I think I love this - a new approach to the question of gay marriage

[reb]

i understand that the concept of a someone being able to legally marry someone else of the same sex (and adopt or have kids) messes with a lot of peoples' heads, and their sacred concept of the traditional home & family... and they think it's a slippery slope leading to god only knows what. however... why are we so upset at people loving each other & wanting to be together?? we should be more concerned with people hurting each other-- domestic abuse, child neglect & abuse, rape, etc. and how many kids are miserable growing up in a severely dysfunctional home with HETERO parents...??? just because you have a man & a woman for parents, does NOT mean that you will grow up in a happy, stable, nuturing home life and end up with positive male & female role models- so the fundies need to wake up and get real. this is the real world,, not leave it to freakin' beaver!! and, there are far too many unwanted kids languishing in the foster care system who desperately need to be adopted. so, would the fundies rather the kids stay there, instead of being adopted by a loving, qualified, stable, GAY couple? as for their 'aberrant' sex lives,, geez.. gay couples certainly don't do anything that hetero couples don't do! and there are so many kids being neglected and abused today that who cares who adopts them, as long as they are well-equipped to take care of them!
as for them being perverts & molesting kids... it's a well-known and obvious fact that the overwhelming majority of child molesters/rapists/ murderers are NOT gay. not sure how accurate this figure is, but i read recently somewhere that it's in the 90+% range.

 

[newtv]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003323496_gays26.html

See - this is I think what may be what most can agree on, and what the core issue is. A gay couple in a committed relationship should have the same legal rights as a heterosexual one - the unquestioned right to be there in the hospital at their partner's bedside (when no one but family is allowed); the ability to share health insurance, retirement benefits; some protection in a breakup so they both recieve a fair share of assets mutually earned; the ability, if they adopt a child, for both of them to be legal parents - etc.

What it's called, how we make sure it's not some second class version of marriage that extremists have fun watering down - those are all questions of how - but this Jersy court just answered the 'what' rather than the 'how'. It didn't say gay marriage must be legal, it just said that gays do deserve the same rights as heterosexual marriages.

sad that it cannot just be legal period..
divide sburch from state and let the nation support the obvious..
let the church decide if they want o marry same sex partners
but its an atrocity for a nation like america to be such offenders of human rights..
Its a ridiculous thing to even have as an issue-I think there are many issues that should be more bothersome to the USA than people being held responsibl for the relatinships they engage in..it works both ways..marriage gives u rights and it also gives u responsibilities. Anyone who wants to accept the responsibility deserves the rights..and please spare me the details about how then incest will be legal next..gay isnt criminal- incest is. And that goes for paedophillia and any other thing u want to throw into the pot.
I cant imagine how this question is still even a question..get over it and join the 21st century.

 

[Maral]

I am all for anyone in love having the right to a legal marriage. I forgot to post that in my above post.

My brother has been with his partner for years!!! I can't even remember how many years and I wish they could legalize it. They love each other as much as my husband and I love each other--and that is a whole lot!

Absolutely, Jean.

I support gay marriage because I support equal rights under the law. I have been married for 35 years and there is no way that my marriage would be threatened by allowing gays to legally marry.

My advice to those who oppose gay marriage is to just not marry a gay person.

 

[scandi]

I appreciate the heart you all express.

Imagine what it's like to live this life. Inexpressible suffering.

I don't think so anymore Windover, although for those who do not have the gumption to come out of the closet and live their lives as who they really are, even they are very well adapted and accepted in our society.

They are executives in high buildings, artists, curators and soloists supreme. Even great chefs a la mode. Those are the gay men I have known that made a difference in my life.

But I agree with Senator Mccain, that it should be accepted and allowed that they should be able to be committed and married to each other, but without the legal rights afforded to a man and a woman who get married. It is probably the only thing I agree with Pres Bush on!

Scandi

 

[Maral]

I don't think so anymore Windover, although for those who do not have the gumption to come out of the closet and live their lives as who they really are, even they are very well adapted and accepted in our society.

They are executives in high buildings, artists, curators and soloists supreme. Even great chefs a la mode. Those are the gay men I have known that made a difference in my life.

But I agree with Senator Mccain, that it should be accepted and allowed that they should be able to be committed and married to each other, but without the legal rights afforded to a man and a woman who get married. It is probably the only thing I agree with Pres Bush on!

Scandi

Scandi, do you mind telling why you feel a gay couple should not have the same legal rights as a heterosexual married couple?

 

[narlacat]

Absolutely, Jean.

I support gay marriage because I support equal rights under the law. I have been married for 35 years and there is no way that my marriage would be threatened by allowing gays to legally marry.

My advice to those who oppose gay marriage is to just not marry a gay person.

LOL Maral, great advice.

 

[narlacat]

I don't think so anymore Windover, although for those who do not have the gumption to come out of the closet and live their lives as who they really are, even they are very well adapted and accepted in our society.

They are executives in high buildings, artists, curators and soloists supreme. Even great chefs a la mode. Those are the gay men I have known that made a difference in my life.

But I agree with Senator Mccain, that it should be accepted and allowed that they should be able to be committed and married to each other, but without the legal rights afforded to a man and a woman who get married. It is probably the only thing I agree with Pres Bush on!

Scandi

Why not?

 

[narlacat]

Thanks, SCM. It's an issue that for the life of me, I just can not understand the opposing point of view.

Maybe it would be a case of every minority group asking for something, like- look the gays are getting this and that, let's start jumping up and down so we get what we want..

 

[scandi]

I know I didn't give the popular answer, and I guess I'm a stodgy person for saying this, but the truth is I think in today's society it is very avant guard in certain circles to be of that persuasion, and so it is somewhat environmentaly induced as a way to be. You think and act it long enough, boing, voila! I see this more and more.

I have had many dear friends who were gay and they were always the ones who always treated me like I was really special, and we talked for hours and supported each others efforts in business.

But somehow deep inside my brain my Lutheran heritage is eating away at me, saying these are relationships based primarily on certain fixations and lusts for that kind of sex. They have penis statues all over their house, like in Au Cage aux Foilles {sp}, and I did laugh alol the way through that movie it was so hilarious and well done. There is no depth to that but simply pure enjoyment, which is fleeting. To enhance the world by together creating children, is a basic reason for being connected legally in this world, and of course the hot desire has to be mutual for this to come about, and then it remains an act of closeness and devotion because that was the way it was designed, to be pleasurable in orgasmic delight for both.

A subliminal reason I have these ideas is I have a brother who has never come out of the closet to his parents. Of course we all know, even though he is not overtly feminine and foppish, and so he lives his successful life as an opera singer and professor never having ever talked about it to my mother who is our only surviving parent. now 85.

I guess I want the reverance for marriage to be upheld. I stil weigh my thoughts on this, and do have friends, even here that I know are gay and I do wish them to be happy. And I think if a couple has committed to each other and have a certificate to show that, a law could be passed to allow the partner to have normal visiting rights when only next of kin is allowed. That is the problem now with the legality I think, plus rights of survivorship.

BTW, I about died the day I learned Tab Hunter wasn't who we envisioned, and I think every girl in our high school was in a state of shock for weeks. We couldn't understand how this could be a fact and what a waste of a man, and finally we rationalized that we wouldn't want to be with him anyway, so we accepted it. This is that girl growing out of her poodle skirt and guickly into a mini skirt with a low cut cashmere sweater who I was back then, so all of this adds to the situation, right>

You asked for it sweetie, and one thing, I always shoot it from the hip. If you think I should delete this post, PM me and I will. It might be a bit too frank!~

Scandi

 

[narlacat]

Which sweetie?
Maral asked you why not too..

Anyway, it wasn't too frank for me Scandi, I didn't get your post at all, you've lost me.
Who is Tab Hunter and what does he have to do with anything lol


<<but the truth is I think in today's society it is very avant guard in certain circles to be of that persuasion, and so it is somewhat environmentaly induced as a way to be.>>

Are you worried the human race will turn gay lol

 

[newtv]

I don't think so anymore Windover, although for those who do not have the gumption to come out of the closet and live their lives as who they really are, even they are very well adapted and accepted in our society.

They are executives in high buildings, artists, curators and soloists supreme. Even great chefs a la mode. Those are the gay men I have known that made a difference in my life.

But I agree with Senator Mccain, that it should be accepted and allowed that they should be able to be committed and married to each other, but without the legal rights afforded to a man and a woman who get married. It is probably the only thing I agree with Pres Bush on!

Scandi

let me get this straight..no pun intended..they should be able to get married but not have the rights afforded a man and a woman..please - if that is truly what u mean I am shocked..the rights afforded a marriage are the rights afforded a marriage - end of story..

 

[southcitymom]

One thing that heartens me...we are progressing towards equal rights in this arena, just as women are, African Americans are. It just takes some time for change to occur on planet Earth.

For example, where I live (Atlanta), interracial marriages are generally accepted and embraced. Now it's true that if you drive an hour in any direction towards more rural parts of Georgia, the attitudes about this become more negatively judgmental. Still - we are moving forward. Such marriages used to be illegal.

I truly believe that by the time my young sons are parents, consenting adults will be allowed to get married and enjoy the rights and privileges thereto. My sons are 4 and 6, so I've no idea how their sexual lives will unfold. But I know this - I don't care who or how they love, only that they are able to love!

 

[IrishMist]

Scandi, I appreciate your reply. Like I said earlier, I truly do not understand the opposition to gay marriage. I'll be honest and say that after reading your post, I still don't understand your opposition to it, but at least you tried to explain.

I know some oppose based on the bible. I can see why they disagree, sort of; because they think the bible is against it, and they believe what is written there. But I don't think their bible ought to be the basis for the law of this land. Folks used the bible to back up slavery and go against interracial marriage, too.

Being against gay marriage is based on fear, IMO. And I don't think that's a good enough reason to discriminate against fellow Americans.

 

[SpongeBathHotPants]

Shoot, if they want to jump into that crazy mess called marriage God bless em for it. I mean in the long run who is it hurting? And they say that it will not hold the values of the traditional marriage but I don't know a lot of hetro marriages that do it. Rock on to anyone who wants to jump into marriage these days.

 

[IrishMist]

Shoot, if they want to jump into that crazy mess called marriage God bless em for it. I mean in the long run who is it hurting? And they say that it will not hold the values of the traditional marriage but I don't know a lot of hetro marriages that do it. Rock on to anyone who wants to jump into marriage these days.

That reminds me of a quote... I THINK it was Robin Williams, but I could be wrong- something along the lines of "If you want to stop gay sex, let them get married!"

 

[southcitymom]

The question of whether someone is born gay or chooses to be gay means very little to me personally. Some of us are 100% heterosexual and some of us are 100% homosexual, but many many of us fall somewhere in between on the spectrum of human sexuality.

When it comes to sex, humans truly are all the colors of the rainbow.

Who cares if you are a woman and sometimes you like to be with a man, but mainly you like women and you choose to have a woman as your life partner....not me!

 

[southcitymom]

That reminds me of a quote... I THINK it was Robin Williams, but I could be wrong- something along the lines of "If you want to stop gay sex, let them get married!"

I've heard that before and LOVE it! Some of my gay freinds also have the attitude of "why in the world would we want to join such a faulty institution as marriage!"

 

[raisincharlie]

This whole issue is an issue derived by and for the benefit of politicians as a means of gaining some favor from some group. The use of the Bible as a foundation for their position is hypocracy at a very high level. Truth is, politicians are not saints and I personally find great disgust with any politician who rallies about the good book while being a snake in the grass on their other face. Stiring a pot which has no bearing on the future of this nation or its people IMO.

Family values is another buzz word for politicians - truth is I don't see any of them doing much to help families in a manner which assists in the ability to have strong family values, such as health care, decent wages, a future social security system (what a joke) and so on...another hyprocracy.

The government needs to stay out of people's personal relationships, remember that they are indeed citizens of this country, pay taxes, work jobs that contribute to the well being of this country, and therefore should receive the rights explicitly detailed in our constitution...anything less is un-American IMO.

 

[Masterj]

This whole issue is an issue derived by and for the benefit of politicians as a means of gaining some favor from some group. The use of the Bible as a foundation for their position is hypocracy at a very high level. Truth is, politicians are not saints and I personally find great disgust with any politician who rallies about the good book while being a snake in the grass on their other face. Stiring a pot which has no bearing on the future of this nation or its people IMO.

Family values is another buzz word for politicians - truth is I don't see any of them doing much to help families in a manner which assists in the ability to have strong family values, such as health care, decent wages, a future social security system (what a joke) and so on...another hyprocracy.

The government needs to stay out of people's personal relationships, remember that they are indeed citizens of this country, pay taxes, work jobs that contribute to the well being of this country, and therefore should receive the rights explicitly detailed in our constitution...anything less is un-American IMO.

Great post!

 

[PaperDoll]

Your posts just crack me up!! You are so upfront and in your face--in a very good way, PD. I like reading everything you have to say--doesn't matter what the subject is.

JEAN :blowkiss: :blowkiss: long time no post.. great to see you are back...:blowkiss: :blowkiss: Hope you are doing well...