IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #10

[Confusion]

Cover story on local news station KWWL tonight
http://www.kwwl.com/story/19152101/s...irls-continues

Chelsea Beahr goes to court Tuesday on drug charges.

She was arrested at the same time as Dan Morrissey and Jason Stolfus.

Stolfus goes on trial next month.

Last week, he didn't show up for a court appearance in a child support case.

It's not clear how the three may or may not have known each other.
====================================================

I am curious about the woman who was arrested with Dan. If they had an emotional relationship, and he 'narced' her out, she would be pretty angry.

I had not considered that a female might have been the perp, but?

I thought Stolfus had a plea agreement arranged that would possibly keep him from spending any time in jail. Currious that they both seem to have opted for trials rather than their good plea bargains.

 

[Jules71]

 

[Jules71]

 

[GrainneDhu]

Which direction were the bikes facing on the trail? West or East?

I'm 20 pages behind, so someone else may have mentioned this.

In regards to the most recently released video, Chief Deputy Rick Abben said that it showed the girls going west "away from the lake."

This caused some confusion on WS because while the easier route might be to the east, there's certainly easy ways to get to the lake from the west as well.

Now I'm wondering. If the girls had approached the lake from the west, one would expect their bikes to be pointed east.

But if the bikes were pointed towards the western access to the bike trail, then seeing a video of the girls riding west would be slightly puzzling.

I wonder if Chief Deputy's Freudian slip was showing?

 

[katydid23]

Okay, so that is my latest theory. Suppose Dan narced out a female, one that he was having a relationship with? Would she be angry enough to get him where it would hurt the most, through his children? Especially if the woman was jealous of his wife and angry at her too.

It is kind of hard for me to see drug cartels or druglords, going after a man's kids. But a spurned lover? Yes, that is possible. Especially if she were narced out and going to do time in prison, while he hoped to spend time at home with his family.

 

[MNDad]

Although a lot of hidden secrets can be found in how people phrase things, I think everyone is reading too much into how Gma speaks. Being from MN and not far from IA, I can tell you that sentence composition is slightly different. The use of double negatives; such as, "didn't find nobody" are common and in general, her way of phrasing things is perfectly normal for this region. Gma referring to DC as "The dad" (his role) and not by his name is also normal. I think it is important to analyze while looking for hints, but if overdone, can be a distraction from other things.

 

[Sailorsgirl]

Although a lot of hidden secrets can be found in how people phrase things, I think everyone is reading too much into how Gma speaks. Being from MN and not far from IA, I can tell you that sentence composition is slightly different. The use of double negatives; such as, "didn't find nobody" are common and in general, her way of phrasing things is perfectly normal for this region. Gma referring to DC as "The dad" (his role) and not by his name is also normal. I think it is important to analyze while looking for hints, but if overdone, can be a distraction from other things.

I don't know if people were questioning the grammar or phrasing as much as the fact she didn't say "the girls."

 

[MNDad]

I'm 20 pages behind, so someone else may have mentioned this.

In regards to the most recently released video, Chief Deputy Rick Abben said that it showed the girls going west "away from the lake."

This caused some confusion on WS because while the easier route might be to the east, there's certainly easy ways to get to the lake from the west as well.

Now I'm wondering. If the girls had approached the lake from the west, one would expect their bikes to be pointed east.

But if the bikes were pointed towards the western access to the bike trail, then seeing a video of the girls riding west would be slightly puzzling.

I wonder if Chief Deputy's Freudian slip was showing?

The video shows them going west, but that is near the Collins' home and if they did take a left and shoot down to the lake, there are many side streets they could choose and enter the trail from either direction. I don't think the direction they were seen in the video can tell us anything once they got near the lake. I was curious which direction the bikes were facing when found because that would tell us which way they came from and were headed immediately before the bikes were abandoned (assuming they were there with their bikes at all)

 

[GrainneDhu]

Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, that someone nabbed the girls in town, and decided to put the bikes at the lake to deflect attention away from themselves.

How would they get the bikes to that specific location? They couldn't drive them in very closely. They would need to park in a hidden location and then walk the bikes there.

Does that sound feasible or possible or even likely?

Would 2 people ride them there and then abandon them? They would have to walk away and then get picked up?

I agree.

How could an adult ride Elizabeth's bicycle without looking like a clown? She was only about 4 foot 1 inch and her bicycle was adjusted for her size.

The only alternative for an average adult in dealing with Elizabeth's bicycle would be to walk with it. If an adult were walking Elizabeth's bicycle, they'd be forced to walk Lyric's as well (which was adjusted for a 4 foot 10 inch girl--that's short for most adults, even women).

I'd think one adult walking two bicycles would stand out.

 

[nikb]

So. Baptist born and raised.

If the "state is praying" then we are looking TO g_d
NOT AT HIM! ~jmo

Misty Morrissey said, "I told god...You know what Lord? The whole state is looking at you..."
http://www.kwwl.com/story/19152101/search-for-missing-girls-continues

Could this just be a case of really bad punctuation from the transcription? In other words "I told God you know what? Lord [as in, oh my gosh, or holy <censored>], the whole state is looking at you?"

IMO only and not even necessarily MO, just a thought.

 

[katydid23]

The video shows them going west, but that is near the Collins' home and if they did take a left and shoot down to the lake, there are many side streets they could choose and enter the trail from either direction. I don't think the direction they were seen in the video can tell us anything once they got near the lake. I was curious which direction the bikes were facing when found because that would tell us which way they came from and were headed immediately before the bikes were abandoned (assuming they were there with their bikes at all)

Unless it was a small female. A petite young female, around the age of 21, for example, might be able to ride or walk Lizzies bike.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Not sure if you are suggesting that the parents of these missing "babies" are being treated differently than other parents of missing children? Not sure what dots I am to join here?

IMO all parents are treated as suspects initially and I am hard pressed to think of any recent cases where parents were not treated as suspect and repeatedly interviewed by LE, and there aren't many recent cases I can think of where LE has not used the interview tactic of "we know you know more than you are telling us" "c'mon, you did it - we know you did, just tell us what happened" etc.

Are you suggesting this case is different in this regard?

TIA

Other parents of missing children in the US have commented on or complained about similar treatment. All the parents that made such comments were factually innocent.

LE feels they have to do such things. I hope the day is coming when such tactics will be viewed as something out of history akin to the use of the rack, ineffective and no longer viewed as effective.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Finally found it.... this is where Grandma says the dad (Drew) came home.


COOK: Well, I took her from my house -- I live in Waterloo, and her mom left for work. She rode with me to Heather`s house, my other daughter in Evansdale. And I go there every day for four or five hours, and she always goes with me. And because Heather is not well and she has four little kids. And we did a daily routine that day at, you know, in her house doing things, eating breakfast and all that stuff.

And so it was at 11:30, they asked me if they could go for a short bike ride, and I said yes. And they`ve done this millions of times. And they`ve never, never went that far. I could go outside and yell their names, and they would eventually hear me.

And this day, they just didn`t come back. And so K____ (ph), Elizabeth`s brother, he`s 12 -- I hopped in my car because the dad came home, and I went searching Elk Run. We were down by Meyers Lake. We drove all over every little park and Evansdale, Elk Run, every mentionable place, downtown area. And we couldn`t find nobody.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

BBM, this is a transcribed interview, yes? Can someone who has watched this tell me how she says "nobody"? Does she pronounce in nobuddy or no body?

 

[nikb]

I can't pretend to understand what it's like to have a missing child ... however, I do know exactly what it's like to have a potentially dying child. It just wouldn't dawn on me to pray to Jesus that it's up to him to decide whether my child lives or dies. I prayed that my child would live.

(still catching up so sorry if this is outdated)

Sailorsgirl I'm so glad your child is OK. I hope that's right, seems so from what you've posted.

Regarding your post... I know! Earlier there was a statement about forgiving the perp even if the child was harmed and that one sort of made sense to me, anything to get the child back alive and deal with the rest of the mess later. But to say "alive or dead" scares me.

Once in my life I was the child who was in the "unkown if she'll live or die" category (disease not foul play) for a couple of years and I can remember the agony it put my parents and brother through. It was awful for them not knowing what was going to happen or how sick I truly was, but at least they knew I was in the hands of a whole lot of caring docs and nurses. I can't imagine if they didn't even know at least where I was. Awful.

It makes me sick to even think of anything worse happening to these girls. Maybe, maybe the parents are thinking IF the worst has happened they'd rather at least know what happened vs. not? I started to type out my next thought but it made me sick so I'll just say, sometimes there's that "fate worse than death" and maybe the parents are thinking along those lines as well since so much time has passed?

I have no idea... throwing random thoughts out at this point.

 

[nikb]

This made me sob, so hard.

I'm not a religious person particularly but please, please let someone find these girls and bring them home alive and safe.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This theory requires that we discount the alleged sighting, by a witness as reported by family, at 2:00 or thereabouts. Which I think is reasonable to discount, but that the Missing Posters claim the girls were last seen at 2 near the lake.

Just opinion, but "the most likely scenario," has yet to be determined. That part is definitely opinion. I feel the most likely scenario is that the girls were lured away from their bikes to a vehicle in those woods. The pre-planning, the multiple perps, etc, is less-likely, as is a vehicle "coming along at just the right moment," since, if there was a vehicle coming by, why wouldn't they ride their bikes closer to where they could access a vehicle? Why would they leave their bikes in a spot where they will block a path, why not take a second to move them, why not ride them back, at least, to where the fence ends so that others using the trail wouldn't need to swerve? JMO.

All good points, in my humble opinion.

The scenario that to me involves the least numbers of factors added in is:

The girls decided on their own to ride around the lake. They were either trying to get away with sneaking off without Grandma realising it or they were racing (this accounts for their brisk pace as seen on the videos).

The perp had his vehicle hidden down that overgrown track that is called Maiden Lane on the maps. He was or is a local and has local knowledge. He knew of that one secluded spot on the trail.

The perp was stationed close to one end of the double fenced portion of the trail, far enough back of it that they could see who was headed towards that spot coming the other direction. When the two girls were spotted, in some way they fitted the perp's mental profile (or one of them fitted and the perp was confident of being able to control both girls).

The perp started towards the jetty area, probably by walking until they were out of sight behind the lakeside fence, then jogging or running until they were in place.

The perp was stationed close to but not too close to the fence closer to the highway such that a bicyclist would assume there was plenty of room to pass by. There was about six feet of space, which meant the bicyclist was probably only about 3 feet away.

The perp grabbed the girl in front by the arm, jerked her sideways to stop her and displayed a weapon. The other girl stopped and both girls were compliant for fear of one of them getting hurt.

The perp told them to leave their bikes. Elizabeth may have tried to get her purse open to grab the cell phone (although inactive, it could still be used to call 911). For whatever reason, the perp told her to throw it over the lakeside fence and she did so.

Then the perp marched them off into the woods and to the vehicle that was parked out of sight on Maiden Lane.

Starting from when the girls entered the double fenced area, the whole thing took 3 minutes, possibly less, until they were out of sight in the wooded area.

It's just a theory but I believe it accounts for the evidence now known while adding in a minimum of other elements.

 

[katydid23]

All good points, in my humble opinion.

The scenario that to me involves the least numbers of factors added in is:

The girls decided on their own to ride around the lake. They were either trying to get away with sneaking off without Grandma realising it or they were racing (this accounts for their brisk pace as seen on the videos).

The perp had his vehicle hidden down that overgrown track that is called Maiden Lane on the maps. He was or is a local and has local knowledge. He knew of that one secluded spot on the trail.

The perp was stationed close to one end of the double fenced portion of the trail, far enough back of it that they could see who was headed towards that spot coming the other direction. When the two girls were spotted, in some way they fitted the perp's mental profile (or one of them fitted and the perp was confident of being able to control both girls).

The perp started towards the jetty area, probably by walking until they were out of sight behind the lakeside fence, then jogging or running until they were in place.

The perp was stationed close to but not too close to the fence closer to the highway such that a bicyclist would assume there was plenty of room to pass by. There was about six feet of space, which meant the bicyclist was probably only about 3 feet away.

The perp grabbed the girl in front by the arm, jerked her sideways to stop her and displayed a weapon. The other girl stopped and both girls were compliant for fear of one of them getting hurt.

The perp told them to leave their bikes. Elizabeth may have tried to get her purse open to grab the cell phone (although inactive, it could still be used to call 911). For whatever reason, the perp told her to throw it over the lakeside fence and she did so.

Then the perp marched them off into the woods and to the vehicle that was parked out of sight on Maiden Lane.

Starting from when the girls entered the double fenced area, the whole thing took 3 minutes, possibly less, until they were out of sight in the wooded area.

It's just a theory but I believe it accounts for the evidence now known while adding in a minimum of other elements.

Very good scenario. It is physically possible.

My question is this. Is there a good enough reason for a perp to hunker down there? Are there a lot of unsupervised kids going through there?

it just seems so improbable that the girls would be nabbed within minutes of arriving at the lake. I guess it is what it is.

I just keep going back to the coincidence of Lyric's fathers court issues. Having all of that happening simultaneously is so hard for me to ignore.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Just my opinion regarding the statements made by mom(and I'm always in catch up reading mode with this case so forgive/disregard if already stated)..

I'm also a born/raised Southern Baptist tho as an adult have definitely not adhered to the majority of the good ol Southern Baptist ways/rules.. But nonetheless am very familiar with this type of verbiage used.. With that said what struck me about the two statements were number one they appear IMO to be quite contradictory of one another ATLEAST in looking at the basis of each of the two statements.. And tied into that same issue is number two that IMO the first statement was very much an accusatory tone/nature that she is almost like "calling out" God/Lord in a very real way..

As in Lord, all eyes are on you to make this happen.. IMO even a hint of a threatening tone of God better follow through and do what's right in bringing the girls home and that all the pressure and eyes are upon Him(God) to make sure that happens..

Again that's jmo and I could be reading it entirely wrong but it is what my initial thoughts/feelings were upon reading the two statements re:God..

IMO the second statement as I mentioned earlier appears to be almost the direct opposite tone/nature than that of the first statement.. Whereas in the first it was almost a threatening, calling out type of over all tone.. The second statement IMO could not be more different or opposite of the first..

The second appears to be stating that she's putting all her faith in God and trusting that He will do what's best(ie. IMO of course the hope would be to have the girls brought home alive).. But regardless of that particular wording of "alive or dead".. IMO just the overall tone/nature of the second statement couldn't be more opposite or contradictory than the overall tone and verbiage used in the first statement..

Anywhoo.. Sorry to drone on just throwing in my 2cents and if already discussed please forgive/disregard..

Back to lurking and reading mode

 

[GrainneDhu]

^^^^^^^^
YES! That! Especially when WC said, "everybody knows that Dan narc-ed on a ton of people!"

Deflection, of the highest order, IMO.

I still want to know what WC said to KWWL on 9/19 or 9/20 that LE wanted to look at so badly.

You can look it up on the KWWL website. The station has already said that everything they have is posted on their website; as per station policy, they destroyed any raw footage as soon as the story ran.

Also, they said that the particular interview that LE was interested in was a live interview, so the raw footage was all in the interview (that's what a live interview is).

So you can see it for yourself and see whatever it was that LE thought was interesting.

 

[GrainneDhu]

As a former little girl, I would definitely not go willingly with anyone who tossed my purse.

SBM

What if they had hold of your arm or hair and had a knife?