IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

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  • #1,221
They would only do that to him, if they suspected him and WANTED him to confess, surely?

If they thought he was innocent, trying to drill out a confession regardless would be a waste of tax payers money, as well as being totally corrupt and unethical?

:confused:

All righty then...
 
  • #1,222
Maybe I can "explore that feeling" for you. I've always wanted to check it out anyway. The real issue for me is that I believe it is private land. But if I get a chance, I'll head over and get some ground-level pics. Keep in mind it won't happen today, likely not tomorrow.

<SBM>

Yeah, I'm assuming you are seeing the Cedar River Trail that runs south out of town. The old bridge washed out a couple years ago in the flooding, and there's a new one that was just completed. Lots of bikers and walkers use it. River Road is sort of an odd road, too. I think most of the homes down there were under water in the last flood. I've walked down there with my kids, and it has kind of an "exclusive" feel, because there's really no reason to be there if you don't live in the area. I've never explored back behind the houses. The map shows a road/path heading back there, but it is clearly marked as private property.

Thank you Ollipop, that would be great. I understand not being able to get to it straight away, no hurry (feels strange saying that when two girls are missing, but you know what I mean)... and besides, I've been drawn to River Rd and the Hansen lake area even more than cornfields.

Bigtime.

Now that you describe it even more, I have some questions for you. It was flooded, you said (I live in an area that had tremendous flooding almost a year ago now, so have some idea of what these "flood houses" can be like even after a long time)..


1) You said at least some are abandoned? Is that right?

2) Would any of them have wells/cisterns/etc? Some people have put a lot of energy in wondering about old wells nearby.. these wouldn't be "old" but perhaps recently flooded out of use, and now abandoned?

3 ) Have you seen anyone searching over there? Camping over there? Partying over there?

Thanks SO much, you have no idea how much good it does just to feel like I'm doing something.. even if "something" is just actively exchanging thoughts with somebody there. :seeya:

(And praying. Always with the praying for these dear ones!)
 
  • #1,223
I don't have a specific link, but this "blur" was discussed at length on a previous thread. The video is there as well. I can't recall which thread this was on, sorry, but I know several posts discussed this.

I want to say thread 6-9 somewhere. I posted about this as well.
 
  • #1,224
I want to say thread 6-9 somewhere. I posted about this as well.

I found my last post about this here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

Reproduced below:

Originally Posted by Jules71
I highlighted what I feel is the 2nd bike as well as the first on this picture. The dotted red outlines the "man" - if that is what it is.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24992

Originally Posted by GGE
Wait, wait, I'm sleepy but this just hit me.

Lederman's 12:15 video I saw and posted an image of what I thought was a person in the background.

Now in this new 12:11 video I'm seeing someone in as well.

This needs to be looked at IMHO!

(from first video released/12:15/lederman's video - look inside the red oval):
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24891&d=1343060765

Okay I copied quotes from my last posting about this many threads ago, and re-uploaded the images discussed above as new attachments.
 

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  • #1,225
I found my last post about this here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

Reproduced below:





Okay I copied quotes from my last posting about this many threads ago, and re-uploaded the images discussed above as new attachments.

At first this was shocking to see, but then I realized that this town has as all large towns, people, people going about doing normal things. I see a third person, but that could be a lady walking a dog, the avon lady, anyone.
 
  • #1,226
They would only do that to him, if they suspected him and WANTED him to confess, surely?

If they thought he was innocent, trying to drill out a confession regardless would be a waste of tax payers money, as well as being totally corrupt and unethical?

:confused:
I don't know if LE or the FBI suspects(ed) DM or not.

If they did, then you're right and they were trying to get him to confess. If they didn't, then I imagine they thought the possibility existed and wanted to confirm or eliminate DM as suspect as soon as possible. And they drilled him to do it. And I don't think they'd be worrying about hurt feelings with two little girls on the line.
 
  • #1,227
I feel like I'm all over the planet here with my maps and speculations, but I'm a visual person and need to see the possibilities.

I like the grandmother's theory except for the staging part. Staging adds a risk factor that isn't necessary. I have never believed the paddleboat theory. I seem to recall that one of the moms said that she spoke to a paddle boat person when she first got to the park ... something about a paddle boat person having seen the girls. I don't have a link, so perhaps that didn't happen. I firmly believe that the family is not involved. The parents may have substance abuse problems, but to stretch that into some type of culpability ... that doesn't work for me. I have no idea what route the girls took to the lake, but I suspect that they cut through the back roads after first going West and then turning left, perhaps taking a cycling loop that they travelled before.

Isn't Occams razor about carefully excluding all the uncertainties until whatever is left is what really happened?

Occam's Razor is a rule of thumb that says that the explanation that requires the addition of the fewest unknown elements is most likely to be the correct answer.

Under Occam's Razor, your theory is most likely to be the correct answer.
 
  • #1,228
  • #1,229
For all we know, the "evidence", could be a note in the purse - written by either the perp or the girls...

That's an interesting thought. Something along the lines of, "I have the girls, they will be released unharmed as long as X happens. Any mention of this before then will be bad news." There is a big X coming up for at least one of the F.
Purely speculative, but there are rumors around here pertaining to this idea. I find it hard to believe the F is involved directly, as I've said before, because they've proven time and time again that when something they are doing absolutely requires secrecy and not letting LE discover them, they failed at it. They're simply not "masterminds," IMO.

LE can say whatever they need to in an investigation, and I think the "evidence" statement was just a ploy LE used to see how DM would react. If they had actual evidence, I think DM would be behind bars and we'd all be on another thread talking about another case. JMO

And remember, that quote was from Aunt T, paraphrasing what someone (likely DM or MCM) told her had been said. I doubt Aunt T was in the room. We don't really know what was said that made DM leave. The family has been united on this, so I suspect we have an idea, but we can't be sure they even used the word "evidence" at all.

Thank you Ollipop, that would be great. I understand not being able to get to it straight away, no hurry (feels strange saying that when two girls are missing, but you know what I mean)... and besides, I've been drawn to River Rd and the Hansen lake area even more than cornfields.

Bigtime.

Now that you describe it even more, I have some questions for you. It was flooded, you said (I live in an area that had tremendous flooding almost a year ago now, so have some idea of what these "flood houses" can be like even after a long time)..


1) You said at least some are abandoned? Is that right?

2) Would any of them have wells/cisterns/etc? Some people have put a lot of energy in wondering about old wells nearby.. these wouldn't be "old" but perhaps recently flooded out of use, and now abandoned?

3 ) Have you seen anyone searching over there? Camping over there? Partying over there?

Thanks SO much, you have no idea how much good it does just to feel like I'm doing something.. even if "something" is just actively exchanging thoughts with somebody there. :seeya:

(And praying. Always with the praying for these dear ones!)

Yeah, that area on River Road has sort of a sketchy vibe about it, but the one thing to remember is there is really only one way in, one way out, and there's not a lot of traffic. My point is that if you were spotted driving down that road (and didn't live there), or whatever, there is a greater chance of being remembered/noticed.

1) I believe some are abandoned, yes.
2) Its possible, I don't know. I'm not sure where the water table is right there by the river, or if that has any bearing on whether those houses would or wouldn't have wells/cisterns, etc.
3) No, no, and no. According to sign across the highway, a chunk of riverfront property is for sale over there along the highway. Coming over the bridge from the west, approaching the River Forest Road exit, you can see a ways down the river. There are many sandbars, but not much sign of activity. I have, on occasion, seen ppl down there from that vantage point, sitting in lawn chairs, etc. Likewise, from my house, I've seen fireworks that appear to have originated from there.

I'm the type to explore. I like to purposefully get lost and find a new way home. I've been down to the end of that road on a few occasions, alone, and there is a road that leads back into the woods. I've always been curious, as it seems to me to be how ppl are getting back to that spot I can see from the highway. But there is a chain/gate preventing vehicles from wandering back there, as well as signage to indicate that its not public property.

<modsnip>
 
  • #1,230
I can't see that happening at 8(9) and 10 years old.

I can't either. I can't see a "nice" person kidnapping two children because they want to protect the children.
 
  • #1,231
And I have to ask - do you think LE wasted too much time and was tunnel vision with the idea that they had drowned? I hope they were working on other avenues, but with what I hear about the trash---I wonder now.

No, I don't think LE tunnel visioned on the girls being drowned at all. Before midnight on that Friday night (within 8 hours), they were definitely moving on checking out other possibilities.

What have you heard about the trash?

While the lake was being drained and all media attention was focused there, while the highs were in the upper 90s and the humidity was absolutely horrible, there were officers out at the landfill searching through the trash. If they found anything of interest, the information was not released to the media.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html
 
  • #1,232
Ok, how about we explore this a different way - maybe a new perspective, explore new possibilities.

One thing that has kind of nagged at me is the differential between Grandma saying the girls NEVER went to the lake, and Mr. C saying he has seen Elizabeth quite often.

SBM

I have wondered all along if Grandma C meant that the girls didn't bicycle to the lake alone without permission. But they may have bicycled there with their parents or their older cousins with permission.

I think back to when I was a kid and there were certainly places I went to with my father and/or mother that I would not have been allowed to go alone due to distance. For example, had I ever gone missing and been last seen in City Park, I think my mother would have said "she never went that far."

She would have meant "she never went that far on her own." That wouldn't mean I'd never been there because I went there every single day in the summer to go swimming.

But in the context of "where would Grainne go alone on her bicycle" my mother would have naysaid the idea I'd go to City Park.

I don't know if I'm being clear or not.

It's just that in a small town with so few parks, I can't imagine the Collins never took their children to Meyer's Lake. There's just not that much stuff to do in Evansdale!

A lot of times, quotes or soundbites in the media are a bit misleading because they are taken out of context.
 
  • #1,233
gotcha! How do you know where people live? lol I didn't realize the L business in the dale was related to the bonds office.

I do know that the business are the same family from googling, but the house ownership is total speculation and could be a common name. Tax accessor link shared earlier, but I have no idea what thread/post.
 
  • #1,234
MNDad is seriously on to something here. Coupled with the fact that i could swear that the figures on bikes in the video are wearing black shirts. Not green or white. Does anyone else see this? there was some sleuthing of this already I think. could bikes have been peddled to lake and quickly thrown by accomplices of a man named L? Hmmm. But that doesn't explain the possible scent at lake i guess.
 
  • #1,235
thank u so much gracelin, that sure helps alot.
did they search downon river rd near that river and is that river have a moving current?

Yes to both.

Right now, the Cedar River is low due to drought but it does still have a current. If there were bodies in it, they would have come to the surface by now.
 
  • #1,236
  • #1,237
Thanks for the link. If you google Cedar Rapids Bail Bonds you will find an L name that is also linked to a business near Elizabeth's home.

I may have said too much. I'm not as good with the riddles ;)

Ohhhhh :what:
 
  • #1,238
Well, man, I know how to play follow the leader but how does this come into play?
 
  • #1,239
It was raining that morning which makes me wonder if some of the construction workers were not at their jobs early that afternoon.

It barely spit some moisture at my poor drought stricken state. The measured precipitation was something like 0.01 inches.

Which matched about what we got (90 miles south).

I doubt the crews even paused for so little rain.
 
  • #1,240
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