IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[RNER]

I don't know if any of us actually know if there was a runner. Could TB have spoken to TG. Could TG be the runner and the biker? Could TB assume that TG was a runner because he didn't have his bike with him when she encountered him, but he was dressed in training gear, so she assumed he was a jogger? Was TG at the scene on Friday or was he already gone and did he not come forward until Monday? Could FBI have just been generalizing on the type of athletic activity and call a biker a runner? Could the pinpointed time be TG's time that FBI is referring to?

All of these questions are not sleuthing TG, but rather designed to ask if there are two people that saw the bikes/girls or just one person being referred to differently.

or....did TB talk to anyone at all?????????????????????????

 

[Jules71]

Thanks. I thought I remembered Tammy saying the man said he saw the girls on their bikes. If so, this man cannot be the 'runner' the FBI referred to because their witness only saw the bikes, not the girls.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

Breault said they are looking for anyone who might have been at the park, on the trails or on the water. Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey disappeared July 13.
“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said.

Correct! Good point! The possible witness that Tammy talked to cannot be the "gentleman who regularly runs around the lake". Because this witness claims to have seen the girls, not just their bikes.

I still think Breault is referring to TG in her statement, but since she was giving an example of info they are wanting - she just changed a detail to not draw attention to TG.

 

[Shelby2]

I am almost positive that TB said she had a "gut feeling" the girls were at the lake right off the bat. I think she stated this in an interview, with JVM, and that transcript is here somewhere. I will try to find a link.

 

[Sunlight]

or....did TB talk to anyone at all?????????????????????????

I thought that might be the case awhile back, but I believe her.

Also, remember..two girls are missing, presumed abducted...that is creepy stuff and if so, pretty creepy details. KWIM (ref. to previous comment)

MOO

 

[Jules71]

Tammy said she, grandma, and E's brother were at the lake at 2:45. She said the man told her he saw the girls at 2:30. She also said LE swarmed the lake at 3. Abben stated in a press conference the bikes were FOUND at 3:58 which closely matches the scanner activity for that day.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using

Two minutes later Heather reports them missing at the counter at LE @ 2:47? ? What prompted Heather to go to LE to report them missing? I'm wondering if the 2:45 thing and the 2:47 thing is kinda like the 8 minute math problem. Again, something is awry...probably watches and phones. I dunno.

From my understanding Heather did not go to the lake when Tammy, Grandma, and E's brother went.

She was driving around looking and drove back to the house where Grandma and Misty were talking in the front yard and then said she was going to the PD. That was around 2 I think and right after that Grandma left to go meet Tammy back at Grandma's house in Waterloo. Then Drew called them and said to come back and help look. They swung by the Collins house and picked up E's brother and headed right for Meyers Lake.

 

[MNDad]

Im so confused that large house, I never seen that? Not on the lake.

I never noticed it before either, but someone brought it up in regards to paddle boats. It is on the west corner of where a what looks like a manmade channel shoots up to the north. I don't think it is relevant to the case (IMO) but JamieInLA asked about the costs, so I just looked it up and responded. It is probably OT and shouldn't be added to the already confusing points, but Otto did bring up that they have alot of windows and could have seen something (assuming anyone was home)

 

[cindersoot]

This never got answered, but was there a white van that was suspicious on July 13th?

 

[Shelby2]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

Here is the post with the transcript, TB states this at the bottom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops are focusing on new leads. They say they want to talk to a boater. We`ve got some shots of boaters. Somebody was on the lake boating around in one of those little tiny boats. What do you know about that? Who is this individual?

BROUSSEAU: I don`t know who that individual is. I was on scene prior to the Evansdale police showing up. And I was on scene before the Waterloo Sheriff`s Department showed up. I had a gut feeling to go there and look for my nieces.

So my mother and I and the Collins family, Little Boy Kelly (ph), we all went to Myers Lake. I jumped out and started asking random people. One man said yes, he had seen the description of those girls on the bike trail going west. It`s a small lake. The bike trail wraps around small -- it`s not real huge. And within 20 minutes of us standing there, Evansdale police and Waterloo Sheriff`s Department were on the bike trail with their vehicles, went around to that side, located the bicycles and Elizabeth`s purse.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Possible. I've heard of cases where police were not called immediately, and it seems to always be a reasonable explanation.
I can tell you that nearly 25 years ago, my son wandered out of our yard while my back was turned and to make a long story short, he was found an hour or so later, more than a mile from our house, in a pasture with a herd of cows around him. He was almost 3 years old. We never did call 911. His dad is the one who found him. If he had not been found when he was, we would have called the sheriff's dept and they would have come out and searched on horseback, but my husband's instincts were good and he knew our dog was with him and that our son loved to explore the woods and creek banks. If something terrible had happened we would of course have been kicking ourselves for not calling them, but we were very lucky.
There are probably many cases like ours where children are found without the help of LE. Sadly, some are never found even WITH their help. There's no way to explain it, but I thank God every day that our son was okay.

ETA: I have to reclarify.... he was actually found within about half an hour or so, but it took at least 20 minutes or more to walk back to our house with him on his daddy's shoulders. But I knew the moment when he was found because the calling his name stopped and everything was quiet.

A half hour or more for a 3 year old? I guess everyone is different. I would have called sooner ,not because of fear of a kidnapping but for more people to help find my child at a that age. A three year old girl just died in a river when she wondered off. Sorry if i sound judgemental but i guess it is true people react different to these type of situations. Glad everything worked out for you.

 

[Jules71]

I don't know if any of us actually know if there was a runner. Could TB have spoken to TG. Could TG be the runner and the biker? Could TB assume that TG was a runner because he didn't have his bike with him when she encountered him, but he was dressed in training gear, so she assumed he was a jogger? Was TG at the scene on Friday or was he already gone and did he not come forward until Monday? Could FBI have just been generalizing on the type of athletic activity and call a biker a runner? Could the pinpointed time be TG's time that FBI is referring to?

All of these questions are not sleuthing TG, but rather designed to ask if there are two people that saw the bikes/girls or just one person being referred to differently.

Very thought provoking post! :waitasec:

 

[hambirg]

This never got answered, but was there a white van that was suspicious on July 13th?

I think the answer is we don't know. There were no reports on the 13th IIRC. I do have to wonder if there isn't one on the cctv tape though. :waitasec:

 

[RNER]

Here is what I'd like to know. Did he say he actually saw the girls? TB says he told her he saw the girls, but FBI says he didn't actually see the girls, only the bikes.

My thinking is that maybe TB has it wrong. . .or kind of. I can see if someone was out jogging on the trail and a concerned person approaches them and asks if they saw two girls on bikes. . .that if they actually just saw the bikes, they might say. . .oh yeah. . .they are down that way. . .just thinking that's where the girls are and not that they were abducted and that the bikes are there but the girls aren't, kwim?

Idk. . .but it's a thought and I can see that happening. And then when the jogger is later questioned by LE it is cleared up that he only actually saw the bikes and just assumed the girls were there too.

My daughter went missing in a forest 10 years ago before being located in the wilderness by a forest ranger 3 hours after her disappearance. We saw a hiker come out of the woods from where we lost sight of her. I suspected him of doing something harmful to her, especially since he told us that he had passed her as he was coming down the mountain 1/2 a mile away. To this day, I can give you a description of that man and what he was wearing, and I had his license plate and car description memorized.

IMOO...If TB TRULY saw this guy, who would have been the last person to have seen the girls or their bikes, I would assume that she had a similar reaction, and she would know specific details about the guy and be able to give LE enough info to follow up with. If not....make your own assumptions!

 

[Sunlight]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

Here is the post with the transcript, TB states this at the bottom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops are focusing on new leads. They say they want to talk to a boater. We`ve got some shots of boaters. Somebody was on the lake boating around in one of those little tiny boats. What do you know about that? Who is this individual?

BROUSSEAU: I don`t know who that individual is. I was on scene prior to the Evansdale police showing up. And I was on scene before the Waterloo Sheriff`s Department showed up. I had a gut feeling to go there and look for my nieces.

So my mother and I and the Collins family, Little Boy Kelly (ph), we all went to Myers Lake. I jumped out and started asking random people. One man said yes, he had seen the description of those girls on the bike trail going west. It`s a small lake. The bike trail wraps around small -- it`s not real huge. And within 20 minutes of us standing there, Evansdale police and Waterloo Sheriff`s Department were on the bike trail with their vehicles, went around to that side, located the bicycles and Elizabeth`s purse. [/QUOTE

In this particular interview, she's saying they ALL went to the lake, including the Collins family.

 

[cindersoot]

Has the Canadian LE identified the head, feet with yellow polish yet?

 

[SapphireSteel]

According to Misty, they started searching around 12.30.

COOK-MORRISSEY: Just the normal image, don`t be gone very long and we realized they left 11:30. By 12:30, we were not happy because they weren`t back. And that`s when Kelly, my 12-year-old grandson from Heather`s house, the dad was home so we went searching right away and by 2:00, Heather couldn`t find them either so she went straight to the police station and the police went out right away.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

 

[Confusion]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

Here is the post with the transcript, TB states this at the bottom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops are focusing on new leads. They say they want to talk to a boater. We`ve got some shots of boaters. Somebody was on the lake boating around in one of those little tiny boats. What do you know about that? Who is this individual?

BROUSSEAU: I don`t know who that individual is. I was on scene prior to the Evansdale police showing up. And I was on scene before the Waterloo Sheriff`s Department showed up. I had a gut feeling to go there and look for my nieces.

So my mother and I and the Collins family, Little Boy K**** (ph), we all went to Myers Lake. I jumped out and started asking random people. One man said yes, he had seen the description of those girls on the bike trail going west. It`s a small lake. The bike trail wraps around small -- it`s not real huge. And within 20 minutes of us standing there, Evansdale police and Waterloo Sheriff`s Department were on the bike trail with their vehicles, went around to that side, located the bicycles and Elizabeth`s purse.

In this particular interview, she's saying they ALL went to the lake, including the Collins family.

BBM and minor's name removed. It says their little boy, not the whole family.. HC was at the PD and DC was home with the little kids.

 

[hambirg]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

Here is the post with the transcript, TB states this at the bottom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops are focusing on new leads. They say they want to talk to a boater. We`ve got some shots of boaters. Somebody was on the lake boating around in one of those little tiny boats. What do you know about that? Who is this individual?

BROUSSEAU: I don`t know who that individual is. I was on scene prior to the Evansdale police showing up. And I was on scene before the Waterloo Sheriff`s Department showed up. I had a gut feeling to go there and look for my nieces.

So my mother and I and the Collins family, Little Boy Kelly (ph), we all went to Myers Lake. I jumped out and started asking random people. One man said yes, he had seen the description of those girls on the bike trail going west. It`s a small lake. The bike trail wraps around small -- it`s not real huge. And within 20 minutes of us standing there, Evansdale police and Waterloo Sheriff`s Department were on the bike trail with their vehicles, went around to that side, located the bicycles and Elizabeth`s purse. [/QUOTE

In this particular interview, she's saying they ALL went to the lake, including the Collins family.

I think she means "the-Collin's-family-little-boy-Kelly". . .Collins family being an adjective not a noun.

MOO

 

[Jules71]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

Here is the post with the transcript, TB states this at the bottom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops are focusing on new leads. They say they want to talk to a boater. We`ve got some shots of boaters. Somebody was on the lake boating around in one of those little tiny boats. What do you know about that? Who is this individual?

BROUSSEAU: I don`t know who that individual is. I was on scene prior to the Evansdale police showing up. And I was on scene before the Waterloo Sheriff`s Department showed up. I had a gut feeling to go there and look for my nieces.

So my mother and I and the Collins family, Little Boy Kelly (ph), we all went to Myers Lake. I jumped out and started asking random people. One man said yes, he had seen the description of those girls on the bike trail going west. It`s a small lake. The bike trail wraps around small -- it`s not real huge. And within 20 minutes of us standing there, Evansdale police and Waterloo Sheriff`s Department were on the bike trail with their vehicles, went around to that side, located the bicycles and Elizabeth`s purse.

Just wanted to note: Tammy is quoted as saying the man told her they were heading west and she was also quoted as saying the man told her they were heading east. Both quotes have been looked at in previous threads.

Also in her quote above she says "within 20 minutes of us standing there, Evansdale police and Waterloo Sheriff`s Department were on the bike trail with their vehicles, went around to that side, located the bicycles and Elizabeth`s purse." So she previously said she was there at 2:45, and LE swarmed at 3 - so that would basically match up with her saying this time they arrived about 20 mins. later. But she says that's when Sheriff's dept were on vehicles on the path and went around to that side of the lake and found the bikes. It would not take them 50-60 minutes to find the bikes.

 

[MNDad]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

Here is the post with the transcript, TB states this at the bottom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops are focusing on new leads. They say they want to talk to a boater. We`ve got some shots of boaters. Somebody was on the lake boating around in one of those little tiny boats. What do you know about that? Who is this individual?

BROUSSEAU: I don`t know who that individual is. I was on scene prior to the Evansdale police showing up. And I was on scene before the Waterloo Sheriff`s Department showed up. I had a gut feeling to go there and look for my nieces.

So my mother and I and the Collins family, Little Boy Kelly (ph), we all went to Myers Lake. I jumped out and started asking random people. One man said yes, he had seen the description of those girls on the bike trail going west. It`s a small lake. The bike trail wraps around small -- it`s not real huge. And within 20 minutes of us standing there, Evansdale police and Waterloo Sheriff`s Department were on the bike trail with their vehicles, went around to that side, located the bicycles and Elizabeth`s purse.

"Within 20 minutes of us standing there". So in that same 20 minutes, what the heck were they doing? If I was frantically looking for two lost girls and someone told me they saw them heading west on the trail, I am pretty sure I would go that direction. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but the lake isn't that big and I don't understand why TB et al did not find the bikes before a 20 minute window when the cops showed up. It probably doesn't mean anything, I just don't get the lack of urgency at this point in the day.

 

[Shelby2]

They went searching right away-where? I think they were at the lake 20 minutes before LE arrived, that's in another transcript floating around...I think the wording was " we stood there for about 20 minutes when the police showed up". Because I remember thinking, " they STOOD THERE for 20 minutes? Doing what?"
ETA-I was supposed to include Sapphiresteels last post with this one, sorry

Also the quote is in the transcript I had just posted myself. Sorry for the brain fog.