IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you, nikb, I think it was way, way back. I hope if it rained that morning, the ground around the lake, particularly Maiden Lane, held prints, particularly tire prints, from any vehicle parked there after the rain. If some locals in town were out watering in their yards, hopefully at least one person in the homes on the lake were out in their yard too, and could see and/or hear anything going on. I'm wondering what time the sun came out. I hope LE examining the video of the 2 bike riders were looking for shadows cast by them, at noon the shadows should have been very short or right under them. If the sun was shining when the bike riders were recorded.

Total precipitation that day: 0.01 inches

http://www.almanac.com/weather/history/IA/Waterloo/2011-07-13

Barely enough to dampen the grass and certainly not enough to wet the ground.

From what Ollipop has said, Maiden Lane has a base of gravel that is overgrown with weeds. He took pictures of tire tracks but those tracks consisted of pressed down vegetation. Certainly not enough to get a tire impression from.

I'd been wondering how the Cedar Valley was lucky enough to get enough rain to notice when all we got was some spitting rain that wasn't enough to cover concrete fully with rain drops. Turns out that the answer was, they didn't.

No wonder Mr Carpenter was watering his lawn.

 

[nikb]

Not that I have ever had to use it, but I keep a little, "creepy license list" on my smart phone. Every time I encounter something I deem creepy or suspicious, I try to jot down the license plate and vehicle details. Never used it but somehow feel better after doing so. Like "I got you" if anything were to happen.

I think it's a good idea personally. In case it saves you some time, consider taking a picture of the plate and saving it in a "creepy license" file folder. Hopefully you never need any of it! That way you're not sitting there near said creepy vehicle for too long trying to jot it down.

 

[callyn]

MCM, 34, .... She took a second polygraph test on Monday. (July 23rd)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...g-iowa-girls-investigation-as-abduction-case/

Yes, she did take another LDT, because the first was "inconclusive".

 

[SapphireSteel]

Is there a reason why the FBI in Quantico can't release a profile of a likely suspect or what the public should look out for or try to remember?

Maybe I have watched too many episodes of Criminal Minds.

One reason could be, they know who did it, but cannot prove it as yet.

They know there is no risk to the public at large.

:moo:

 

[azuredewdrop]

Is there a reason why the FBI in Quantico can't release a profile of a likely suspect or what the public should look out for or try to remember?

Maybe I have watched too many episodes of Criminal Minds.

It's actually not always wise release such things or name a person of interest. First, because those who are later found to be innocent will have their lives turned upside down and in some cases they have won large lawsuits for it.

Second, because tipping off a person who MIGHT be holding on to a child(ren) that you are looking at them and consider them suspect is a way to likely get them killed.

Third, if a perp is lulled in to a false sense of "I got away with it" they might make mistakes, trip themselves up.

Public information isn't always the best thing

 

[SapphireSteel]

But some do. Even innocent ones have failed them or been inconclusive.

I would be very interested in the statistics of this.

Do you have any links?

tia.

 

[Bootsctr]

MCM and DC "lawyered up" for all of two days.

I cannot believe that LE didn't have plenty of other stuff to do while the parents got over whatever it was that led them to decide to stop talking.

Heck, it wasn't even two days before they were talking to the media again.

Before that and after that, they were cooperating.

MCM spoke to media the day after her lawyer advised her not to. That interview was subpoened by LE. I only remember the aunt talking after that, but I'm probably wrong. I am pro-lawyers, always good to get a second opinion. Seems like DC would have a lawyer with a trial coming up. Just thinking MCM would have a lawyer handy with her troubles too. I do think DC began cooperating pretty quickly by coming forward afterwards and "narc'ing out a lot of people" according to WC.

 

[huckleberryhound]

Im pretty sure one of Lyrics family member said they recognized the bikes that they had actually given Lyric the bike.

I'm sure it probably has nothing to do with what happened, but I've wondered whos bike Lyric was riding? Did she keep her bike at the Collins' house? or did Grandma haul it back and forth from her home? or did she ride Elizabeth's brothers bike?

 

[elmomom]

Inconclusive= inconclusive. Deception =failed

inconclusive [ˌɪnkənˈkluːsɪv]
adj
not conclusive or decisive; not finally settled; indeterminate

 

[hollyblue]

A couple of things -

The bikes were not damaged.

Where exactly did he "bump" them? Vehicles are not allowed on the bike path?

tia.

Where did LE say the bikes were not damaged? IIRC, it's never be stated what condition the bikes were found in, but I'd sure to like know.

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm sure it probably has nothing to do with what happened, but I've wondered whos bike Lyric was riding? Did she keep her bike at the Collins' house? or did Grandma haul it back and forth from her home? or did she ride Elizabeth's brothers bike?

Good question! I had always assumed they were both girl bicycles...

:fence:

 

[Copper]

It's actually not always wise release such things or name a person of interest. First, because those who are later found to be innocent will have their lives turned upside down and in some cases they have won large lawsuits for it.

Second, because tipping off a person who MIGHT be holding on to a child(ren) that you are looking at them and consider them suspect is a way to likely get them killed.

Third, if a perp is lulled in to a false sense of "I got away with it" they might make mistakes, trip themselves up.

Public information isn't always the best thing

^ This. I can understand why FBI/local LE might scale back their media appearances. But the family too, at almost the same time. Has anyone read/seen/heard anything major from any of the family since the week of the 22nd?

 

[azuredewdrop]

I'm sure it probably has nothing to do with what happened, but I've wondered whos bike Lyric was riding? Did she keep her bike at the Collins' house? or did Grandma haul it back and forth from her home? or did she ride Elizabeth's brothers bike?

Not sure if it's been said. Only that the bikes were a small purple and white bike and bmx red mountain bike.

 

[nikb]

I am wondering about the boy fishing. Was he in a boat or fishing from shore? I am thinking of a 25 acre plot of land, it would be hard to monitor the goings on, a lake that size would be no easier, figures that distance would be small. Easier to see what is happening if in a boat floating around the lake. Sounds do travel over water, especially if there were shouts or screams. The boy was busy fishing, but it would be interesting to know what he saw and heard while he was at the lake that day.

Yay I finally found it! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins? We`re trying to help find them with the family of really both girls because they`re cousins. But Lyric Cook`s mom is with us as well as her sister, the aunt of both the girls, Tammy Russo.

Tammy, I want to get back to you. Do you have any thoughts with anybody in the area -- and I`ll ask this of Misty as well -- acting strangely? Was there -- have you seen any strange people, people driving around in vans, any sense that this is -- any foreshadowing whatsoever?

TAMMY RUSSO, AUNT OF MISSING GIRLS: Absolutely not. There was nothing that seemed terribly out of the ordinary. There was a little boy fishing, and he had been there a long time. I asked him as well, when I first approached and started asking random people. I said, "Did you see two little girls on a bicycle? He said "No". I said, "How long have you been here?" He said, "A long time."

So he was a little boy in Aunt T's eyes and had been there for however long seems like a long time to a little boy. No mention of his Dad being with him based on what I remember or what I've found online so far.

I know nothing about this particular show other than what I've seen here but I did find it kind of crazy that the host asked about people driving around in vans. Maybe it's a pretty common abduction question.

 

[Bootsctr]

^ This. I can understand why FBI/local LE might scale back their media appearances. But the family too, at almost the same time. Has anyone read/seen/heard anything major from any of the family since the week of the 22nd?

Not that I can remember....

 

[GGE]

Im pretty sure one of Lyrics family member said they recognized the bikes that they had actually given Lyric the bike.

Thanks! Sorry I wasn't making myself clear, though - I was thinking maybe it was someone else riding off on their bikes fast as can be, because they just "found them" and don't want anyone to witness them taking off on them.

 

[Thespyma]

Agreed, but I still can't get the stun gun scenario to make sense.

A perp wants a child, so goes out with a stun gun...but no vehicle?

He finds two children, on bikes.

He stuns both...how does he get them to stop for long enough?

Let's go with the "come and see my puppy" theory. The girls get off their bikes to see the puppy, he stuns them...then what?

How does he remove them both from the scene?

How likely is it an abductor would plan an abduction with no means to get his (stunned) victims away from the scene quickly?

I question this also. If you have one stunned girl and one afraid girl at their ages, there would be crying at the very least. It was daylight, people were near the lake. If someone acting alone took the girls in such a way, SOMEONE (and most likely multiple "someones") would see or hear something. I lean toward multiple perps or someone the girls trusted and felt at ease with. I just finished talking to my little girl who is just a little older than Lyric but looks younger. We were thinking about what kind of person could get her to come along to a house or car without her fearing them. It certainly would not be a middle aged man with an aggressive streak. We also talked about how the girls could get from the bikes to wherever (out of sight of everyone) without anyone noticing at all. Here is what we came up with-

A FEMALE, probably young late teens to 20s (maybe someone who looks much younger) who had been friendly with either both girls or Lyric. The girl after gaining their trust asks the girls if they want to go get something cold to drink at her place because it is hot outside. The girls trust her and she might even resemble a relative or trusted neighbour/friend of the family. No local would think anything of the girls with someone like that as being endangered.
The girls go with her and when they get far enough away, another perp joins and the girls are taken either out of the area, somewhere hidden or ...(not saying the worst here). Using a female who is seen as innocuous or trustworthy goes very far in making people, especially children lower their guard.

In my military career I was used to make my targets feel at ease. I did not look like a soldier. I looked like a typical innocent, sweet girl who trusted the world and so people either did not notice me during covert ops or they thought I could not possibly be who I really was. Human nature is to see people as either creepy and suspicious or innocent and trustworthy and by sight alone we are often wrong. Ted Bundy is a perfect example. He was the all around sweet looking guy with manners or at times the vulnerable guy who needed assistance (when he faked injuries).

It seems it would just be too obvious for one lone creepy guy to take them without locals seeing something and their inner gut alarms going off loudly.
Maybe someone saw the girls with a young female, talking or playing with her for weeks before they went missing? :moo:

:cupcake: No real reason for the cute cupcake except it is so cute ...and a cupcake!

 

[SK_Hunter]

As far as the bump and run, when I was a child, I got "bumped" by a car. I was riding down the street and an older gentleman in a HUGE car came out of nowhere and hit me (he was pulling out of his driveway). It was hard enough to knock me over (I had looked to be sure no one was coming first - always did). Luckily, he felt the bump and stopped. I had a few scrapes and bruises but my bike was fine. Just wanted to throw that out there - it could be possible to bump a bike and not cause remarkable damage.

What about bumping a bike with another bike? Like the perp runs into one of the girls, knocks them off their bike, then offers to take them home? Or, claims they live by the lake and offers to walk the girls to their house for a bandaid. Or even rollerblades - could run into them and pretend they (the perp) was hurt (could do this with bike as well), ask for assistance getting to car. Take RBs off, or if on bike, ask the girls to set their bikes down and walk his/her bike to their car for them. Then the perp has both girls by their car and could have taken it a step further by asking them to help them put the bike in the trunk/on the rack/in the back (if a van).

My other thought relates to the purse being discarded. What if the perps brought a puppy(s) or dog(s) with them and let the pup/dog loose, then pretended the pup/dog had escaped and called out for the girls to help them catch the dog. Once the girls get it, they ask them to help them back to their car. Or just being kids, maybe the girls just wanted to pet the dog/pup and the perp says they have to go but the girls can hold the dog for them and walk them to their car?

Just a few different things I thought of while reading today. All just IMHO, and all just random thoughts.

Without even being hit by a vehicle, kids fall off bikes, jump off them, drop them and generally discard them without much care. But they do not look "damaged". So being knocked off the bike without it sustaining major damage is still a possibility here.

 

[123ABC]

If someone borrowed someones paddleboat (Im thinking it would be someone who knew the paddleboat owners such as Neighbors ,Friends ,Family)coming into the back yard and borrowing it!! ...Like a complete strange person/s would go float around in someone elses boat in the middle of the day yah sure...Usually when kids or thiefs do something wrong they wouldnt want to do it where they could be seen!! Yes It could happen I Suppose but I dont really think thats realistic. Now Why???? would that person be frightened to come forward? Now if it was indeed borrowed in the first place 4 real... Its not a big deal really & like around here the neighbors wouldnt care especially if you asked prior once before. (?) wonder if they borrowed it out ever before most likey Im thinking BTW !!People around here r pretty friendly and would be like yah yah go ahead borrow it whenver, I suppose if u have yourself a crabby neighbor thats possible too u hear of them but then why even bother u might get your butt kicked or worse . SO who borrowed it?? If it was borrowed should of come forward by now. I suppose the owners have been cleared already too, like the 200 sex offenders in a 24 hour period. I have a feeling the detectives they know more then theyr letting onto thats why this all seems so off?? Thats okay I guess whatever it takes.

 

[Bootsctr]

Yay I finally found it! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins? We`re trying to help find them with the family of really both girls because they`re cousins. But Lyric Cook`s mom is with us as well as her sister, the aunt of both the girls, Tammy Russo.

Tammy, I want to get back to you. Do you have any thoughts with anybody in the area -- and I`ll ask this of Misty as well -- acting strangely? Was there -- have you seen any strange people, people driving around in vans, any sense that this is -- any foreshadowing whatsoever?

TAMMY RUSSO, AUNT OF MISSING GIRLS: Absolutely not. There was nothing that seemed terribly out of the ordinary. There was a little boy fishing, and he had been there a long time. I asked him as well, when I first approached and started asking random people. I said, "Did you see two little girls on a bicycle? He said "No". I said, "How long have you been here?" He said, "A long time."

So he was a little boy in Aunt T's eyes and had been there for however long seems like a long time to a little boy. No mention of his Dad being with him based on what I remember or what I've found online so far.

I know nothing about this particular show other than what I've seen here but I did find it kind of crazy that the host asked about people driving around in vans. Maybe it's a pretty common abduction question.

Good find! Thank you. NEver mind! I was reading it wrong.