"I would never do that!"

[IrishMist]

I am pretty sure John said the chair was "blocking" the doorway. (I was just re-reading his depositions the other day.) It may have been the 1997 depo's, but I'm thinking it was discussed more in depth in the June, 1998 one.

 

[BlueCrab]

I am pretty sure John said the chair was "blocking" the doorway. (I was just re-reading his depositions the other day.) It may have been the 1997 depo's, but I'm thinking it was discussed more in depth in the June, 1998 one.

IrishMist,

That's correct. John said the door was BLOCKED. From the 1998 interviews about the train room door:

JOHN RAMSEY: "Well, when I came down, I mean, one of the things I noticed, okay, that door was still blocked."

MIKE KANE: "What do you mean it was blocked?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Well, there were some boxes and there was like a barstool kind of thing sitting there. It wasn't obvious to me that anybody had gone through because I had to move the chair to get in, which I did."


And if the door to the train room was blocked, no intruder came through the broken window. The intruder wouldn't have gotten any further than the blocked door.

With that statement John also shot himself in the foot in regard to his claiming he wasn't in the basement searching for JonBenet early that morning. Both Officer Rick French and Fleet White had been in the train room at 6:00 AM and 6:20 AM respectively, and there was no chair blocking the door. This means John was in the basement PRIOR to 6:00 AM and moved the chair to get in, even though he denies he was in the basement prior to 6:00 AM. And if he was in the basement prior to 6:00 AM you can bet your bippy he found JonBenet prior to 6:00 AM.

BlueCrab

 

[trixie]

Both Officer Rick French and Fleet White had been in the train room at 6:00 AM and 6:20 AM respectively, and there was no chair blocking the door. [/QUOTE]

Bluecrab, how do you know this? Can we see where you got this info? Please don't ignore me this time. It's a simple question and I think hopefully you'll be willing to share evidence we don't know about...and only you do. Thanks!

 

[rashomon]

I'll bet it crossed JR's mind that JonBenet being discovered in the wine-cellar raised the question , ok, JonBenet is down there, but where did her killer go? e.g. did he leave, is he still resident?
Well lets have an open window ....

Very likely scenario imo. That's exactly why he could have opened the window. Makes perfect sense.

 

[BlueCrab]

Both Officer Rick French and Fleet White had been in the train room at 6:00 AM and 6:20 AM respectively, and there was no chair blocking the door.

Bluecrab, how do you know this? Can we see where you got this info? Please don't ignore me this time. It's a simple question and I think hopefully you'll be willing to share evidence we don't know about...and only you do. Thanks![/QUOTE]


trixie,

I'm sorry that I ignored you. I assure you it wasn't intentional.

It's in PMPT pb, pg 1: "Earlier, Rick French, the first police officer to respond to the mother's 911 call, had immediately searched the house for the child and for any sign of forced entry, but he found nothing"

John Ramsey denies he searched the basement looking for JonBenet. Rick French got there at 6:00 AM and immediately searched the basement. If there had been a chair and boxes blocking the door to the train room then HE would have had to move them to get in, but he didn't. John inadvertently admitted that HE was the one who moved them out of the way. Therefore, John Ramsey was in the basement BEFORE Rick French.

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

Does Rich French remember a chair in front of the door?
What we are depending on are crime scene photos depicting this little chair in front of the door. The pictures were taken after French and after Fleet admittedly were down there. We don't have evidence to support John being down there before those photos...do we?

 

[IrishMist]

Does Rich French remember a chair in front of the door?
What we are depending on are crime scene photos depicting this little chair in front of the door. The pictures were taken after French and after Fleet admittedly were down there. We don't have evidence to support John being down there before those photos...do we?

Sissi,
I was going by the interviews. (The ones I was mistakenly calling depositions earlier, BTW :doh: )

I haven't found any information as to what Rick French has said... but I haven't looked that hard, either.

 

[trixie]

No. This says nothing about whether or not Rick French had to move a chair or boxes or whatever aside. Don't spin, Bluecrab. I'm sorry but you just can't make things up to create a theory. For the sake of non-confusion please stick to the known facts this time.

 

[BlueCrab]

Does Rich French remember a chair in front of the door?
What we are depending on are crime scene photos depicting this little chair in front of the door. The pictures were taken after French and after Fleet admittedly were down there. We don't have evidence to support John being down there before those photos...do we?

sissi,

Yes, we do have evidence that John was in the basement that morning prior to Rick French and Fleet White -- THE WINDOW.

John said he found the window in the train room open when he went down there for about one minute in the late morning (between 8 and 11 he guesses) and he closed it. But Officer Rick French, searching at 6:00 AM for a possible point of forced entry in the basement, did not find an open window.

There are only three windows in the basement, and the train room window was the largest -- he couldn't have missed it.

Finding an open window in the train room and closing it puts John Ramsey in the basement prior to 6:00 AM.

BlueCrab

 

[BlueCrab]

No. This says nothing about whether or not Rick French had to move a chair or boxes or whatever aside. Don't spin, Bluecrab. I'm sorry but you just can't make things up to create a theory. For the sake of non-confusion please stick to the known facts this time.

trixie,

I'm not spinning anything nor am I making anything up. It's just a matter of adding two and two and getting four.

If Rick French had found boxes and a chair blocking the door to the train room it would have been big news because it would have been proof that no intruder could have gotten any further than the train room door after entering through the basement window.

So obviously French did NOT find the door blocked when he searched the room -- because John had already unblocked it (he admitted he did). Therefore, John had been in the basement BEFORE Rick French (and Fleet White).

And, since John was obviously in the basement prior to 6:00 AM, then he undoubtedly found JonBenet's body long before Patsy's 911 call at 5:52 AM. Thus, the 911 call was a performance by Patsy and the beginning of the coverup shielding the identity of the killer.

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

Blue Crab, do we know what time the photo was taken?
Surely there were no crime photos taken in the basement in the morning. ( I am guilty of this early assumption) Wouldn't that activity have uncovered the hidden body?
We DO KNOW that after the body was found, against the order by Arndt, Fleet was the ONLY one to go down before backup LE arrived.

 

[trixie]

trixie,


If Rick French had found boxes and a chair blocking the door to the train room it would have been big news because it would have been proof that no intruder could have gotten any further than the train room door after entering through the basement window. Yup. Maybe that is one reason why Steve Thomas and the BPD are so sure this was not done by an intruder. Although if John HAD unblocked that door I don't think he would tell anybody...and he did tell in the interview with Smit. It made him look riduculous.

So obviously French did NOT find the door blocked when he searched the room -- because John had already unblocked it (he admitted he did). Therefore, John had been in the basement BEFORE Rick French (and Fleet White).
BlueCrab

I can see the leaps and assumptions you're making to "make 4" but that's an awful lot to just take on faith and to try to fill in the holes in your theory. I'd need to see Rick Frenchs' report of that morning and also FW's testimony.

 

[Toltec]

I agree with BlueCrab in that John was in the basement prior to making the 911 call. When pressed for an explanation about the supposed "open" window, John claims that the basement gets hot in the winter and that it is not unusual to have the window cracked open.

As far as the "blocked door" goes....no one but John remembers that.

John claims the window was cracked open...he closes and locks it.

John claims a stool was blocking the door. He moves the stool...goes into the train room....closes the window...leaves the room....THEN HE REPLACES THE STOOL?????

I wish I knew what time these crime scene photos were taken.

 

[Linda7NJ]

In all honestly, I do not believe they acted that strange.

#1 If I found a RN, I think I would check my child's room and upon discovering him missing would simply lose my mind. I would hope I had enough sense at that point to dial 911. I doubt I would search the house.

#2 After discovering their daughter dead the Ramseys pretty much wanted to flee the house, the area & the situation. I can understand that. I can understand their lack of concern for capturing the murderer. Nothing will bring her back.

Ten years ago I would not have be able to comprehend the way they have behaved. I can now. I have become quite familiar with avoidance. While avoidance many not be healthy, it does allow you to get up each day and carry on.

 

[jubie]

Many of you here know so much about the JonBenet investigation I'm hesitant to join in but please, pretty please can someone straighten up one thing for me...

When John found Jonbenet did he scream/yell/groan (whatever you want to call it) loud enough for those upstairs to hear him, especially could Patsy
hear him? What did she do? I have heard she didn't move for a few minutes? seconds? she didn't hear him?


This is really important for my own personal feelings about Patsy and her mothers instinct.

Anyone at all with an answer would be very much appreciated!! I have read a few books but can't seem to find a clear answer.


Thanks a bunch.
Jubie

 

[Jayelles]

Thinking about it - I would possibily find a ransom note unbelievable at first. My first reaction would possibly be that it was a trick.

My older daughter "went missing" at our last house. Our back garden was enclosed but when I looed out, she was nowhere to be found. I searched around outhouses and in the house before walking up and down the street calling her name. When I still couldn't find her I was in a panic and I may have called my husband at work - but although it was on my mind that I MIGHT have to call the police, I was wary of calling them for no reason and therefore I continued my search - only to find her hiding in amongst the dense hedging at the bottom of our garden. Boy did she get into a row for that! I had no idea that the kids had a "hideout" there (it was actually quite a spacious little den).

I'm just not certain that I would instantly phone the police. I might search the house and even the, I would probably read the note and hesitate to call the police because of the threats made. Even THEN... if I decided to call the police, I'd be hysterical and pleading with them not to draw attention to themselves.

It is very odd that the Ramseys didn't read the ransom note - not before they called police and not after.

 

[sandraladeda]

Many of you here know so much about the JonBenet investigation I'm hesitant to join in but please, pretty please can someone straighten up one thing for me...

When John found Jonbenet did he scream/yell/groan (whatever you want to call it) loud enough for those upstairs to hear him, especially could Patsy
hear him? What did she do? I have heard she didn't move for a few minutes? seconds? she didn't hear him?


This is really important for my own personal feelings about Patsy and her mothers instinct.

Anyone at all with an answer would be very much appreciated!! I have read a few books but can't seem to find a clear answer.


Thanks a bunch.
Jubie

From Perfect Murder Perfect Town, page 19:

While John Ramsey and others rushed back to the front of the house, Patsy sat for a moment on a couch in the rear of the house looking out a window. She did not move despite all the shouting that JonBenet had been found. In the living roon, John Ramsey grabbed a throw blanket off a chair and placed it over JonBenet's body. He knelt on the floor next to his daughter, he began to cry, referring to JonBenet as "my little angel" Then he rolled away from JonBenet's body, and looked toward to hallway leading from the back of the house.

Finally, Barbara Fernie led Patsy by the hand toward JonBenet. Patsy threw herself on her daughter's body.

Hope this helps.

 

[narlacat]

Many of you here know so much about the JonBenet investigation I'm hesitant to join in but please, pretty please can someone straighten up one thing for me...

When John found Jonbenet did he scream/yell/groan (whatever you want to call it) loud enough for those upstairs to hear him, especially could Patsy
hear him? What did she do? I have heard she didn't move for a few minutes? seconds? she didn't hear him?


This is really important for my own personal feelings about Patsy and her mothers instinct.

Anyone at all with an answer would be very much appreciated!! I have read a few books but can't seem to find a clear answer.


Thanks a bunch.
Jubie

Hi Jubie

When John found JonBenet, he screamed and yelled out 'Oh my God' twice.
I don't know if Patsy heard that or not.
Fleet ran up the stairs, shouting out, which Arndt heard, Patsy was in the den with Barbara Fernie and Priscilla White. They both hurried towards the sound, but Patsy did not move from the couch she was sititing on.

Patsy and John deserve an oscar for their acting skills that morning, but they didn't fool everyone and they certainly didn't fool me.

Source...ST's book

 

[jubie]

From Perfect Murder Perfect Town, page 19:

While John Ramsey and others rushed back to the front of the house, Patsy sat for a moment on a couch in the rear of the house looking out a window. She did not move despite all the shouting that JonBenet had been found. In the living roon, John Ramsey grabbed a throw blanket off a chair and placed it over JonBenet's body. He knelt on the floor next to his daughter, he began to cry, referring to JonBenet as "my little angel" Then he rolled away from JonBenet's body, and looked toward to hallway leading from the back of the house.

Finally, Barbara Fernie led Patsy by the hand toward JonBenet. Patsy threw herself on her daughter's body.

Hope this helps.

It does help, thanks very much. I had read it and passed the book on but couldn't remember how that time frame exactly played out. Jayelles statement "I would never do that" made me think of my own "I would never do that" ...

I just can't imagine being that strung out WAITING for something, ANYTHING, to happen to bring my little girl back and not charging like a bull towards ANY commotion. Mothers lift cars off kids, they attack cougars or dogs that are mauling their kids!! Why the heck did Patsy not run hell bent for fire towards what could have been JonBenet needing her.


I'm sure you've all been over this tiny detail, it's just been nagging at the back of my head for a bit.

Thanks again Sandraladeda for clearing ti up.


Jubie

 

[narlacat]

Why the heck did Patsy not run hell bent for fire towards what could have been JonBenet needing her.

Because she knew her daughter was dead.
Everything the Ramsey's said and did that morning was an act.