IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #1

[Gracelin]

radio reference . com black hawk county

Listening to the chatter.. search teams are getting ready to go out again

 

[GrainneDhu]

My city was going to pass an ordinance that would have banned RSOs within a set distance from schools and parks. It would have made it impossible for any RSOs to live in the city. Someone put a stop to that ordinance, unfortunately. I see that they must live at least 2,000 feet from a school. But where do you measure from? I have seen school campuses that are almost 2,000 feet wide. If you measure from the nearest edge, that puts the RSO about a half-mile away. But, if you measure from the front door of the school, that RSO could be much, much closer.

In Iowa, the measuring starts at the edge of the property, which means that there are plenty of (small) towns where no RSOs can live without special exemptions.

I'm glad that your city did not pass the ordinance. It has been a disaster in Iowa and I hate to see other areas make the same mistake.

 

[Gracelin]

Does anyone know the water temperatures ?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_before_a_body_floats_after_drowning

If they went in the water. The temperatures play a part in resurfacing time..

 

[GrainneDhu]

I would also add that despite the large number of sex offenders, there is no "bad" part of town and very little crime. It's a small town filled with lots of people born and raised here. I live just across the bridge in Elk Run and were so closely connected to them as they are to waterloo that everything runs together. We all share a common school district.

It's so close to Waterloo that people looking for trouble don't have to look far. Waterloo is much larger and has plenty of "bad" areas.

Your post neatly illustrates why the RSO residency restrictions have been such a disaster. They are pushed out to more rural areas, where there are fewer social services and not as much LE to keep an eye on things.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The girls were seen downtown at around 12 :15 p.m., a tipster called LE and said that he or she saw the girls' bikes out by the lake at 12 ;27 p.m.

Someone they knew,either well or slightly,offered them a ride. Someone who saw them downtown... MOO

Or someone was mistaken about who they saw.

The picture of the girls shows that they are cute but not significantly different from a hundred other girls that age in that area. With school out for the summer, there's kids on bikes all over.

Unless a tipster knows the girls personally, I'd regard a sighting as a "maybe" rather than as a positive.

 

[GrainneDhu]

My daughter and I were talking about the articles on this case earlier, and she made an interesting point. If the girls were abducted by the fence why would the perp throw the purse/cell phone over the fence in the direction of the highway? If they threw the purse/phone at all it would most likely be in the opposite direction. Something feels wrong to me about the purse/phone being throw over the fence towards the road. How busy is this highway at this time of day? One of our thoughts was maybe the girls scaled the fence when someone on the other side stopped and enticed them in some manner. Maybe someone they knew said hey want to go get ice cream, or hey someone in your family is sick/needs you to come with me, or something similiar. Then when on the other side the person quickly forced them into a car leaving or throwing the purse/phone towards the fence.

Praying that these two precious girls are found alive and well, soon.

My assumption is that the perp had physical control of one girl and was using her to coerce the other girl. First to throw the purses and cellphone over the fence, then to go along with the perp and the girl under physical control to a vehicle.

That highway is pretty busy, day and night. Not like city traffic but definitely a car every few seconds. I would be really surprised if someone were on the wrong side of the fence and not reported to LE.

 

[GrainneDhu]

But why aren't the cops calling it an abduction? What else would it be? If they were 13 or 14 then maybe it makes sense they ran away. But an 8 and 10 yr old?

Accidental drowning, of which we've had more than usual this summer in Iowa.

 

[STEADFAST]

That caught my attention too ... a 10 year old with a purse. I too am trying to figure out how the bikes got to the SE tip of the lake. It seems like a long way for them to ride bikes without a reason, but maybe there was a reason - like maybe they were going to meet a friend they met on the internet. It seems like an unlikely place for someone to toss the bikes if the girls were taken from another location. The phone and purse over the fence suggests that someone threw them over the fence to prevent the girls from using the phone. That leads me to believe that they met someone in that area where the bikes were found. If one of the girls was grabbed, I think the other one would have become compliant.

It's less than a mile from the Big and Tall store to the lake. I don't think they'd need much of a special reason to bike there. They could easily get from one sighting to the other within the time frame. However, I do think they were probably grabbed by a person or persons from the interstate, who lay in wait for victims.

 

[hollye]

Us, the trail around lake is very open, not wooded at all, and the fence is only on the back side up until you hit that south east corner. It's where they can drain and fill the lake from the cedar so they have it fenced on both sides of the trail with very little room outside of the paved trail before the fence. It's also the only area of the trail that is wooded. It's the only area of the trail you can not see from the highway. That patch of trail is short, I'm bad at distance but I'd say thirty feet long maybe.

nikki ~ So you're saying that the trail around the lake is fenced on both sides, with the exception of the area that I have outlined in red on my map? It appears to be about 23 feet or so based on my rough outline, so that would correspond with your thought of it being about 30 feet.

If that is where they drain and fill the lake, then is there a separate road that leads to that area or do they use the nature trail to drive to the area? It appears that there is an access road south toward the trail and lake at the area where South Evans Road and Arbutus Avenue meet. (Map is in my siggy)

If they were abducted, they could possibly have been pulled into the wooded area and to that access road to a waiting car and been taken from the area fairly quickly, IMO.

 

[Considering]

I am a little confused on the timeline. G'ma last saw them at 12:15.
They were seen at a store in town at 12:15.
The missing poster says they were seen riding bikes at the lake about 2.
Some else mentions their bikes were seen at the spot by lake at 12:27.
Bikes found at 3:30.

Have we confirmed which home they started from?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

As far as I know, there has not been a confirmation. Here's what I'm thinking at this point. We know that the girls were with their Grandmother on Thursday. Lyric's mother, Misty Cook-Morrissey, stated that
Lyric often stays at Elizabeth's home in Evansdale while Misty Cook-Morrissey is at work ( http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...d32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz20eYo36NO ). The grandmother reports that she last saw the girls at 12:15 pm. Another report states that they were last seen behind Lederman's (3524 Lafayette Rd) in Evansdale at 12:15 pm (could be by the grandmother, IDK). Last night I found an Andrew J Collins who lives directly behind Lederman's at 166 Brovan Blvd in Evansdale. Elizabeth Collins is the daughter of Drew and Heather (Cook) Collins. My thought is that the grandmother was watching the girls at the Collins' home.

Note: In the newspaper article linked above, it is reported that Heather Collins does live at 166 Brovan Blvd so at least that part is now confirmed.

 

[Considering]

Other information in this article that I haven't read before today:

1. Says the family started searching for the girls at 2:00 pm and called police about an hour later.

2. Heather Collins reports that the girls usually never leave the block.

3. Special K-9 search and rescue units were used on Saturday.

4. Different description of clothing the girls were wearing:


Elizabeth: White shirt, shorts, black tennis shoes or high tops

Lyric: Green shirt, black flip-flops that when together form a Sesame Street character

 

[hollye]

If the order was something like:

water --> fence --> path --> bikes --> railing or fence --> purse --> phone --> main road,

Is it possible that someone on the main road abducted them, or that someone wants police to believe that?

Google Maps Street View: SE tip of Meyers Lake from the main road

I am thinking that the likelihood of them being abducted from the main road is slim because, if I understand it correctly and from what it appears on Google Maps street view, there is a 6ft or so fence on either side of the trail where the trail can be seen from the highway, so it is actually water --> TALL FENCE --> path --> bikes --> TALL FENCE --> purse --> phone --> WIRE GUARDRAIL --> main road, until you get into the area that is wooded, where there is no fence for about 30 feet, per a local, so that they have access to move water from one lake to the other.

 

[STEADFAST]

scanner link: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8149160&posted=1#post8149160

 

[Gracelin]

the flip flop color has been changed to light purple

 

[hollye]

Listening to the chatter...

Thanks, though I will caution you that scanner chatter is not to be brought to the main board. You can suggest people go downstairs to read the scanner feed and provide a link, but cannot indicate what is being said.

 

[hollye]

Did I correctly read somewhere that Elizabeth wears a size 6 shoe and Lyric wears a size 11 shoe? Is that possibly correct? Size 6 would be a woman's size 6, which sounds possible, but a size 11 sounds really big for a 10yo. They couldn't kid sizes because a size 6 is for someone around 2-3yo and 11 is more around 5-6yo. JMOO!

 

[Kamille]

nikki ~ So you're saying that the trail around the lake is fenced on both sides, with the exception of the area that I have outlined in red on my map? It appears to be about 23 feet or so based on my rough outline, so that would correspond with your thought of it being about 30 feet.

If that is where they drain and fill the lake, then is there a separate road that leads to that area or do they use the nature trail to drive to the area? It appears that there is an access road south toward the trail and lake at the area where South Evans Road and Arbutus Avenue meet. (Map is in my siggy)

If they were abducted, they could possibly have been pulled into the wooded area and to that access road to a waiting car and been taken from the area fairly quickly, IMO.

I think the only area that is fenced on both sides is the area in that southeast corner through the wooded area and past the area where they drain. Then the lake side fence seems to go off toward the waterline and there is only the highway side fence from there on. So the girls would have to get to that point to have access to the water.

Here is a picture of searchers which appears to be at the point where there is fencing on both sides. Notice that there are vehicles parked there.

MOO

 

[hollye]

I think the only area that is fenced on both sides is the area in that southeast corner through the wooded area and past the area where they drain. Then the lake side fence seems to go off toward the waterline and there is only the highway side fence from there on. So the girls would have to get to that point to have access to the water.

Here is a picture of searchers which appears to be at the point where there is fencing on both sides. Notice that there are vehicles parked there.

MOO

Thanks! So there is likely an access road to that area (note my other comment upthread). When I was doing Street view going east, the area that I marked in red is the area, with the starting point closest to the lake, where it looked to me that the fence closest to the water ended, where it gets more wooded past the lake. I wonder how far to the west the fence along the lake goes... I see what you're saying about it veering from the path toward the lake, but I wonder how far along the lake in that direction the fence goes.

ETA ~ Nevermind, I see how far it goes west. I have added a yellow line along on my map where it appears that the fence is. Thanks for the reference!

 

[paris_paris]

When I was about 11, my cousin and I, a girl my same age, were riding our bikes around her neighborhood. Some middle school boys had a tiny kitten, and they told us there were some abandoned kittens in a field nearby. And of course they said, '"follow us." So we did follow them for quite awhile, but they kept looking around nervously, so i got spooked, and refused to go any further. My cousin was mad at me, because she liked one of the boys, but my gut instinct was saying no way. LOL

most 8 and 10 yr old girls are very easy to lure away. Puppies, kittens, soda pop, almost anything will work. They are still so pure and trusting.

Similar thing happened when I was a kid, and that's exactly what this case feels like. I think they were lured away by someone else on a bike. I can't imagine what happened from there.

I've seen no mention of tracking dogs?

 

[palaminodee]

I too lived in IA for 20 yrs...things that concern me about this case

IA summer weather is hot, they were gone for quite a long time in the heat of the day...a long bike ride from downtown to the trail on a hot day?
I380 has a lot of truck traffic...very close to the area bikes were found
Agree that Waterloo is close and a bit rough...the quantity of sex offenders close to where they were sited/bikes found is alarming
Quite a few older friends/acquaintances on the FB page
Quite young to be that far from home...could be easily lured or overcome by a larger person...
Not sure if these girls would venture in the lake??
Very sad and frightening at this point