IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[Squeeze]

Does she mean Maiden Lane? I wonder what "with the children" means.

I'll bet she meant Arbutus near where the grassy area is.

 

[MotherOcean]

I don't have a link but yes he said the bikes were fine (when someone asked the condition of them) and he said they were found at 3:58. The purse was said to be 10 feet east of the bikes and 2 feet from the lake side of the fence. I have seen people combining this info with previous info that the purse was 20 feet from the bikes. But the most current specific info said 10 feet east and 2 feet from fence.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Thanks, Jules71. Your input has been invaluable to me through out this case. I just remembered being left with the impression that he was saying there really was nothing unusual about the condition or placement of the bikes nor the condition or placement of the purse. He seemed to be saying the purse looked as if it had just been set down. He did say the purse was 10 feet east of the bikes and 2 feet from the fence. I remember that distinctly. I was wondering why some WSers were posting the purse was found 20 feet from the bikes and then I watched a video with JVM and she made that statement very early on. I think she was just mistaken.

Another thing... the girls wouldn't have had to have been taken through the wooded area. If a car came along at just the right time, they could have been taken down the bike trail and through the grassy area. A car could even be parked there and waiting for the girls to be brought around. MCM said that the family parked there at some point, not clear when, but sometime that day (assumedly after the bikes were found).

I WISH LE would just come out and say what they think happened, what is their scenerio. I know they aren't going to do that but I sure wish they would.

 

[otto]

I had some time today and wanted to experiment with some software so I came up with this ...

 

[hollyblue]

Gramma on Nancy Grace -


And then another thing I want to say is down by the lake, going, not the bike path, somebody could have snatched them along the road. If there was two people in a van, they could have thrown those kids in their van with their bikes and there`s another way to drive by the houses and get to the end of that trail and they could have chunked the bikes down there with the children.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

So Gramma is saying there is/was a way to do it. Dan also said there was. They're both locals so I'm taking it.

:dunno:

I think Gma is talking about the entrance off of Abustus...and that most people utilize the other northerly entrance off of Gilbertsville Rd? I'm assuming, because of no formal parking lot off Abustus, that most who enter the park there are locals from the neighborhood or others (like TG) entering from the other trails it connects to. So it could be a non-local who knows the trail well from just it's connectors to the others. ie: Someone who rides or runs more than 6-7 miles regularly. IMO

Just wanted to comment about the greenery between the fence and the highway. Locals say it is steep.......and there is a pic of 2-3 LEO walking that area in the search. The weeds are 5' tall and the LEO had their arms out to their sides while walking it. God Bless them...no way in hello would I be in 5' weeds. Yuk and snakes galore.

 

[otto]

I'll bet she meant Arbutus near where the grassy area is.

That, or Maiden Lane, which is far more secluded and gets to almost the same place.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I had some time today and wanted to experiment with some software so I came up with this ...

That is really nice:clap:

 

[Jules71]

Gramma on Nancy Grace -


And then another thing I want to say is down by the lake, going, not the bike path, somebody could have snatched them along the road. If there was two people in a van, they could have thrown those kids in their van with their bikes and there`s another way to drive by the houses and get to the end of that trail and they could have chunked the bikes down there with the children.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

So Gramma is saying there is/was a way to do it. Dan also said there was. They're both locals so I'm taking it.

:dunno:

It sounds like Grandma thinks two people in a van (I almost typed white van) grabbed the girls off the street on their way to the lake and then drove down to Arbutus/Maiden and ditched the bikes on the path.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[SapphireSteel]

It sounds like Grandma thinks two people in a van (I almost typed white van) grabbed the girls off the street on their way to the lake and then drove down to Arbutus/Maiden and ditched the bikes on the path.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Yes it does, doesn't it?

LOL@ white van.

Is there any other type?

:maddening:

 

[otto]

Thanks, Jules71. Your input has been invaluable to me through out this case. I just remembered being left with the impression that he was saying there really was nothing unusual about the condition or placement of the bikes nor the condition or placement of the purse. He seemed to be saying the purse looked as if it had just been set down. He did say the purse was 10 feet east of the bikes and 2 feet from the fence. I remember that distinctly. I was wondering why some WSers were posting the purse was found 20 feet from the bikes and then I watched a video with JVM and she made that statement very early on. I think she was just mistaken.

Another thing... the girls wouldn't have had to have been taken through the wooded area. If a car came along at just the right time, they could have been taken down the bike trail and through the grassy area. A car could even be parked there and waiting for the girls to be brought around. MCM said that the family parked there at some point, not clear when, but sometime that day (assumedly after the bikes were found).

I WISH LE would just come out and say what they think happened, what is their scenerio. I know they aren't going to do that but I sure wish they would.

I was confused about the 20'. I was looking for related articles because I seem to remember that the phone was a couple of feet from the purse ... couldn't find a link. Ten feet east of the bikes, 2 feet away from the fence, lakeside. Thanks to you and Jules.

 

[Copper]

It sounds like Grandma thinks two people in a van (I almost typed white van) grabbed the girls off the street on their way to the lake and then drove down to Arbutus/Maiden and ditched the bikes on the path.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

That actually makes sense at the moment. You and your buddy are local. You know the area. You grab the girls. You decide to stage the bikes by the lake. You drive up Maiden Lane and walk the bikes to the open gate. And one of you has a stroke of genius and you put the purse on the LAKE SIDE of the fence. Maybe the bikes alone wouldn't be enough to convince LE the girls are in the lake. But if the purse is right there by the water.....

 

[SouthernMom]

I'm saddened beyond sad that the girls are still missing tonight. I know statistically this is bad,very bad. The chances of a safe return IMO now are very slim. I'm afraid of what the girls may have endured. I feel sick. I pray they are found and brought home. Imoo.

I too pray that they will come home safe and alive. However, know that Elizabeth and Lyric can be on the good end of the statistics. Jaycee Dugard, Scott Hornbeck, Elizabeth Smart, Steven Stainer, and Shasta Groene were all rescued and brought home alive. I realize that what happened to them in between was horrific, but there is/was hope for recovery for all of them.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I can't remember who made the comment earlier but where WERE all the joggers, bikers, walkers etc. the day the girls disappeared? Why did only 1 maybe 2 people see them? There is something hinky about the lake story. Now I also wonder if the girls made it to the lake that day. IMO

 

[CHERIE.T]

I too pray that they will come home safe and alive. However, know that Elizabeth and Lyric can be on the good end of the statistics. Jaycee Dugard, Scott Hornbeck, Elizabeth Smart, Steven Stainer, and Shasta Groene were all rescued and brought home alive. I realize that what happened to them in between was horrific, but there is/was hope for recovery for all of them.

Abductions seldom end with the child returning home.

But I will continue with hope and prayers. :moo:

 

[otto]

That actually makes sense at the moment. You and your buddy are local. You know the area. You grab the girls. You decide to stage the bikes by the lake. You drive up Maiden Lane and walk the bikes to the open gate. And one of you has a stroke of genius and you put the purse on the LAKE SIDE of the fence. Maybe the bikes alone wouldn't be enough to convince LE the girls are in the lake. But if the purse is right there by the water.....

That's very devious. So the grandmother thinks that they and their bikes were grabbed while crossing a street along the trail between home and the gate. The perps then drove the short distance down Maiden Lane (had to be familiar with the area), one person held the girls while the other carried two bikes down the lane, along the water, through the gate and left the purse nearby ... all a plan to delay any real search for the girls ... which wasn't really delayed because more than a thousand volunteers covered 12 arcres over two weekends. It did perplex everyone ... if the bikes had been left on the side of the road, the lake wouldn't have been drained ... which obviously took valuable time.

I finally understand the discussion about whether boys and girls use a kickstand. I'd have to say that girls use a kickstand and boys are laying their bikes on the ground as they step off the pedal. If the cyclist's tip is related to the girl's bikes, and the bikes were laying on the ground, I could believe that someone else put them there. I had never considered the possibility that they and their bikes were grabbed on the way to the park, or that the perps were so devious.

I'm going to look at the maps and see which roads we might be looking at ...

 

[Copper]

That's very devious. So the grandmother thinks that they and their bikes were grabbed while crossing a street along the trail between home and the gate. The perps then drove the short distance down Maiden Lane (had to be familiar with the area), one person held the girls while the other carried two bikes down the lane, along the water, through the gate and left the purse nearby ... all a plan to delay any real search for the girls ... which wasn't really delayed because more than a thousand volunteers covered 12 arcres over two weekends. It did perplex everyone ... if the bikes had been left on the side of the road, the lake wouldn't have been drained ... which obviously took valuable time.

I finally understand the discussion about whether boys and girls use a kickstand. I'd have to say that girls use a kickstand and boys are laying their bikes on the ground as they step off the pedal. If the cyclist's tip is related to the girl's bikes, and the bikes were laying on the ground, I could believe that someone else put them there. I had never considered the possibility that they and their bikes were grabbed on the way to the park, or that the perps were so devious.

A lot of the elements come together here. For instance, bumping and running. The perps could have caught sight of the girls on the trail through town and caught up with them somewhere south before the trail turns west towards the lake. Then, when the girls are crossing a street, yeah, bump one of them. Or just come to a stop right in front of them. Or lure them. Any of those work.

Inside the van, that is where the perps use a stun gun to immediately immobilize both girls. No need to hurry then, so while one perp drives to the lake, the other takes care of the girls with duct tape.

At the lake, the van is under cover on Maiden Lane and the girls are secure. Again, the perps don't have to rush. Just a couple of guys with a couple of bikes on a bike trail on a sunny day. They place the bikes on the ground (as Otto and others have mentioned males tend to do) by the gate. They decide to put the purse near the water, on the lakeside of the fence. If MotherOcean is correct, the purse is set down only ten feet east of the bikes, which is the width of the bike trail. Not far at all.

So, for all anyone knows after the girls are found to be missing, they were at the lake and are very probably in the lake. The perps safely keep the girls hidden away. Only after the lake is drained and conclusively searched, a week later, do the authorities call it an abduction. And of course, then attention is immediately focused on the family, as it seemed to have been the weekend of the 21st when family members stopped cooperating. And then after the 24th, the silence begins.

I'm still up in the air about if the girls are being kept or not. But I'm still leaning towards alive.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I found out meth is a federal crime in Iowa. I must have missed posts about it & those involved with meth crimes. hmmm I'm on the strait and narrow now boy!

http://www5.semo.edu/criminal/medfels/Meth & the Law.htm

 

[Sunlight]

Best scenario is to hope they were abducted in relation to the pending trial, and that they will be released somewhere if the perps no longer have fear being ratted on. If that is the case, then my hope is that LE busts their sorry butts and rescue the girls in the meantime.

If it was pervs...then the outcome will be bad. Drug trafficking, they could still be alive. What is the most likely scenario? So puzzling.

 

[nikb]

Where the Maiden Lane meets the trail, the trail has fences on both sides.

Ohh gotcha. Thank you, my mistake. I think I was confusing the fences with the gate. After re-looking at the pictures I see that was really off. Thank you for clarifying. I'll see if I can still edit/delete my old post so it doesn't confuse anyone else.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think Gma is talking about the entrance off of Abustus...and that most people utilize the other northerly entrance off of Gilbertsville Rd? I'm assuming, because of no formal parking lot off Abustus, that most who enter the park there are locals from the neighborhood or others (like TG) entering from the other trails it connects to. So it could be a non-local who knows the trail well from just it's connectors to the others. ie: Someone who rides or runs more than 6-7 miles regularly. IMO

Just wanted to comment about the greenery between the fence and the highway. Locals say it is steep.......and there is a pic of 2-3 LEO walking that area in the search. The weeds are 5' tall and the LEO had their arms out to their sides while walking it. God Bless them...no way in hello would I be in 5' weeds. Yuk and snakes galore.

Even worse than snakes! TICKS!!!

Now I feel the need to check my scalp...

Not only would a vehicle pulling off the interstate and heading to that hole in the fence be ridiculously obvious to the rest of the bumper to bumper traffic, I think the slope is steep enough that the only way to go down it without rolling would be straight down the slope.

But a vehicle trying to get onto the trail through that hole in the fence would not be able to make the turn onto the trail. The trail is only 10 feet wide and so a vehicle would need to approach at less than a 90 degree angle in order to make the turn.

Deviating off the straight on that slope, though, would almost certainly roll the vehicle attempting it.

The angles and geometry are all wrong for such an attempt.

And that isn't even mentioning how obvious it would be if a vehicle had gone through that hole in the fence. It's overgrown with weeds that would have been knocked down in a very obvious manner.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I can't remember who made the comment earlier but where WERE all the joggers, bikers, walkers etc. the day the girls disappeared? Why did only 1 maybe 2 people see them? There is something hinky about the lake story. Now I also wonder if the girls made it to the lake that day. IMO

Just because there hasn't been any mention in the media, doesn't mean other witnesses don't exist. LE always asks witnesses not to talk to the media. Having two go to the media is about par for the course.

Maybe there aren't any witnesses. But lack of media stories about them does not equal lack of witnesses.