inconsequential.

 

[Ivy]

Originally posted by TOTH
"Burke's Swiss Army knife was found upstairs where LHP said she had hidden it."

You are wrong, Toth. Burke's Swiss Army knife was found near JonBenet's body. Here's an excerpt from the Rocky Mountain News. (If you type the key words, burke swiss army knife into your search engine, you will find lots of other sources besides this one.)

JonBenet's brother Burke, 9 at the time of the murder, was in the habit of wandering around the family's Boulder home whittling with his Swiss Army knife.

He'd trail shavings behind him so often that Hoffmann-Pugh warned she'd take away the knife if he didn't become more tidy.

He didn't. About a month before JonBenet's murder, Hoffmann-Pugh made good on her threat.

"I got tired of cleaning it up," she said. "He'd been asked to do it over paper or a bag or something. So, I just put the knife up one day, in a cupboard over the sink in that area outside of JonBenet's room" on the home's second level, an area that also had a microwave and laundry facilities.

Hoffmann-Pugh never saw the knife again.

But it resurfaced.

Included in the exhaustive inventory of items removed from the house following the 10-day police search: "red pocket knife w/broken ornament" from the family's basement.

Specifically, Detective Kerry Yamaguchi discovered Burke's knife on a countertop near a sink just down a basement corridor from the small basement room where JonBenet's body was found.

Hoffmann's-Pugh's question: How did the knife get there?

"That showed up where JonBenet was," said Hoffmann-Pugh. "I would stake my life that an intruder wouldn't know to get that out of the cupboard. Someone took that knife out of the cupboard where I put it."

Source

 

[sissi]

Again ,a mystery,another thing only LHP was privy to. No one knew where the knife was,she at one point said she hadn't told Patsy. Was it dinner conversation at the Pugh clan Christmas table,that child is a S poiled B rat,her brother is too,I had to hide his knife in the cabinet because "even" his mother wouldn't stop him from making this mess.
JMO

 

[sissi]

Ivy..Yes,I think the needle nose pliers makes a bit more sense if the guy was deeply into recreating a bondage /barbie scene. The final act for barbie on that site was her decapitation. Pliers/ducttape/rope were all a part of the guys fantasy.
IMO
add pliers to a search..pliers duct tape/rope/bondage..amazing what people are doing...lord

 

[Toth]

Burke's Swiss Army knife was found near JonBenet's body.

I think if you check the search warrant return listing you will see a reference to a red knife but not a reference to a red pocket knife as being found in the basement area.

 

[Ivy]

sissi, the weird Barbie guy was cleared a long time ago. If Keenan thinks he should be "uncleared" and re-investigated, why doesn't she do it?

If the so-called stun gun marks are from pliers, I still wonder if Burke's knife had a pliers attachment.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

As long as we're sliding off topic, did Steve Thomas' book even mention the Swiss Army knife?

 

[Ivy]

Toth, spin all you like, but you know darned well the knife found in the basement was Burke's knife, and that it was that same knife listed on the warrant.

 

[Toth]

Actually, I know nothing of the sort.
Perhaps you can locate the warrant return and do some cut and paste or something?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I agree with Toth. We don't really know what knife was found in the basement, whether it was Burke's at all, whether it had any connection whatsoever to JonBenét's death.

Information in PMPT probably came straight from LHP, who had been by BPD asked about knives found in the house.

I don't know of any investigative interest in the knife since.

 

[Ivy]

Toth, no, I don't think I could find an official online list of returned items, but even if there is one, I am sure the knife wouldn't be identified as Burke's knife on the list, so finding the list would prove nothing. Anyway, I'm not sure the knife was returned...are you?

If, after reading all the sources stating that the knife found in the basement--the same knife taken into evidence--was Burke's Swiss Army knife, you still insist on claiming it wasn't...well, Toth, by thumbing your nose at the truth, you'll be doing your beloved Ramseys more harm than good.

 

[sissi]

from items list
broken purple ornament in basement
red pocket knife/w broken ornament

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Ivy, I think that you'll find the many media references to "Burke's red knife" are all actually the same report.

Nothing in the police transcripts has brought out anything imporant or emphatic about any knife, has it?

More important might be the fibers from the cord found in JonBenét's sheets.

 

[sissi]

What could red pocket knife /with broken ornament mean?
Jonbenet's personal tree,the one in her bedroom was decorated in purple,I recall it was an angel ornament,could someone have stabbed through the ornament,leaving the knife in the angel?

 

[Shylock]

What could red pocket knife /with broken ornament mean?

Or do they mean the ornamental cross on the side of the Swiss Army knife was damaged?

 

[Ivy]

The knife found near JonBenet's body was Burke's knife. All the spin in the world won't change that well-established fact.

PMPT pb p.564:

Then there was the issue of where Burke's red pocket knife had been kept prior to the murder; it was found a few yards from JonBenet's body.

PMPT pg p.729

Next was a picture of Burke's red pocketknife that the police found in the basement several yards from JonBenet's body.

If anyone can provide a reliable non-RST source--even an official news story will suffice--stating that the red pocket knife was NOT Burke's Swiss Army knife, and was NOT the knife collected via warrant--or even that the knife in question MIGHT not be Burke's knife, please do so. My bet is that no such source exists, because the knife absolutely did belong to Burke.

 

[sissi]

Or do they mean the ornamental cross on the side of the Swiss Army knife was damaged?

The items were numbered one right after the other,
ornament
knife/w ornament
The search warrants are available on
Acandyrose.com

 

[LovelyPigeon]

If the items listed were all collected right beside each other, because of their numbers, we would have to believe the earring in the street was collected from the basement, an impossibility. Also, fibers collected from JonBenét's bed and pillow would have to have been in the basement, by the red knife w/broken ornament--another impossibility.


White string from sled (33KKY)
Earring in street (34KKY)
Canvas bag in crawlspace (37KKY)
black sheet metal in wine cellar (39KKY)
Broken purple ornament from basement (40KKY)
Red pocket knife w/broken ornament (41 KKY)
Vacuumed fibers (42KKY)
Felt tip pen (43KKY)
Hair fibers from victim's pillow (44KKY)
Fibers from victim's bed (46KKY)
Fiber's from victim's pillow (47KKY)
Vacuumed fibers from victim's bed (48KKY)

 

[Ivy]

So...I guess the broken ornament listed with the knife was on the knife (as Shylock suggested) or attached to it.