IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[otto]

Someone else posted this link first. It pulls details from over 600 child murder cases It is long, but worth taking a look at. Note that it compares serial murder cases to non-serial murder cases. The summary begins on page 81, for those of you who don't like to read too much.

If nothing else, read the summary. You may find the answer to one of your nagging questions.

Most of the victims of child abduction murder are victims of opportunity. pg 82, paragraph 4.

Over half of the child abduction murders are committed by a killer who is a total stranger to the victim. pg 81 last paragraph.

Commonly, the killers are at the initial killer-victim contact site for a legitimate reason. pg. 82, para. 4

Check out the distance relationship information on page 82. This should tell you that there was a good reason to drain the lake right away. If Maiden Lane were to be a murder site, the lake was a good place to look based on distance.

I hope and pray that this information is moot and does not pertain to this investigation at all. I hope these two sweet girls make it home safe and sound.


http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles/Another/Supporting_Law_Enforcement/Homicide_Investigation_Tracking_System_(HITS)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

That's a very interesting study! Thanks for posting it. It's interesting that direct physical assault is used in 47% of cases of child abduction to gain control of the victim. I was under the impression that trickery would be used, but it sounds like once the perp feels he has the upper hand, the gloves are off.

56% are victims are left in rural locations and 48% of the time it is not a random location. I think that will be true in this case. The post murder behavior is also very interesting ... that 23% return to the body disposal site, most within 3 days.

In 33% of cases, there are people that unknowingly witnessed something. That reminds me of what Ollipop said about someone in the parking lot being able to see what was going on at the drainage pipe. Even if people were there and saw everything, what they were seeing may not have registered in their head.

In 24% of cases, evidence is found along a major roadway within a mile of the abduction site. That would be worth searching ... doing a highway search for one mile in either direction from Meyers Lake.

 

[otto]

good question Rose
Olli might know.

I wonder if there is someone out there, that despises the family(-ies) or has some odd jealously towards someone, that they would want to 'steal' these girls as punishment, retribution, or to be a rescuer of sorts? Not really referring to a drug debt thing- something more twisted, to us, yet perfectly sane in the mind of the perp(s)
that make any sense?

After taking the children, what would happen to the them? Would they simply become part of a new family?

 

[MNDad]

After taking the children, what would happen to the them? Would they simply become part of a new family?

I can't see that happening at 8(9) and 10 years old.

 

[tlcya]

Whose on first?

:floorlaugh:

No really, I followed it, but am shocked so many others did.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Whose on first?

:floorlaugh:

No really, I followed it, but am shocked so many others did.

Great minds think alike

or

Fools never differ.

Take your pick.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Hi Tobywong*, I must have missed this item. Sorry to ask for a repeat, but do you mean that there is a blurry figure in the cctv video from Cornbelt Auctions. Could you please direct me where to look. TIA

I don't have a specific link, but this "blur" was discussed at length on a previous thread. The video is there as well. I can't recall which thread this was on, sorry, but I know several posts discussed this.

 

[ROM828]

I have heard from locals that it simply "spit" that day. Light sprinkle earlier in the day is what I've been told. As far as the lawn waterer, I don't think he was watering for a full three hours but just waters sometime within a three hour span. My own impression of that witness is that he waters regularly in the afternoon and that is why the 3 hour time span, witness probably didn't remember exactly what time he watered that day but recalls, after hearing of missing girls, having seen them.

VERY little rain in Iowa....the Cedar Valley is amongst the worse in the area.

http://whotv.com/2012/08/09/iowa-drought-conditions-continue-to-deteriorate/

 

[dotr]

Still wondering what evidence could have possibly made the police say this (reminded of this by Copper's above post):

(CBS/AP) EVANSDALE, Iowa - Investigators say they have evidence that leads them to believe two Iowa cousins who vanished last week are still alive.

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said Saturday that authorities strongly believe 10-year-old Lyric Cook-Morrissey and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins have not been killed.

"We believe," Breault said, "these girls are alive and we are not discouraged by the passage of time since their disappearance."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...orities-believe-missing-iowa-girls-are-alive/

I wondered before if maybe they had just used a poor choice of words and meant to say that they are not going to lose hope they could be alive, but the parts I bolded seem to indicate they definitely are aware of some things we are not (which others have pointed out as well). Still wondering what it could be though that is solid enough for them to make these bold statements, but still not able to locate the girls, charge someone, or even name their person of interest.

For all we know, the "evidence", could be a note in the purse - written by either the perp or the girls...

 

[SapphireSteel]

Oh yes the blur discussion.

To be honest, the only thing that really makes sense of what we know, officially and unofficially, is that they got to/near the lake and they got there pretty darn quick besides.

Which implies to me, they were on a mission.

My opinion only of course.

:moo:

 

[sreshowtime]

I got it MN, had all ready been working it...
frankly I was actually thinking further back in the respective families histories, more along the maternal line, as that is what the girls have in common. But there doesn't even have to be a connection actually.

What would a perp do with the girls? Well, for one, Jaycee Dugard ring a bell? she was 11 when kidnapped...strange things CAN happen, nothing surprises me any more.

 

[SapphireSteel]

For all we know, the "evidence", could be a note in the purse - written by either the perp or the girls...

Aunt Tammy giving us an idea of what the "evidence" might be -

In the past week investigators have questioned both Misty and Dan Morrisey several times. Brousseau said Dan Morrisey at one point left a police interview because he felt he was being treated like a suspect.
"I can see Dan becoming very defensive after he's being told, you know, 'You killed your daughter and niece. You know you did. We have proof. We have evidence that you did this,'" Brousseau said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-family-missing-iowa-girls-cooperating/story?id=16831729

:what:

 

[Copper]

Aunt Tammy giving us an idea of what the "evidence" might be -

In the past week investigators have questioned both Misty and Dan Morrisey several times. Brousseau said Dan Morrisey at one point left a police interview because he felt he was being treated like a suspect.
"I can see Dan becoming very defensive after he's being told, you know, 'You killed your daughter and niece. You know you did. We have proof. We have evidence that you did this,'" Brousseau said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-family-missing-iowa-girls-cooperating/story?id=16831729

:what:

I don't take that at face value. I see no reason why LE wouldn't lie about having evidence to try and break DM to get a confession out of him.

 

[Jax49]

Aunt Tammy giving us an idea of what the "evidence" might be -

In the past week investigators have questioned both Misty and Dan Morrisey several times. Brousseau said Dan Morrisey at one point left a police interview because he felt he was being treated like a suspect.
"I can see Dan becoming very defensive after he's being told, you know, 'You killed your daughter and niece. You know you did. We have proof. We have evidence that you did this,'" Brousseau said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-family-missing-iowa-girls-cooperating/story?id=16831729

:what:

Any clue as to who the 'Ceilley' quoted in the article is?

Also interesting to note that in the same timeframe the FBI is 'confident the girls are both alive'. Local LE versus FBI?

 

[Simp]

The scary thing is, I understand what you just said.

:lol:

LOL. Me too!

 

[Sunlight]

I don't take that at face value. I see no reason why LE wouldn't lie about having evidence to try and break DM to get a confession out of him.

That seems pretty standard..

 

[Marilynilpa]

Aunt Tammy giving us an idea of what the "evidence" might be -

In the past week investigators have questioned both Misty and Dan Morrisey several times. Brousseau said Dan Morrisey at one point left a police interview because he felt he was being treated like a suspect.
"I can see Dan becoming very defensive after he's being told, you know, 'You killed your daughter and niece. You know you did. We have proof. We have evidence that you did this,'" Brousseau said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-family-missing-iowa-girls-cooperating/story?id=16831729

:what:

LE can say whatever they need to in an investigation, and I think the "evidence" statement was just a ploy LE used to see how DM would react. If they had actual evidence, I think DM would be behind bars and we'd all be on another thread talking about another case. JMO

 

[SeeMamaRun]

But how would the great Ws benefit if Lyric disappeared? How would that protect the W? Were they hoping it would cause the younger W to break up with the unliked gf? Did it work?

 

[cindersoot]

When my DD was 11 and 12, she was ALWAYS trying to find an excuse to hang out at the skate park. She and her friends even tried to learn to skateboard so they had a reason to be there.

It would make a lot more sense that the girls were attracted to riding by that skate park then they would be wanting to go ride around the somewhat deserted Lake.

I wonder if they got nabbed near the skate park and then some teens took their abandoned bikes and dumped them off at the lake. You would hope they would have come forward, except that the FBI drained the entire lake. I could see the kids being afraid of being blamed for that, and even worried about having to share the cost. [ my sons friends stupidly set off fireworks in their local woods area and their parents got fined for the cost of the fire dept coming out to stop the resulting fire.]

That skate park in on the bike trail that leads directly to where the bikes were found.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Any clue as to who the 'Ceilley' quoted in the article is?

Also interesting to note that in the same timeframe the FBI is 'confident the girls are both alive'. Local LE versus FBI?

There is a Craig Ceilly who writes for the WCF Courier.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't take that at face value. I see no reason why LE wouldn't lie about having evidence to try and break DM to get a confession out of him.

They would only do that to him, if they suspected him and WANTED him to confess, surely?

If they thought he was innocent, trying to drill out a confession regardless would be a waste of tax payers money, as well as being totally corrupt and unethical?