IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[MNDad]

I don't want to bash LE, but they are human beings and honestly I don't really feel that anyone is good at their jobs anymore. Not retail, not restaurants, not clerical, not anyone. The world is full of slackers and half wits whose days are full of "duh" moments. I just worry that we as a society are not smart enough to find these girls. Sorry about this sidetrack that has no value to the case. Just concerned and sharing.

 

[otto]

GrainneDhu, I agree with you about the typos. I've never been a copy editor but I know just from reading over what I write myself that I miss typos very easily. I already know what I meant to type and when I check over it, I "see" what I think I wrote. It's certainly understandable that it could happen. It does concern me that these two girls have been missing for three and half weeks now and no one has corrected it. Someone, somewhere, should have noticed it and corrected it given that long a period of time (assuming it's not just very recently been posted).

I agree as well that LE in Evansdale did respond very quickly when they were alerted by the family. Apparently, they came right to the lake and began looking for Lyric and Liz and they did find the bicycles. However, I am very concerned that the Meyers Lake area was not taped off from the beginning. There are pictures of people around the lake area on Friday after the bicycles were found and on Saturday, there were hundreds of volunteers from Evansdale and the surrounding area who came to search and were, again, around the lake. LE did not tape off the area until a few days after the girls went missing. I, too, am concerned that something of evidentiary value may have been there but is now gone forever. Maybe there wasn't anything. We will never know the answer.

I agree ... investigations are handled differently in different places, but I recall a case here - a year or two ago - where a young man went camping in the mountains and didn't return home when expected. Many people were prepared to start searching the area where his vehicle was found, but investigators prevented anyone from searching. They did not want anyone to mess up the scene. The missing young man was found, deceased.

 

[roseofsharon]

A longshot ... does a train stop/go through Evansdale?

 

[azuredewdrop]

A longshot ... does a train stop/go through Evansdale?

See Iowa Railroad base map link for a pdf map
http://www.iowadot.gov/iowarail/railroads/maps/maphome.htm

 

[Copper]

I don't want to bash LE, but they are human beings and honestly I don't really feel that anyone is good at their jobs anymore. Not retail, not restaurants, not clerical, not anyone. The world is full of slackers and half wits whose days are full of "duh" moments. I just worry that we as a society are not smart enough to find these girls. Sorry about this sidetrack that has no value to the case. Just concerned and sharing.

I think the problem has to do with policy, which presently seems to be to follow the evidence. From Day One and then as the days went by, LE zeroed in on the lake (and in hindsight, I admit they had excellent reason to do so). But if the girls were in the lake, either drowned or dumped, they'd be dead. And there would be nothing for LE to do for them if they were dead. But if the girls had been abducted, they could still be alive. And if they were alive, LE might still have been able to save them.

My point, as a policy LE needs to operation under the assumption missing children are alive to be found and saved and therefore the first priority is to find and save them. That might not be the most efficient use of resources, it might make LE look bad if they're wrong and it might prolong the suffering of parents and give them false hope if their child is indeed at the bottom of a lake. But I think it is a moral obligation to our missing children.

 

[cindersoot]

I noticed how we are now going towards the thoughts of looking for the remains. I know, it's been almost a month, but lets keep the faith. Maybe this will come out with a good outcome. : )

 

[otto]

New angle - I think...

Let's speculate that most locals now don't know about Maiden Lane.

Who would you think knows that Maiden Lane exists?

Who would know that Maiden Lane exists and may have current ties to the area?

Who would know that Maiden Lane exists, may have current ties to the area but may live away from the area?

Ollipop posted planning maps from 1930, 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980 and 2011 early this morning. It shows that Maiden Lane has been in existence since at least the 1930s and that it became more overgrown between the 1970s and1980s after the highway was built. I speculated that it was a party spot for local teens until the late 1970s. The grandmother certainly knew about Maiden Lane. That suggests to me two possibilities: someone in their 40s that partied there in the 70s, or the offspring of someone that partied there in the 70s and heard about the area through the parent - a parent that fondly remembers partying in the area.

 

[cindersoot]

Ollipop posted planning maps from 1930, 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980 and 2011 early this morning. It shows that Maiden Lane has been in existence since at least the 1930s and that it became more overgrown between the 1970s and1980s after the highway was built. I speculated that it was a party spot for local teens until the late 1970s. The grandmother certainly knew about Maiden Lane. That suggests to me two possibilities: someone in their 40s that partied there in the 70s, or the offspring of someone that partied there in the 70s and heard about the area through the parent - a parent that fondly remembers partying in the area.

I so agree with this!:rocker:

 

[Aunt B]

First of all :welcome: :fireworks: to W. S.



Great post. And I totally agree with your 'grooming' scenario description. I think Lyric would have been a perfect mark for someone because she had a little bit of an unsettled home life and was in that awkward growing stage that kids go through, and probably would have craved any positive attention.

And we still do not know where they were from 11:30 to 12:15, when we see them in that pking lot. I think they spent some of the morning with the perp---maybe in a house or yard or at the lake already earlier.

[And I am so happy that he left the dog at home that day. Good for you for listening to your gut feelings. ]

Thanks very much for the warm welcome!

It breaks my heart to think of another child being lured that way...because you know, I really believed that my would-be abductor cared about me...I believed in my child mind, that we were great friends, and that I was important to him, and that he needed me. These were all things he led me to believe of course, because it was obvious to him that I was unsupervised, lonely, and kind of sad (my parents had just split up, my mom worked full time, my siblings were all older and hardly around, etc. - and I'm sure I spilled my guts about all of it because I trusted him). It makes me furious to think of a little girl (in this case Lyric and/or Elizabeth) all at once realizing, too late, that this person she thought cared about her, actually means to do her great harm. It's not *just* that the person is going to hurt them...it's also that they completely betrayed them. But again, I think that's probably the most likely scenario.

I've been saying for years and years, that unsupervised children are such easy targets for these pervs. I hate that my children can't run all over town and have a "normal" childhood, either...but I know, from experience, that the predators go for the ones nobody is watching.

 

[cindersoot]

Gosh. I remember in California in the 80's I was only 12 and was approached by so many perps. I was one block from home, walking to school and some guy in a pinto stops next to me and asked if I wanted to make a hundred. I ran home and told my parents. There were many other times I was approached as a child in cali. Now in the midwest for many yrs and seeing the same crap, just freaks me out. This world is so evil. I always said, a perp needs to go to jail for life, if they abduct, abuse or kill a child.

 

[mahoolin]

Ok, gonna put myself out there, please be kind. lease: If you're dead set on the rush to the lake this probably won't interest you. (sorry, no offense)

About a theory on how a perp either meets and befriends, or notices the girls routines.... I think we might be making things too complicated.

When I was a young girl about the same age as E&L, life was all about mystery, adventure, spooks etc... My best friend and I were great adventurers and solvers of mysteries and crimes, and lovers of all animals.

So good that we were actually keeping tabs on an old empty house backed up against some woods we were convinced was haunted... We either rode our bikes or walked up all the time, keeping track of our "find", jumping up to peek in windows to get a glimpse of something.....

Only to discover much later it was NOT a haunted house, and not empty of inhabitants. It was an elderly lady's home. She no longer drove, so no car in the driveway, and yard maybe not as well groomed as it once might have been. It seemed dark and unfriendly - perfect haunted house.

To me, a scenario like that, or similar is a great setting for a perp who watches little girls to hide and wait for them.

We also went exploring in some woods - not as far away from anything as I'm sure it seemed to two little girls. We found little caves with writing on them from many eons ago (translation:druggies perverse art I'm sure) - perfect spot for a perp to get us. We were lucky. No perp came, and things we found in and around the little cave were NOT from the dark ages. No need to go into detail - use your own imagination.

Just saying - I wonder if there are any adventurous places nearby the girls might have been riding to intending to get back by the time Grandma told them to be back - maybe not heading towards the lake at all? Maybe a nest of baby birds they intended to nourish, baby rabbits? Anything. I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around the lake scenario. I can't get it to add up ,at least not yet.

Just want to bring Elizabeth and Lyric home
eace:

 

[otto]

Ok, gonna put myself out there, please be kind. lease: If you're dead set on the rush to the lake this probably won't interest you. (sorry, no offense)

About a theory on how a perp either meets and befriends, or notices the girls routines.... I think we might be making things too complicated.

When I was a young girl about the same age as E&L, life was all about mystery, adventure, spooks etc... My best friend and I were great adventurers and solvers of mysteries and crimes, and lovers of all animals.

So good that we were actually keeping tabs on an old empty house backed up against some woods we were convinced was haunted... We either rode our bikes or walked up all the time, keeping track of our "find", jumping up to peek in windows to get a glimpse of something.....

Only to discover much later it was NOT a haunted house, and not empty of inhabitants. It was an elderly lady's home. She no longer drove, so no car in the driveway, and yard maybe not as well groomed as it once might have been. It seemed dark and unfriendly - perfect haunted house.

To me, a scenario like that, or similar is a great setting for a perp who watches little girls to hide and wait for them.

We also went exploring in some woods - not as far away from anything as I'm sure it seemed to two little girls. We found little caves with writing on them from many eons ago (translation:druggies perverse art I'm sure) - perfect spot for a perp to get us. We were lucky. No perp came, and things we found in and around the little cave were NOT from the dark ages. No need to go into detail - use your own imagination.

Just saying - I wonder if there are any adventurous places nearby the girls might have been riding to intending to get back by the time Grandma told them to be back - maybe not heading towards the lake at all? Maybe a nest of baby birds they intended to nourish, baby rabbits? Anything. I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around the lake scenario. I can't get it to add up ,at least not yet.

Just want to bring Elizabeth and Lyric home
eace:

OT ... but speaking of adventures ... my son will be at the airport in 30 minutes returning from his ocean kayaking (paddling) adventure ... I've missed him.

 

[SouthernMom]

New angle - I think...

Let's speculate that most locals now don't know about Maiden Lane.

Who would you think knows that Maiden Lane exists?

Who would know that Maiden Lane exists and may have current ties to the area?

Who would know that Maiden Lane exists, may have current ties to the area but may live away from the area?

Good questions, all.

 

[cindersoot]

Is anyone here a local? That has some imput on a theory?

 

[Aunt B]

I wanted to describe the other abduction attempt from my childhood, because it involved trying to take two girls at once (simply for the sake of continuing to consider various possibilities/probabilities in relation to Lyric and Elizabeth).

Early 80's. My friend and I (both 11 years old), were walking on a sidewalk together about 1pm on a summer afternoon. This was in Ventura, CA. Ventura has a very commercial, very busy, downtown district. We were one street above this district. Cars going by, both directions. Other people walking on the sidewalk across the road. It was sunny and bright, and there were no trees or bushes hiding us from view from anyone driving or walking in the area. Very open location. We were walking with the flow of traffic.

Suddenly, a black car with very dark windows (this was when tinted windows were not the "norm" as they are now) screeches to a stop right beside us. The car was a nice car - if I had to guess now I'd say it looked like a Crown Victoria.

We are startled by the screeching sound. My friend and I had known each other our entire lives, and were more like cousins than friends. The fact that we were so in tune to each other probably saved our lives that day.

The back door on the sidewalk-side of the car flings open, and a GIANT man jumps out very quickly. He is right in front of us. He's wearing a dark, 3 piece suit, and I quickly see 3 more men inside the car, ALL wearing dark, 3 piece suits (and sunglasses). I remember thinking the man who jumped out of the car looked like Bluto from popeye. He SCREAMS, "get in the car! Get in the "f"ing car! NOW!"

Completely stunned, my friend steps towards the man as though she is going to do exactly as he instructs. She was totally in shock. I grabbed her arm and yelled, "No! RUN!" and pulled her in the opposite direction. We run across the road to the other side, but the car screeches and does a U-turn to follow us, so I grab her again, and pull her back in the opposite direction once more, and we run down a street that connects us to that very busy historic/downtown district I mentioned before.

We could hear the cars tires screeching *again*. We ran through downtown, through HOARDS of people, but we were too frightened to stop and ask for help. At least, I was. My friend was in such shock that I think she would have just done whatever I told her, so I held onto her hand and we kept running towards home (which was 1.7 miles away - I just checked it on Googlemaps).

Those men in that car chased us right through downtown. We kept zigging through alleys and tiny little walkways that went through buildings, etc. to try to lose them. But they kept finding us. We were beyond horrified. When a kid is too scared to stop and scream for help in the midst of people....you *know* they are terrified.

Within about 15 minutes, we were getting close to the home of a good friend of ours, whose mom I knew well. My plan was to run to their house. But their car wasn't out front and I was so scared that the car would see us and the men would just grab us off of the family's porch, that we ended up running down an adjacent alleway, instead. We crawled between a fence and a big trash dumpster and crouched there and hid, and cried.

And then there was the black car again. It drove slowly down the alley. My friend wet herself. Then the car must have turned around because it came back again, and drove slowly past us once more, in the opposite direction.

We crouched there and hid for sooooo long. We were too scared to come out because we were sure the car was just around a corner or something, waiting for us. I don't know how long we stayed there, but I know my friend's clothes were dry as we walked home, because she asked me if I could see any wet spots (she was embarassed). We ran most of the way home after that, staying on the busiest streets we could get to.

I think we told our parents, but I don't think the police were ever called. Maybe they thought we were exaggerating or something, I don't know. I can't think of any other reason a parent wouldn't call the cops? My mom doesn't remember it now, so asking her does me no good.

Anyway, ALL of that to say (and my apologies for the long post), that there are, groups of adults, who literally do attempt to abduct children right off of a well traveled street in broad daylight.

So, while I think the scenario of Elizabeth and Lyric being abducted by someone they were familiar with is the *most* likely scenario....clearly, the opposite could be just as true (but in that case, the bikes would've had to be staged, I would think). JMHO.

Also....about Maiden Lane....are there any photos from street level that anyone can post? Also, is it gravel?

 

[song22]

I don't want to bash LE, but they are human beings and honestly I don't really feel that anyone is good at their jobs anymore. Not retail, not restaurants, not clerical, not anyone. The world is full of slackers and half wits whose days are full of "duh" moments. I just worry that we as a society are not smart enough to find these girls. Sorry about this sidetrack that has no value to the case. Just concerned and sharing.

I can really relate to these feelings. Last year my youngest daughter became very ill. We knew that something was seriously wrong with her. But we could not get the help we needed from doctors. We had to "sleuth" for ourselves online and educate ourselves until we could really advocate for her and demand more excellence in her care. We ended up paying out of pocket to go to Mayo and found that she had a genetic condition and were able to get her the treatment she needed for her symptoms. But there were so many stupid, stupid mistakes along the way to finding answers. The diagnosis was not that difficult (though it WAS life-threatening!), it was just that so many mistakes were made because of mediocrity and carelessness.

I NEVER bashed doctors in my life. I really had faith in doctors. I'm NOT bashing LE now, but I have wondered sometimes if there aren't similar issues. You imagine everything is precise and super professional, but maybe it's not like we imagine?

 

[SouthernMom]

When I was a young girl about the same age as E&L, life was all about mystery, adventure, spooks etc... My best friend and I were great adventurers and solvers of mysteries and crimes, and lovers of all animals.

I remember being 10 as well. I read Harriet the Spy (I wanted to be a spy too) and explored the trails and wooded areas by myself and with my younger brother, often. Rode around my small town on my bike to various places and knew the older folks and the people who ran the little shops. Summer was a time for adventuring.
When I was 12, we lived in a different town, a little bigger, but same kind of people. We lived beside an old cemetery that had lots of trees and was often quiet. I often went alone to write or just be alone.

 

[azuredewdrop]

I wanted to describe the other abduction attempt from my childhood, because it involved trying to take two girls at once (simply for the sake of continuing to consider various possibilities/probabilities in relation to Lyric and Elizabeth).

Early 80's. My friend and I (both 11 years old), were walking on a sidewalk together about 1pm on a summer afternoon. This was in Ventura, CA. Ventura has a very commercial, very busy, downtown district. We were one street above this district. Cars going by, both directions. Other people walking on the sidewalk across the road. It was sunny and bright, and there were no trees or bushes hiding us from view from anyone driving or walking in the area. Very open location. We were walking with the flow of traffic.

Suddenly, a black car with very dark windows (this was when tinted windows were not the "norm" as they are now) screeches to a stop right beside us. The car was a nice car - if I had to guess now I'd say it looked like a Crown Victoria.

We are startled by the screeching sound. My friend and I had known each other our entire lives, and were more like cousins than friends. The fact that we were so in tune to each other probably saved our lives that day.

The back door on the sidewalk-side of the car flings open, and a GIANT man jumps out very quickly. He is right in front of us. He's wearing a dark, 3 piece suit, and I quickly see 3 more men inside the car, ALL wearing dark, 3 piece suits (and sunglasses). I remember thinking the man who jumped out of the car looked like Bluto from popeye. He SCREAMS, "get in the car! Get in the "f"ing car! NOW!"

Completely stunned, my friend steps towards the man as though she is going to do exactly as he instructs. She was totally in shock. I grabbed her arm and yelled, "No! RUN!" and pulled her in the opposite direction. We run across the road to the other side, but the car screeches and does a U-turn to follow us, so I grab her again, and pull her back in the opposite direction once more, and we run down a street that connects us to that very busy historic/downtown district I mentioned before.

We could hear the cars tires screeching *again*. We ran through downtown, through HOARDS of people, but we were too frightened to stop and ask for help. At least, I was. My friend was in such shock that I think she would have just done whatever I told her, so I held onto her hand and we kept running towards home (which was 1.7 miles away - I just checked it on Googlemaps).

Those men in that car chased us right through downtown. We kept zigging through alleys and tiny little walkways that went through buildings, etc. to try to lose them. But they kept finding us. We were beyond horrified. When a kid is too scared to stop and scream for help in the midst of people....you *know* they are terrified.

Within about 15 minutes, we were getting close to the home of a good friend of ours, whose mom I knew well. My plan was to run to their house. But their car wasn't out front and I was so scared that the car would see us and the men would just grab us off of the family's porch, that we ended up running down an adjacent alleway, instead. We crawled between a fence and a big trash dumpster and crouched there and hid, and cried.

And then there was the black car again. It drove slowly down the alley. My friend wet herself. Then the car must have turned around because it came back again, and drove slowly past us once more, in the opposite direction.

We crouched there and hid for sooooo long. We were too scared to come out because we were sure the car was just around a corner or something, waiting for us. I don't know how long we stayed there, but I know my friend's clothes were dry as we walked home, because she asked me if I could see any wet spots (she was embarassed). We ran most of the way home after that, staying on the busiest streets we could get to.

I think we told our parents, but I don't think the police were ever called. Maybe they thought we were exaggerating or something, I don't know. I can't think of any other reason a parent wouldn't call the cops? My mom doesn't remember it now, so asking her does me no good.

Anyway, ALL of that to say (and my apologies for the long post), that there are, groups of adults, who literally do attempt to abduct children right off of a well traveled street in broad daylight.

So, while I think the scenario of Elizabeth and Lyric being abducted by someone they were familiar with is the *most* likely scenario....clearly, the opposite could be just as true (but in that case, the bikes would've had to be staged, I would think). JMHO.

Also....about Maiden Lane....are there any photos from street level that anyone can post? Also, is it gravel?

How wonderfully brave you were and what a great friend too! How scary that must have been!

 

[cindersoot]

Night Sleuth friends, again hope tomorrow brings peace.

 

[Ollipop]

Well looking at this map, there is no way, if the cctv (Cornbelt Auctions) captured the girls on their bikes at 12:19 p.m. that TG saw the bikes at the trail at approx. 12:20 p.m. Those bikes must have been someone elses. (Adjusted time due to CA's cctv being 8 minutes slow).

Question for Ollipop: How many washrooms are scattered throughout the park. TIA

imo

One, located at the parking area across the lake from the jetty.

Does anyone know if the road crew poured new concrete the evening of the 13th? I read that and got a disturbing thought. Did they pour cement or were they laying down new asphalt? Anyone know?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

I watched them "pour" some concrete for this road: about 15-20 guys, all standing within arm's reach of a giant road-making machine that slowly crept along at a pace I'd quantify in inches/minute.

Excellent thought...bang on lunchtime...one of them must've seen SOMETHING you would think.

Unless the dip meant it was completely hidden from view right where the bikes were found, which I seem to remember. :dunno:

Locals?

I don't think this is likely, tbh. The construction activity is all on the other side of the median, and even cars passing slowly over this area from the closest lane would not have much view of the "trap" area. See my pic attached.

BBM

Does anyone know how wide an area they canvassed that evening? Didn't Ollipop say he lived within a couple of blocks of the lake and no one ever knocked on his door, and IIRC there have been a couple others mentioned here too?

Just curious how they determined which homes to visit?
Doesn't Mr C live a couple of blocks away too? (I'm not a map person :blushing: ) Not pointing fingers in any direction, just concerned something important might have been missed those early hours, and not just the lake area.

FTR, the houses across the street from me have the lake in their back yard. As of now, I have not been visited. I went over Friday night - I'd just gotten off work - and as I walked up to the parking area, there was maybe 100+ ppl there. It was well after dark - maybe 11pm. An ambulance was pulling out of the area, so I was hoping that meant the girls had just been found. But then I could tell all eyes were focused on a couple of LE officers. By the time I actually arrived at the parking lot (I walked, had witnessed all that as I approached), the officers were leaving in their squad cars.

People were streaming into the parking area, many got out of cars holding cases of bottled water. A lady and her teen daughter asked if I knew where to put the water. I explained I'd just walked up, and someone behind me filled us all in on the fact that LE had just suspended their search for the night, but that we were all OK to look around. Someone, somewhere, (I'm assuming FB), had requested volunteers and water, and those were arriving in droves.

I had grabbed a little flashlight as I'd left my house, so I started down the trail to the west. After 50-100 yards, north of the island, I realized that there were groups of disorganized searchers just like me (most were in groups) peppered around the lake. I could see flashlights ahead of me, behind me, right on the shore, over on the island, up in the lawn, all around the trail, in the corn fields west of the trail, etc. Despite feeling useless, and recognizing that the odds of me finding something in the dark that had not been spotted when it was light out were slim, I still worked my way around the trail to almost where the bikes were found.

People were up on the shoulder of the highway (it looked VERY dangerous), through the hole in the fence and in the ditch, down practically in the water, all around. It was like 30-40 groups of golfers looking for a ball at night. Surreal.

At that point, I knew no details about where the bikes had been found, what time they'd last been seen, etc, only that two girls were missing, and one was Drew Collins' daughter. I finally, despondently, turned around and worked my way back to home, but not before passing at least two other men just like myself, who'd obviously heard the news and just wandered over with flashlights, clueless but unable to NOT help. One guy popped out on the trail right there by the mowed path on the west side of the lake, obviously from a home on River Forest. The other was following the same route I'd taken 45 minutes before. This would have been 7-8 hours after the bikes were found, and people were "finding" all manner of trash, scraps of clothing, etc, that were all shown to LE and dismissed, afaik. There were people there all night from what I could tell (I can make out cars at the parking area from my living room).

The next day, the searching escalated, and they moved HQ over to the police station. By that evening (Sat), I'd heard almost 1000 were involved. Sunday was the same, altho more organized. Sunday night they just called it off. It still seems surreal to me.

If you adhere to the "official" timeline, there is hours during which anything could have happened, we know nothing more, and the last 3 weeks of posting have been useless.

If you consider the UNOFFICIAL official timeline via Mr Pahl, it's 8 minutes. Which works so well it's scary.

:moo:

I know you're hung on that comment by Pahl, but I interpreted it differently. He had said his phone was 8 minutes slower than the CCTV timestamp. Then he mentions how far someone could travel in 8 minutes. I believe you hear him relating that the LE that surrounded him kept discussing some 8-minute window, but I hear him commenting on what a difference 8 minutes would make in the timeline.
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case.

However, Pahl said the camera’s clock is eight minutes slower than his U.S. Cellular phone.

About 4 p.m. the youngsters’ bikes and Collins’ purse were found on the south side of Meyers Lake. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo, a bicyclist who said he often rides the Evansdale Nature Trail, has previously told The Courier he saw the two kids’ bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.

“It’s pretty hard for girls to get a mile and a half away ... in eight minutes,” Pahl said. “I don’t even think I could ride a bike a mile in eight minutes.”

It is confusing to me, as first they (the reporter) say that the 12:11 timestamp fits the police timeline. Then, they mention that the camera is 8 minutes slower than Pahl's phone, meaning that according to him, the girls appeared on video at 12:19. Next, they mention the TG sighting at 12:20, but go back to a quote from Pahl about the 8 minutes discrepancy. It is as if the reporter confirms, questions, then confirms again the timestamp. Is it possible that there was a misunderstanding, and that Pahl meant his phone was 8 minutes faster than the camera clock, putting the girls by there at 12:03? If I was that reporter, I don't know how I could NOT reconcile those times, with Pahl and LE handy, before I wrote the story.

At any rate, I don't interpret that as meaning that the FBI or DCI or whoever was discussing an 8-minute window, just that Pahl was trying to quantify the distance difference that the girls could cover if 8 minutes were added/subtracted from the timeline. KWIM?


This pic was my attempt to show how close the highway was, it was taken from the trail, just south of Maiden Lane, looking south and up to the highway. It shows the back of the River Forest Road Exit sign facing westbound traffic.