IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[SK_Hunter]

The day I was at the lake was on a Sunday afternoon, nice out. I saw two old people walking on the west end of the trail, the creepy guy in the white van, and thats it. Keep in mind the girls were abducted during the week day. On Friday.

Not that I have ever had to use it, but I keep a little, "creepy license list" on my smart phone. Every time I encounter something I deem creepy or suspicious, I try to jot down the license plate and vehicle details. Never used it but somehow feel better after doing so. Like "I got you" if anything were to happen.

 

[cluciano63]

I can't see this being a thing where the girls are being held for a drug debt...at least not now. Even if it started out that way somehow. It has gone on for too long and they either could not release the girls because they could identify them, or they never intended to do so. I also do not believe they are being held in a house somewhere nearby.

I think lots and lots of professional searching needs to be done, to include up to ten miles radius or more...

Just my humble opinion of course.

 

[nikb]

But you went AFTER the abduction right?

People would be keeping their kids away now.

On that Friday, the lake was full of people hanging out and relaxing.

It's a good point on the lack of people after the abduction, but where did you see that the lake was "full of people" that Friday, before the abduction? I've only read about a few and there was a pretty big time gap between them. It always bothered me because at least with a narrower margin it'd be easier for LE - although they probably know much more than we do. I'm sorry if I'm forgetting that you're a local and saw it full of people.

Eek thinking about it the leeches alone would keep me from hanging out there myself or with kids. Riding by or jogging maybe, in a boat well out of the water maybe, but not hanging out by the water. IMO only.

 

[nikb]

How do you know for sure the lake was full of people hanging out and relaxing?

You type faster than I do.

 

[zoebella]

As far as the bump and run, when I was a child, I got "bumped" by a car. I was riding down the street and an older gentleman in a HUGE car came out of nowhere and hit me (he was pulling out of his driveway). It was hard enough to knock me over (I had looked to be sure no one was coming first - always did). Luckily, he felt the bump and stopped. I had a few scrapes and bruises but my bike was fine. Just wanted to throw that out there - it could be possible to bump a bike and not cause remarkable damage.

What about bumping a bike with another bike? Like the perp runs into one of the girls, knocks them off their bike, then offers to take them home? Or, claims they live by the lake and offers to walk the girls to their house for a bandaid. Or even rollerblades - could run into them and pretend they (the perp) was hurt (could do this with bike as well), ask for assistance getting to car. Take RBs off, or if on bike, ask the girls to set their bikes down and walk his/her bike to their car for them. Then the perp has both girls by their car and could have taken it a step further by asking them to help them put the bike in the trunk/on the rack/in the back (if a van).

My other thought relates to the purse being discarded. What if the perps brought a puppy(s) or dog(s) with them and let the pup/dog loose, then pretended the pup/dog had escaped and called out for the girls to help them catch the dog. Once the girls get it, they ask them to help them back to their car. Or just being kids, maybe the girls just wanted to pet the dog/pup and the perp says they have to go but the girls can hold the dog for them and walk them to their car?

Just a few different things I thought of while reading today. All just IMHO, and all just random thoughts.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am still confused by the lake being described as packed with tons of people and kids. The descriptions and locals seem to describe it as being much less packed than that?

Not "packed" as in crowded, but -

LE had plenty of witnesses for that time frame, including TG, the fisher boy, the paddle boater, a jogger.

The lake is only 25 acres...not huge at all.

Add that in to the witnesses that aren't co-operating, plus the residents who actually live on the lake, and you have a fair few people around the lake...it was also school holidays at the time.

LE appear to know there are people keeping quiet. They have gone so far to say today that the case is actively being hampered by witnesses who will not speak, asked once again for more witnesses to come forward, specifically a paddle-boater who remains elusive.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-suspe...-case-family/story?id=16810959&page=2remained alive after abduction.

This implies, to me, that they know of more witnesses that day, who they either cannot locate or will not speak.

 

[Sunlight]

Your post gave my brain a jumping off point going into a direction I hadn't thought of before.

The videos show SOMEONE on two bicycles going by really fast.

Almost everyone here finds it nearly impossible to believe that someone could identify the girls as being the people on the bikes, however LE came out and said early on that the people on the bikes were DEFINITELY the girls.

You said perhaps the police don't want to tip their hand... which got me to thinking... maybe that's why they said they were certain it was the girls on the bikes. Maybe they didn't want to tip their hand.. their "hand" being that they can see on the video that it's definitely NOT the girls on those bikes, racing away.

Just another thought to throw into the mix..

That is exactly what I was thinking...kinda puts the perp(s) in a peculiar position...

 

[nikb]

Residents.

Thanks! That was my impression but I wanted to ask.

 

[cindersoot]

It's a good point on the lack of people after the abduction, but where did you see that the lake was "full of people" that Friday, before the abduction? I've only read about a few and there was a pretty big time gap between them. It always bothered me because at least with a narrower margin it'd be easier for LE - although they probably know much more than we do. I'm sorry if I'm forgetting that you're a local and saw it full of people.

Eek thinking about it the leeches alone would keep me from hanging out there myself or with kids. Riding by or jogging maybe, in a boat well out of the water maybe, but not hanging out by the water. IMO only.

Boy, lol. If there were a lote of people at the lake that day then there would be plenty of witnesses, in which there isn't.

 

[SapphireSteel]

You see if they went by boat, along that wooded, shaded, secluded area, they really would not have been seen.

Do you mean the stun-gun abductor?

So he plans to abduct two children, with only a PADDLE BOAT as getaway?

Not likely, IMO. This one is very well planned. The "trap" people are speaking of is between the path and the highway...plus the dogs did not trace the girls to the lake but into the wooded area.

:moo:

 

[cindersoot]

Do you mean the stun-gun abductor?

So he plans to abduct two children, with only a PADDLE BOAT as getaway?

Not likely, IMO. This one is very well planned. The "trap" people are speaking of is between the path and the highway...plus the dogs did not trace the girls to the lake but into the wooded area.

:moo:

Um...the wooded area is next to the lake.

 

[Bootsctr]

I think the girls did make it to the lake that day too. The way auntie described each dog's reaction to each girl's scent, they had to have been to the lake.

 

[superbee]

IIRC the closest I've seen to confirmed people right at or very close to the lake have been:

- boy fishing who said he'd been there awhile
- TG who was biking and swerved to miss the bikes (around 12:20ish)
- mystery jogger who saw two girls riding bikes (around 2ish)
- potentially a paddleboater, no one's ever said he/she was seen but since LE was looking for a paddleboater I'm guessing there was either one around or they're trying to rule out one being around
- Aunt T. when she realized the girls were missing and asked to be taken to the lake
- After that... lots of family, LE, and later volunteers searching for the girls

I am wondering about the boy fishing. Was he in a boat or fishing from shore? I am thinking of a 25 acre plot of land, it would be hard to monitor the goings on, a lake that size would be no easier, figures that distance would be small. Easier to see what is happening if in a boat floating around the lake. Sounds do travel over water, especially if there were shouts or screams. The boy was busy fishing, but it would be interesting to know what he saw and heard while he was at the lake that day.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Um...the wooded area is next to the lake.

The dogs led AWAY from the lake TO the wooded area.

Unless the wooded area is in the middle of the lake, that means the scent went in the opposite direction.

:moo:

 

[LaylaD]

The day I was at the lake was on a Sunday afternoon, nice out. I saw two old people walking on the west end of the trail, the creepy guy in the white van, and thats it. Keep in mind the girls were abducted during the week day. On Friday.

From your photo from the day of your visit it seemed like there were more cars in the lot than your comment above states. Am I recalling the photo incorrectly?

 

[Wishbone]

Do you mean the stun-gun abductor?

So he plans to abduct two children, with only a PADDLE BOAT as getaway?

Not likely, IMO. This one is very well planned. The "trap" people are speaking of is between the path and the highway...plus the dogs did not trace the girls to the lake but into the wooded area.

:moo:

Taser, knife, gun, puppy, kitty, who knows what was used if anything. Maybe the paddleboat was used as a lure to get them somewhere else, its a question that doesn't have an answer yet.

 

[Copper]

I would like to clarify something. I'm not a local, but I've driven by Meyers Lake plenty of times over the years. its not a lake that has a great many houses ON the lake. So the idea that there would be people at home with immediate access to the lake or be able to directly view the lake is incorrect, IMHO.

 

[katydid23]

Taser, knife, gun, puppy, kitty, who knows what was used if anything. Maybe the paddleboat was used as a lure to get them somewhere else, its a question that doesn't have an answer yet.

Exactly. The paddleboat might have just been the lure, but they never actually got on the boat. He points to a boat and says ' there's my boat, I will go get it and pick you up here at this jetty, leave your stuff there and come over here and wait....

That is all he would need to do, and they would have never stepped foot on the boat.

 

[cindersoot]

The dogs led AWAY from the lake TO the wooded area.

Unless the wooded area is in the middle of the lake, that means the scent went in the opposite direction.

:moo:

The wooded area is at the end of the lake. It runs into the lake, the lake touches the wooded area.

 

[cindersoot]

I would like to clarify something. I'm not a local, but I've driven by Meyers Lake plenty of times over the years. its not a lake that has a great many houses ON the lake. So the idea that there would be people at home with immediate access to the lake or be able to directly view the lake is incorrect, IMHO.

The house for sale has a great back yard view of the lake. As does other homes.