IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[craftybatchy]

If the girls left their eyeglasses at home that day, what would be the point of including it in the descriptions?

If they were used to leaving their glasses at home, it seems unlikely to me that their behaviour would be an overt giveaway to their need for glasses.

Were these glasses required for reading only or did one/both of them require them for regular, daily use ?

If one or both of them required glasses ALL the time, but these glasses were not worn during the alleged bike ride, well, RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG. Being able to see is kind of important when riding a bike. That gives more support to the theory that the bikes were staged.

 

[mahoolin]

They can triangulate a call, however. There are times where they can locate basic area on the 911 only phones. Typically, with any phone that is 911 only or appears to have no signal...when you dial you may not even hear EMS, but you just keep talking. If it hangs up, you do the same thing, talk and talk. Thay can hear you, due to sattelite services, but you may not hear them.

Thanks for the info - Didn't have time to read through it all. Here though is another that at a glance looks like it explains in plain english some of what the FCC site talked about:

Here's new one - I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there, it's good info for us all to know
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1

Here's the original again:
http://www.fcc.gov/guides/wireless-911-services

 

[Aunt B]

Thank you for the photo of Elizabeth wearing glasses! Wow ... I'm lost for words. We have two missing children, at least one owns a pair of glasses but the missing persons posters and images completely omit that important detail. to me, that's like omitting eye color. It's a detail that will help identify her ... because if she needs glasses and she's not wearing them, it will be evident to some people.

Something to consider: non-prescription glasses as an "accessory" are actually pretty popular with girls that age. My own daughter is 11 and she very much wanted a pair last year (which she wears often, lol - even though her eyesight is just fine). They sell them at Claire's (a very popular accessory shop with girls, aged toddler to teen), among other places. They are cheap, and easy to find. So, the photos of the girls wearing glasses may very well just be these accessory type non-prescription glasses.

 

[Considering]

I was a professional copy editor (for small local presses) once upon a time. Catching typos like that is a lot harder than you'd think.

All I know is that the Evansdale PD response was prompt, vigorous and they called in the big guns (DCI and FBI) very quickly.

Setting all that aside to judge them on a single typo seems unfair to me.

GrainneDhu, I agree with you about the typos. I've never been a copy editor but I know just from reading over what I write myself that I miss typos very easily. I already know what I meant to type and when I check over it, I "see" what I think I wrote. It's certainly understandable that it could happen. It does concern me that these two girls have been missing for three and half weeks now and no one has corrected it. Someone, somewhere, should have noticed it and corrected it given that long a period of time (assuming it's not just very recently been posted).

I agree as well that LE in Evansdale did respond very quickly when they were alerted by the family. Apparently, they came right to the lake and began looking for Lyric and Liz and they did find the bicycles. However, I am very concerned that the Meyers Lake area was not taped off from the beginning. There are pictures of people around the lake area on Friday after the bicycles were found and on Saturday, there were hundreds of volunteers from Evansdale and the surrounding area who came to search and were, again, around the lake. LE did not tape off the area until a few days after the girls went missing. I, too, am concerned that something of evidentiary value may have been there but is now gone forever. Maybe there wasn't anything. We will never know the answer.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

I agree. It could have been someone even picking out another puppy at the same time. It would be so easy for someone who knew she had a puppy to use that as a manipulative tool. Come see my puppy or even your puppy is sick, I am here to pick you up. She would recognize the person from the "puppy place" and being a child would assume that was a safe person and not put that person in a stranger danger catagory.

Just like with Somer Thompson. She knew the dog and wanted to pet it, she walked up to the garage and went into the house because she knew the dog lived there, and knew a child that lived there as well. Once she was in the house, he closed the door and that was it.

He had her body in a tote and had it out of the house in less than 1/2 an hour. He went back, got her backpack and clothes, and took them out to the garbage. Everything was done within 1 hour, she had barely been reported missing by then.

I hope LE is keeping their evidence close to their chest, and have a POI already, and they're just waiting for the right time to arrest the creep-just like with Somer Thompson.

 

[LucyOso]

Were these glasses required for reading only or did one/both of them require them for regular, daily use ?

If one or both of them required glasses ALL the time, but these glasses were not worn during the alleged bike ride, well, RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG. Being able to see is kind of important when riding a bike. That gives more support to the theory that the bikes were staged.

It depends on if the girls were near sighted or far sighted. Reading glasses would not help and could be deangerous on a bike. It is not uncommon for kids to need glasses for school work or what not and to not wear them at other times. They can hinder eye sight at other times, thats why many kids lose glasses frequently, because they take them off to see...

 

[Jax49]

One question I have about the timeline... has LE/FBI every said they have a unified timeline and given definite times and locations or are we just using the cctv said 12:11 (fast/slow/whatever) and TG said 12:20ish.

Without some kind of independent reference to align these times, I am getting very uncomfortable with the timeline.

IIRC LE used 12:15 as the last time seen and 3:58/4:00 as the time the bikes were found. The FBI was quoted at one point saying a 'runner' saw the bikes at the lake and was able to pinpoint the time, but the FBI did not say what time that was. We don't know if she meant TG the cyclist or someone else.

So, bottom line, 12:15 and 3:58/4:00 are official. MOO

 

[MNDad]

I think she is 5'2 or so. Many threads ago someone mentioned she was the biggest girl, tall and heaviest in the lower grades at the school. I think that is a typo as well.

All other reports put her at 4'11".

 

[mahoolin]

You know, if it weren't for Mr. Carpenter's report of seeing the girls that day, I would agree with this 100%. The reason I think he did see them is because he reported that LE came to his house that same evening (Friday evening) when they were out talking to the people in the neighborhood. So, I'm thinking that he wouldn't have gotten the days mixed up because it was the same day. Do you think he is mistaken about it being Lyric & Elizabeth that he saw? Just wondering your thinking on this because, if he didn't see them, then my alternate theory is that of two perps. who were traveling through the area.

BBM

Does anyone know how wide an area they canvassed that evening? Didn't Ollipop say he lived within a couple of blocks of the lake and no one ever knocked on his door, and IIRC there have been a couple others mentioned here too?

Just curious how they determined which homes to visit?
Doesn't Mr C live a couple of blocks away too? (I'm not a map person :blushing: ) Not pointing fingers in any direction, just concerned something important might have been missed those early hours, and not just the lake area.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

One thing that's bothered me about the investigation was they didn't segregate garbage for 5 days. Not only was it 5 days later, but it was only Evansdale's garbage. With Waterloo, Cedar Falls, Denver, Dunkerton, Parkersburg, Waverly and a few more to boot within a 30 minute radius of Evansdale, it seems like you'd want to look at more than just Evansdale garbage.

 

[Sere-nity]

New angle - I think...

Let's speculate that most locals now don't know about Maiden Lane.

Who would you think knows that Maiden Lane exists?

Who would know that Maiden Lane exists and may have current ties to the area?

Who would know that Maiden Lane exists, may have current ties to the area but may live away from the area?

 

[MNDad]

I agree. the only thing that may be of value is to know who the house was shown to and who the agent was. If there are records of that. Some houses are only shown to prequalified buyers, so there would be a list. Others are shown to anyone. And that anyone could easily look over the shoulder of the showing agent and see the code for the lock box and have access to the house.

I know a realtor in our area and he told me that they use the same code for all their lock boxes and all the other brokers in town do the same thing. They all know each others codes.

 

[roseofsharon]

Regarding TG and seeing the bikes.

It sounds like TG was flying on his bike. He describes having to swerve to miss running into the bikes.

TG didn't stop and pick the bikes up and lean them against the fence, at least he has never said he did this, so it sounds like he was riding very fast and then all of a sudden something was in his path, he swerved and kept riding.

Could one get a really good look at these bikes this way. TG may have seen someone elses bikes, so I have to dismiss TG's timeline regarding when he saw the bikes and his timeline doesn't fit with the cctv timeline.

Just imo.

 

[SapphireSteel]

If you adhere to the "official" timeline, there is hours during which anything could have happened, we know nothing more, and the last 3 weeks of posting have been useless.

If you consider the UNOFFICIAL official timeline via Mr Pahl, it's 8 minutes. Which works so well it's scary.

:moo:

 

[mahoolin]

I'm not necessarily supporting the ditched/relocating bike theory, but I do want to say that the punk, flat-billed cap, trashy kids around here all seem to ride bikes that are way to small for them. They do look stupid, but it is so common that they no longer look odd.

you're right - with their knees up to their ears, and it goes right along with the droopy britches they wear hanging off their hips looking like a baby walking along with a loaded diaper! :floorlaugh:

sorry OT but couldn't resist

 

[Considering]

New angle - I think...

Let's speculate that most locals now don't know about Maiden Lane.

Who would you think knows that Maiden Lane exists?

Who would know that Maiden Lane exists and may have current ties to the area?

Who would know that Maiden Lane exists, may have current ties to the area but may live away from the area?

-Neighbors (present and past) of the lot where Maiden Lane is located

-Maintenance staff - those who keep branches, etc., cut around the sewage lift station building and around that side of the lake, those who maintain the station itself

- People who grew up in the lake area before the road became hidden as it is now.

- Surveyors

- Those who walk or ride bikes on the trail

- People who walk or jog for exercise/enjoyment around the block, etc., on the streets around Arbutus Ave.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Wouldn't there be a scent trail though. I guess I am very confused. Did LE use the dogs to track the girls back to the place they started that morning or did the dogs only search the lake shore?

Unknown.

 

[roseofsharon]

you're right - with their knees up to their ears, and it goes right along with the droopy britches they wear hanging off their hips looking like a baby walking along with a loaded diaper! :floorlaugh:

sorry OT but couldn't resist

We must live in the same town!! :floorlaugh:

 

[MotherOcean]

One thing that's bothered me about the investigation was they didn't segregate garbage for 5 days. Not only was it 5 days later, but it was only Evansdale's garbage. With Waterloo, Cedar Falls, Denver, Dunkerton, Parkersburg, Waverly and a few more to boot within a 30 minute radius of Evansdale, it seems like you'd want to look at more than just Evansdale garbage.

I found an article a few days ago that said the trash still had not been looked at. It had been separated, and still is, but it hasn't actually been looked through. I'd like to know if they have begun looking through it.

 

[katydid23]

I've been lurking occasionally since early on in this case, and wanted to catch up on all of the posts before commenting myself...but you guys/gals are too fast for me! Every time I finish a page (and I'm a speed-reader!) there are more at the end of the thread. So, I'll just jump in here if that's ok!

My thought is that these two girls, as others have suggested, were lured away by someone they had met on previous occasions, and with whom they felt comfortable (at least until things got weird, but by then it's often too late).

As a child, I was the victim of not just one, but TWO attempted abductions. One when I was 10, and one when I was 11. BOTH in broad daylight...the first literally occured in my own driveway, and the second on a busy street in the middle of town as I walked WITH A FRIEND on the sidewalk.

In the first case...the man (who was really only about 18 at the time), spent 2 weeks befriending me, "visiting" me at the park adjacent to my home every day. He first got my attention with his adorable little dog, Max, who was great at jumping to catch frisbees. This man put a lot of effort into making me think we were great friends, and that I was helping him SOOOO much by assisting in the design of the bandana that "Max" would wear in his next frisbee-catching competition. He brought me soda, he played basketball with me....totally unbeknownst to anyone in my family despite the fact that my front door was literally 500 feet away! This man, Mark, (he actually told me his real name...he is listed at the Megan's Law website...why?...because shortly after he tried to abduct me, he was arrested for raping/sodomizing some other poor child under 14 years of age that he managed to get his hands on), convinced me that we were friends. I looked forward to seeing him each day. In fact, I went into the park and *waited* for him in the mornings! The last day I saw him (before finding him on the Megan's Law website, that is), his car approached as I was standing in my driveway. He cheerily greeted me by name, all smiles, and excitedly said that he wanted to buy me some new markers for all of the artwork I'd been doing on Max's bandana. Hop in the car, he said....we'll go up to Newberry's (less than a mile from my home) and you can pick out the art supplies yourself!

I was a poor kid from a (very) broken home (even though we lived in a nice beachtown in southern California). New art supplies and a great (not to mention, handsome) buddy to hang out with was a dream come true for a girl like me. I took a step forward and immediately realized that "Max" was not in the car with Mark this time. For some reason, that terrified me, and I ran. As fast as I could go.

Had the dog been in the car, I believe I would have happily climbed right in.

Oh...and I *never* even mentioned any of this to my mother until I was about 35 years old. Just goes to show, that kids do some things we seriously don't understand sometimes.

The other incident was quite different, but it *was* an attempt by multiple men to take two girls at once, so I will describe it in a different post.

But of course, with my own history, I cannot HELP but wonder if anyone in the girls' families (or maybe even neighborhood friends?) might know if either of the girls had ever spoken of an adult "friend"...maybe someone with a "really cute dog"...someone that several neighborhood children might know of, but who has never been convicted of anything so wouldn't be an RSO. Or perhaps, someone who had ever "paid" them for cleaning their yards, bringing their mail up, etc.???

First of all :welcome: :fireworks: to W. S.



Great post. And I totally agree with your 'grooming' scenario description. I think Lyric would have been a perfect mark for someone because she had a little bit of an unsettled home life and was in that awkward growing stage that kids go through, and probably would have craved any positive attention.

And we still do not know where they were from 11:30 to 12:15, when we see them in that pking lot. I think they spent some of the morning with the perp---maybe in a house or yard or at the lake already earlier.

[And I am so happy that he left the dog at home that day. Good for you for listening to your gut feelings. ]