IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[GrainneDhu]

Shifting focus a little bit....although we can't confirm that the girls voluntarily went to the lake...we know for a fact that the perp was there. He/she/they... either took the girls from there or went there to dispose of the bikes and purse. So looking at this from the perps perspective...from the spot where the bikes/purse were...what is the easiest route in and out to go undetected? Maiden Lane?

Definitely Maiden Lane.

Even my husband, who stands 5 foot tall, would have looked out of place wheeling Elizabeth's bicycle. She is only 4 foot 1 inch tall; her bicycle would be noticeably too small for an adult to ride. Being seen with a bicycle that small would be memorable (one hopes, anyway).

 

[RNER]

I'm referring to the river access that is 2 blocks from the Collins house, not 2 miles South across the highway. I'm wondering why the family didn't immediately think to look in areas closer to home, like parks and river pathways ... why drive 1.5 miles to Meyers Lake - unless someone knew that the girls were inclined to go to the lake, or were interested in going to Meyers Lake.

Thanks for rephrasing what I posted earlier today...maybe your words will be clearer...LOL

 

[cindersoot]

I'd like to add to my last comment that maybe it evidence that is being kept.

 

[gregjrichards]

It's good loads of tips appear to still be coming in and people are not starting to forget about the girls. Hopefully a useful tip will come in at some point.

http://www.kcautv.com/story/19206757/iowa-police-flooded-with-tips-on-missing-girls

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Iowa-Police-Flooded-With-Tips-on-Missing-Girls--165106456.html

 

[GrainneDhu]

Hi everybody! Another thing that makes me the girls were at the lake is Lyric's disappearance 4 days earlier. It was in the JVM interview with MCM and DC. DC started talking about this had just happened about 4 days earlier and MCM butted in when he started talking about calling LE and explained Lyric was not that far away to begin with. She was supposed to have been at the park, but they could not find her at the park. I believe it is possible Lyric could have gone to the lake that day.

SBM

Except that Lyric was in Waterloo the day she was late, not Evansdale.

It's possible she made it to Meyer's Lake that day but it would require adult help. And since she had 11 year old cousin KB with her, I doubt they had adult help.

 

[otto]

It depends on how many perps there were.

If there was one, he somehow enticed the girls to get off their bikes and follow him.

If there was two perps, they leapt out and grabbed the girls as they biked past.

The positioning of the bikes when found is important in deciding this, and it disturbs me that we have two different reports on this...and no links.

:moo:

Okay, so one or two perps grabbed the girls at their bikes ... then what. They're all standing between two fences. Where do they go next?

The positioning of the bikes, according to police, is that they were leaning against the fence when Abben arrived at the scene. Police have not acknowledged that the cyclist's sighting of a bike or two on the path is connected with the missing girls. The bikes have been said to be near or next to the gate that leads to the drainage pipe. The gate was unlocked. The purse was found on the lakeside of the fence, 10 feet east of the bikes and 2 feet away from the fence.

 

[tlcya]

We just discussed the tracking to the water's edge, and it was Misty that said that. Not sure if someone else said it too, but I know it's been reported from several sources that it was Misty.....here's another source I just ran across, lol


Misty Cook-Morrissey, Lyric's mother, told CNN that after smelling the scent pads Monday, the dogs ran around the lake and stopped at the water's edge.


http://www.turnto23.com/news/31280159/detail.html

This comes up more and more often in cases. MSM has a bad habit of paraphrasing. A witness states something. One reporter for some MSM outlet paraphrases it, sometimes giving it an inaccurate spin or making erroneous assumptions about the meaning behind the original statement. One source prints/airs it then another source prints/airs its interpretation of the meaning of source one or two's words and so forth. A really bad game of telephone results.

I think that is where some folks mistrust taking some things reported in MSM as fact.

I give direct quotes top billing

MSM articles second (I do not take HLN as seriously as other MSM sources tho because much misinformation comes from the programs aired there IMO)

Thats just my practice tho. Not telling anyone else how to choose their news.

 

[Eileen730]

Okay ... let's run with that. Let's suppose that a perp had first contact with the girls on the double fenced path next to the gate (at the drainage pipe) ... what happens next?

He tells them to leave the bikes there and go thru the opening where it is unlatched and they do he then put the girls in the vehicle and tosses the purse over the fence

 

[Wishbone]

This comes up more and more often in cases. MSM has a bad habit of paraphrasing. A witness states something. One reporter for some MSM outlet paraphrases it, sometimes giving it an inaccurate spin or making erroneous assumptions about the meaning behind the original statement. One source prints/airs it then another source prints/airs its interpretation of the meaning of source one or two's words and so forth. A really bad game of telephone results.

I think that is where some folks mistrust taking some things reported in MSM as fact.

I give direct quotes top billing

MSM articles second (I do not take HLN as seriously as other MSM sources tho because much misinformation comes from the programs aired there)

Thats just my practice tho. Not telling anyone else how to choose their news.

I don't even call them reporters anymore because for the most part they are not. They are simply REPEATERS.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't remember msm or any other source referring to the distance or even which way the bikes were faced. I may be wrong.

Do you mean when the bikes were found by the firefighter, or when they (or two other bikes) were seen when TG swerved to miss them?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Funny, after last week and all the hubbub about white vans in general and a white van astro involved in teh attempted abduction of the 5 yr old in Cedar Rapids, I left work and low and behold, in the parking lot of the business next door was an entire fleet of White Astro company work vans.

One of our members posted last week that part of the commonality of white vans was that many companies have fleets of company vehicles that are used by employees. As those fleets age and become less of an asset and are replaced - those vans are often sold to private individuals, hence the seeming plethora of white "work" type vans on the roads today.

My DH is a contractor and we ourselves had three white utility vans on the road along with our trucks and other equipment at any one time.

Maybe white vans are the new black helicopters...

Maybe LE should be checking out Area 51!

 

[otto]

He tells them to leave the bikes there and go thru the opening where it is unlatched and they do he then put the girls in the vehicle and tosses the purse over the fence

The part about the purse doesn't work. They could go through the fence and then walk towards the treed area around Maiden Lane, but the purse had to be left beside the fence at the time the girls would have been abducted from the gate area.

The girls could have been abducted at the gate and forced to walk to Maiden Lane, or the girls could have been abducted on their way to the park and then it would only take a few minutes to drive to Maiden Lane, leave the bikes by the gate, and drive away.

The dog tracking information would be the same whether the girls were abducted on the trail or their bikes were placed there by someone parked on Maiden Lane.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I took the time to search for the fact that Abben said that when he saw the bikes, they were leaning against the fence. This information was released on July 18 and reposted on this website on July 30. Here is the link:

Post number 272; at the 8:47 time mark.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180309&page=11

'One bike had a kick stand, the other didn't. When he got there the bikes were leaning against the fence but he says that he can't say who leaned the bikes against the fence.'

Otto, thank you so much for doing that search. I knew I remembered Abben saying that but I could not come up with the right google terms to make a reasonable search feasible. Searching WS itself never occurred to me.

Thanks again.

 

[otto]

They are somehow enticed/forced into a car and driven away.

Is there a glaring error in my thoughts?

tia

:moo:

Where is the car and how does a perp get the girls to that car without being seen by the slowed traffic on the highway or by anyone using the trail (like the cyclist at 12:20)?

 

[cindersoot]

Do you mean when the bikes were found by the firefighter, or when they (or two other bikes) were seen when TG swerved to miss them?

I don't know, at this point Im so confused about those bikes. LOL.

 

[lishac23]

Okay ... let's run with that. Let's suppose that a perp had first contact with the girls on the double fenced path next to the gate (at the drainage pipe) ... what happens next?

IDK Otto...I'm an unlight firecracker ready to explode with possibilities.

I have a couple ideas though...the perp is someone (s) known to at least one of them. Tells one, meet me by the drainage pipe at Myers Lake. Get there, takes them through the woods. The spot where the purse is found may have been the first point of them realizing something was wrong...maybe one of the girls changed their mind and wanted to go back...struggle happens but by then they're out of anybody's sight. They get thrown in the car (parked on Maiden Lane) and they drive off.

Two... They see the open gate, stop to go in to check it out (she takes her purse with her)...There's someone(s) already hanging/hiding out in that area, maybe doing something there not supposed to, snatch the girls and drag them through the woods (drops purse) put them in the car, drive off. With this possibility I don't think there was someone lying in wait for the perfect target. It doesn't sound like this would be an ideal target spot considering how less traveled it is (by kids alone anyway). I think in this scenario it would have been a crime of convenience (i hate to use that term).

 

[CHERIE.T]

Otto, I just love your graphics and I'm jealous of your skills! But I did want to note that at one point or another, the girls must have left that orange path, because we know the Carpenters saw them ride by on Lake Ave. So if they were abducted as Grandma Cook says (shoved in a van and bikes dumped at the lake), it happened VERY close to the lake, because it had to happen after Lake Ave.

That's a long way for 2 little girls to ride their bike imo.
Seeing this map opened my eyes a little more.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm referring to the river access that is 2 blocks from the Collins house, not 2 miles South across the highway. I'm wondering why the family didn't immediately think to look in areas closer to home, like parks and river pathways ... why drive 1.5 miles to Meyers Lake - unless someone knew that the girls were inclined to go to the lake, or were interested in going to Meyers Lake.

The river near the Collins house was exactly the area Ollipop was talking about.

 

[SapphireSteel]

This comes up more and more often in cases. MSM has a bad habit of paraphrasing. A witness states something. One reporter for some MSM outlet paraphrases it, sometimes giving it an inaccurate spin or making erroneous assumptions about the meaning behind the original statement. One source prints/airs it then another source prints/airs its interpretation of the meaning of source one or two's words and so forth. A really bad game of telephone results.

I think that is where some folks mistrust taking some things reported in MSM as fact.

I give direct quotes top billing

MSM articles second (I do not take HLN as seriously as other MSM sources tho because much misinformation comes from the programs aired there IMO)

Thats just my practice tho. Not telling anyone else how to choose their news.

Absolutely there are some chitty reporters around with zero pride in their work.

The msm source I am considering is Nancy Grace, while obviously not exactly a temple of transparency, it is without doubt a very popular and well run programme.

The reporter she discusses the dogs with is actually in Evansdale.

I suspect that large news corporations like CNN are slightly more careful about fact checking, as things are broadcast nationally it would be too easy for them to be sued for misleading the public as they reach such a wide audience.

NOT that I'm claiming they're foolproof at all! But I simply cannot see how misreporting the dogs activites could possibly result in higher ratings or any sort of benefit to CNN...further, I believe Jim Spellman has a very good reputation.

They didn't just refer to the scent and dogs as a side issue, it was actually focused on, repeated, re-explained.

Here is the discussion between Jim and Nancy regarding the dogs -

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace, I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Live to Cedar Falls suburbs. A massive search is under way at this hour for two little girls, 10-year-old Lyric and little cousin, 8-year-old Elizabeth, the two girls riding their bikes, downtown Evansdale, lunchtime, broad daylight.

Tonight, the search for the two little girl cousins just 8 and 10. And joining us exclusively in primetime tonight, their families who are literally begging for your help to bring their girls home alive.

We are taking your calls. I want to go straight out, before I go to the girls` family, to CNN correspondent Jim Spellman, who`s joining us there at Meyers Lake. Jim, thank you for being with us.

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Nancy. This investigation currently is on two tracks. On the search and rescue track, after several days of hundreds of people from the community searching fields and wooded areas all around here and finding nothing, they`ve decided to drain this lake to be absolutely sure there`s nothing important to the investigation in this lake.

The second track is the law enforcement track, that the FBI has been added to the mix. Just yesterday, FBI scent dogs came here, worked with the family to get scents out of shoes from these little girls to try to find any sort of lead. We know that they did get a scent and they were able to follow it for some distance. We`re not sure where that`ll lead them or if it will become an important part of this investigation yet, Nancy.

<Mod Snip>

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

Spellman isn't phoning it in, IMO...he made the trip to Iowa and saw these things with his own eyes.

:dunno:

 

[CHERIE.T]

But Grandma had already been at the lake earlier, in her initial search at 12:30. She said she drove all through town and the parks and the Lake Meyers area. But then when Aunt Tammy came, they went straight to the lake and stayed searching there, calling LE to come there. So I do wonder why, because there are other places they could have been, so why did they concentrate on the lake? Aunt T. said it was her gut feeling. I am just curious why that is.

:gthanks: katydid23!
I knew I wasn't imagining that Grandma had already been to the lake. :moo: