IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #14

[Jules71]

It sucks. Just last night we had a customer at work who was clearly under the influence of this very demon. Annoyed at first, then angry, I eventually just felt sorry for her, as she sat, alone after upsetting almost everyone that she was trying so hard to make friends with, head down, clearly "coming down," and knowing that tomorrow was going to be a very difficult day, and that likely in her mind the best remedy would be hair of the dog. I went from wanting to slap her to wanting to hug her in just a few hours.

Unfortunately I recognize that she is in trouble until she views herself in the way that I did, as desperately needing help. Sigh.

SBM. You are a good person Olli. Have you ever done the Myers-Briggs personality type quiz? You must be a "feeler". But you seem to think a lot too.

I am a I/E, S, T, J - so I alternate between introvert and extrovert, I am sensing more than intuitive, thinking more than feeling, and judging more than perceiving.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

It's certainly possible that one girl was the original target, the other heard a commotion, went to see what was going on and then boom now you have two girls missing.

Something like this: one girl was by the shoreline, the other girl ran up towards the woods. Shoreline girl hears a commotion, and goes to check it out, and now two are gone.

I'm always interested in theories. All of them. Including ones I don't necessarily agree with, what I don't care for is what could be biased gossip. I have no idea whom anyone could have ticked off somewhere down the line, and that can effect what they're going to report.

I think in this case the silence of LE is saying something. I really think if they suspected anyone directly in the family, they'd be putting the pressure on them publicly. When people weren't cooperating, they had no problem putting it out there, they began cooperating after a couple of days, LE stated the relations had gotten better with the family, and now we've heard nothing else about it.

Thoughts? Theories?:twocents:

 

[FrayedKnot]

Another thing about the smiling pictures. I have seen several of Heather smiling, or at least not looking like she'd recently cried. However, I've also read that she needs another surgery on her heart, but the doctors say she can't have it now because of the stress she's under. Just because she has health issues (rather than a drug history), I don't believe it makes her grief any more real than that of her sisters smiling with her. I believe they're all hurting and want those girls home.
,

Respectfully snipped by me.

ITA. And what is even sadder is that the prejudice against MCM seems to extend to Lyric.

It seems to be just assumed that Lyric was 'fast' and 'streetwise' and that Elizabeth would only have ridden off because of Lyric's bad influence. The girls are a year apart. I have not read one single MSM article saying that Lyric was a troubled child or a troublemaker.

AFAIK, she came home late one day. And now she is missing. That's pretty much the sum total of my intimate knowledge of this little girl. I find it hard to swallow that from those facts and a picture of her wearing dangly earrings that there is a presumption that Lyric led Elizabeth astray.

I think they were just two little girls having fun on a summer day.

JMO.

 

[Jules71]

Respectfully snipped by me.

ITA. And what is even sadder is that the prejudice against MCM seems to extend to Lyric.

It seems to be just assumed that Lyric was 'fast' and 'streetwise' and that Elizabeth would only have ridden off because of Lyric's bad influence. The girls are a year apart. I have not read one single MSM article saying that Lyric was a troubled child or a troublemaker.

AFAIK, she came home late one day. And now she is missing. That's pretty much the sum total of my intimate knowledge of this little girl. I find it hard to swallow that from those facts and a picture of her wearing dangly earrings that there is a presumption that Lyric led Elizabeth astray.

I think they were just two little girls having fun on a summer day.

JMO.

Someone in the family was quoted as saying Lyric could have convinced Elizabeth to go - it might have been Heather even. I believe that is where it came from. I will try to find it unless someone else beats me to it.

ETA: I do not think negatively at all about Lyric. I feel awful that when she was one year old custody of her was given to her aunt and her parents were on drugs and in and out of jail. I feel bad that she apparently has not had a stable upbringing by the parents who brought her into this world. MOO

 

[Sunlight]

I'm kind of liking the let's go feed the ducks at the lake scenario, along with the oops, we forgot the purse...then somebody stepped into their path. I still think it is likely that they could be located somewhere in the woods eventually, because the volunteer search was called off, and I'm going to be sad if a jogger or hunter discovers something down the line. I'm suspicious of every vagrant, loitering, drugged out, perverted (or any combination thereof) persons familiar with the area...hunter, camper, fisherman. I'm not into the paddleboat as an escape or abduction vehicle theory...possibly only a clue to pin down someone's timeline...I believe the girls were at the lake. My mind is open to ALL other scenarios though.

 

[hambirg]

I don't mean to say that people outwardly and consciously enjoy seeing the family smiling (altho I've seen comments on FB from people expressing relief in seeing the family find a reason to smile), but that its more on a subconscious level. Seeing the family smiling reinforces many people's concerns and suspicions. It satisfies the public's voracious appetite for juicy gossip, as evidenced by how well tabloid garbage sells. I think some people want to be right in their theory that the "drug-riddled family" was behind it all along, partly because its easier than considering that there are dark, evil, dangerous strangers out there stalking, stealing, and/or killing children.

BBM

I think this is really what it comes down to. It's easier on a psychological level to convince ourselves that this can't happen to us because we don't. . .fill in the blank.

While the family does have a shady past, and that certainly means that they would be more likely to have some kind of relationship with some unsavory characters, I just don't get the feeling that came into play here.

I'm still more inclined to think this was a random crime of opportunity. And the lack of evidence gives me the feeling that this was professional. If it was a lone or team of sexual predators, I think they had to be experienced and have possibly done this before successfully. If this was a human trafficking/pedo ring then that would explain why there haven't been any reports of odd behavior or unidentified out of towners. I just can't believe that more people didn't see the girls that day.

Excuse me while I adjust my tin foil hat. . .BUT after reading the Johnny Gosch stuff it makes me wonder. If any of that can be believed, then children were abducted not just for the money, but to compromise powerful people. And well. . .it is an election year. I would love to see some statistics. . .abductions where the children just seemed to vanish off the face of the earth and election cycles. The FBI seems to think the girls are still alive. There has to be a reason for that, because statistically it's unlikely.

MOO

 

[elepher50]

Thank you Confusion! I enjoyed your comments very much and I appreciate what you said. Yes, it was given I always thought I would go before him. It is a day by day, hour by hour and sometimes minute by minute situation. He was my only child. I will never have grandchildren. I hope that I am able to fill a need in someone's life who might need a grandmother at some point.

Hi Bootsctr,

Hang in there friend. I have six (6) "grandchildren" who consider me their grandparent even though I never had children of my own. There are so many children who want and need a grandparent figure these days and I am very sure you will become a grandparent to some very lucky children.

Hugs to you.

eleph

 

[otto]

When I read the comments about how this family seems to be responding to the abduction of their daughters, I am reminded of the disappearance of Cayley Anthony. She was reported missing a month after she was murdered and the family was not interested in getting her picture in the media unless the media paid a lot of money for each and every photo. Although 2 examples is an awfully small sample group, I think that if we were to generalize, we can see the big difference between a family that truly cares and one that doesn't care and is looking to cash in on the murder of their youngest family member.

 

[brighidin]

Thank you Confusion! I enjoyed your comments very much and I appreciate what you said. Yes, it was given I always thought I would go before him. It is a day by day, hour by hour and sometimes minute by minute situation. He was my only child. I will never have grandchildren. I hope that I am able to fill a need in someone's life who might need a grandmother at some point.

:grouphug:
So sorry for your loss bootsctr.

 

[otto]

My son is super "pumped". He's going to the Netherlands with his cousin this evening ... staying with family ... for two weeks. They're both teenagers, so this is a huge adventure for them. I can only hope that I've given him all the tools he needs to make the right choices.

 

[elepher50]

My son is super "pumped". He's going to the Netherlands with his cousin this evening ... staying with family ... for two weeks. They're both teenagers, so this is a huge adventure for them. I can only hope that I've given him all the tools he needs to make the right choices.

There is no doubt in my mind that your son not only knows what the right choices are but also that he has been schooled in the thought process to be able to make those right choices when faced with decisions to make.

:twocents:

 

[MotherOcean]

Respectfully snipped by me.

ITA. And what is even sadder is that the prejudice against MCM seems to extend to Lyric.

It seems to be just assumed that Lyric was 'fast' and 'streetwise' and that Elizabeth would only have ridden off because of Lyric's bad influence. The girls are a year apart. I have not read one single MSM article saying that Lyric was a troubled child or a troublemaker.

AFAIK, she came home late one day. And now she is missing. That's pretty much the sum total of my intimate knowledge of this little girl. I find it hard to swallow that from those facts and a picture of her wearing dangly earrings that there is a presumption that Lyric led Elizabeth astray.

I think they were just two little girls having fun on a summer day.

JMO.

It wouldn't matter even if that were true (not that I believe it is) because she is TEN years old. A ten year old is a wee little girl, barely out of babyhood. Maybe we are old-fashioned in my family but ten is very, very young. We don't expect ten year olds to be mature and we know that they are not, no matter how it may appear.

 

[MissouriGirl]

Praying that the girls are brought home safe and sound to their families soon and that wherever they may be, they are alive and staying strong.

 

[cindersoot]

What is taped to Misty's upper arm? And why?

Well, I must say I give them credit I could never look that happy.:what:

 

[CoeTrawk]

Hi sleuths,
I've been lurking here and in the scanner thread for about two weeks now. I go thru phases of obsession with this thread and checking once a day, so forgive me if my observations aren't exactly "original."

I went down to the "scene" today, just because I wated to see it all for myself. A few observations:

1. No way are those fences 8 feet high. I'd say they are about 6'3" or so. My thought was that they were easily scale-able by Lyric for sure, if not by both. At the gate by the jetty, even if it was locked (as it is now), it is a double gate, and there is a gap between the two gates that even I, an adult man, can fit through. If she couldn't climb the fence itself, Elizabeth could have stood on the locking bar between the two gates (about 2'6" off the ground) and slipped through the gap. That's just for info's sake - I don't think they actually scaled the fence, but of course, we don't know for sure!

2. If you look at the area on a google maps picture or similar, you know that the bikes etc were found on the SE side of the lake, near a small patch of woods where Maiden Lane cuts in. I spotted the (other, single) gate from Ollipop's pictures, but to me it was not clear that there was any road behind it. Maiden Lane is fairly obvious from Arbutus (if you are looking for it). That said, if you see how the bike path shoots away to the east beyond those woods, do you see the empty field between the path and Arbutus? There are several little narrow paths that lead into the woods. Not "official" paths, but the kind of "slightly-less-jungle-like" little tracks that go right into the woods - the kind I used to explore as a child at the first opportunity! The kind likely created by repeated use rather than made on purpose. They look more used than if they were created by police walking in and out over the past few weeks.

3. Relating to the TG bike sighting on the "blind" curve: if you look on google maps, you'll see two curves in the area near those woods. The westernmost one isn't a blind curve, IMO. On the ground, no matter which way you're going, you can see thru the fenceline and see the trail ahead of you after the curve. But the easternmost curve IS a blind curve. And it is right there by the open field and the side of the woods where the little trails go in.

4. The little trails are too narrow to bike on. If TG saw their bikes at the truly blind curve, the girls were probably in the woods, whether exploring or meeting someone. If they were abducted then, all it would take was one perp ahead of them, then another walks in behind - nowhere to run now! The bikes may have been moved at any time after the fact

Having seen this stuff myself, I favor the non-boat theories of abduction. I think the girls dropped their bikes at the only truly blind curve, walked into that empty field, took a little trail into the woods (why? That's the key question...) and whatever happened, happened in there. The boat thing seems unnecesarry.

 

[MotherOcean]

Hi sleuths,
I've been lurking here and in the scanner thread for about two weeks now. I go thru phases of obsession with this thread and checking once a day, so forgive me if my observations aren't exactly "original."

I went down to the "scene" today, just because I wated to see it all for myself. A few observations:

1. No way are those fences 8 feet high. I'd say they are about 6'3" or so. My thought was that they were easily scale-able by Lyric for sure, if not by both. At the gate by the jetty, even if it was locked (as it is now), it is a double gate, and there is a gap between the two gates that even I, an adult man, can fit through. If she couldn't climb the fence itself, Elizabeth could have stood on the locking bar between the two gates (about 2'6" off the ground) and slipped through the gap. That's just for info's sake - I don't think they actually scaled the fence, but of course, we don't know for sure!

2. If you look at the area on a google maps picture or similar, you know that the bikes etc were found on the SE side of the lake, near a small patch of woods where Maiden Lane cuts in. I spotted the (other, single) gate from Ollipop's pictures, but to me it was not clear that there was any road behind it. Maiden Lane is fairly obvious from Arbutus (if you are looking for it). That said, if you see how the bike path shoots away to the east beyond those woods, do you see the empty field between the path and Arbutus? There are several little narrow paths that lead into the woods. Not "official" paths, but the kind of "slightly-less-jungle-like" little tracks that go right into the woods - the kind I used to explore as a child at the first opportunity! The kind likely created by repeated use rather than made on purpose. They look more used than if they were created by police walking in and out over the past few weeks.

3. Relating to the TG bike sighting on the "blind" curve: if you look on google maps, you'll see two curves in the area near those woods. The westernmost one isn't a blind curve, IMO. On the ground, no matter which way you're going, you can see thru the fenceline and see the trail ahead of you after the curve. But the easternmost curve IS a blind curve. And it is right there by the open field and the side of the woods where the little trails go in.

4. The little trails are too narrow to bike on. If TG saw their bikes at the truly blind curve, the girls were probably in the woods, whether exploring or meeting someone. If they were abducted then, all it would take was one perp ahead of them, then another walks in behind - nowhere to run now! The bikes may have been moved at any time after the fact

Having seen this stuff myself, I favor the non-boat theories of abduction. I think the girls dropped their bikes at the only truly blind curve, walked into that empty field, took a little trail into the woods (why? That's the key question...) and whatever happened, happened in there. The boat thing seems unnecesarry.

WOW - thanks so much for sharing! I have thought from the beginning that they were taken right where you are describing. I think that is the area that Aunt T. was speaking about when she said that the dogs tracked to the wooded area. So, do you have any ideas about how the purse could have ended up on the other side of the fence by the lake? Maybe the girls went there first and then were abducted??

Your whole post is very helpful. Thanks again!

 

[Bootsctr]

Hi Bootsctr,

Hang in there friend. I have six (6) "grandchildren" who consider me their grandparent even though I never had children of my own. There are so many children who want and need a grandparent figure these days and I am very sure you will become a grandparent to some very lucky children.

Hugs to you.

eleph

Hello Eleph,

You are an inspiration. I love that you have 6 "grandchildren". They are indeed very lucky children, and they must be like sunshine in your life.

A hug right back at you,

boots

 

[dotr]

This is from August 6 ,but I am wondering if this guy had any similiar-thinking friends?
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ar...cle_50b4e094-dffe-11e1-aa0a-001a4bcf887a.html
According to court records, four girls ran away from a Quakerdale facility in Waterloo on June 25. They allegedly ended up at Seay’s apartment in the early morning hours of June 26, and he allegedly provided them alcohol and ecstasy pills and had sexual contact with three of them.

Two were age 13 and the other was 17, court records state. They were later examined at Allen Hospital"

 

[Bootsctr]

:grouphug:
So sorry for your loss bootsctr.

Thank you brighidin! Hugs do help, even virtual hugs!

 

[MotherOcean]

I have made myself sick over this for 4 weeks. I am not smiling. I am worried sick about these two girls - and my fingernails look awful!

I am giving myself a time out. I'm sorry but I am overly emotional today - and angry.

It's OK, Jules71. You have offered so much good stuff for us to think about, your time is very much appreciated. I have had quite a few days just where you are right now (the emotional part). To be honest, I am sick to my stomach just about all the time. I am a nervous wreck for these girls. And, no, it is not abnormal for us to feel this way. Not at all. This is normal. As uncomfortable as it is, this is normal, because we know what the possibilities are and we know it's evil and disgusting. God forbid that we reach the day where we can entertain such possibilities and feel anything other than sadness, anger, pity.

There's a certain case that I followed for quite some time. I am a "local" on that case and felt I had some insights to offer. But, the sicker I got for the victim, the less tolerant I felt for particular things that were going on. I had to step away for good.

Take care of yourself. :grouphug: