IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[CHERIE.T]

As far as I know, no one.

If someone else saw them, they haven't spoken to the media and LE is not releasing any information about them.

Thank you GrainneDhu.

 

[nikb]

Couple more pics from the event this weekend in honor of Elizabeth and Lyric. I hope they're OK to post, they're from FB but not copyrighted or anything. So inspiring.

 

[Reverie]

For the locals, how close are the restrooms to the place where the girls' bikes were found?

I imagine LE has questioned grounds crew/ maintenance already. I have fears that perp/s may lie in wait for the girls to enter there. A taser and a large rolling trash can...another perp watching...a big truck...off to the freeway..??
Ugh, I cannot believe I just thought that. Sort of a little Kyron H and Jaycee D.

It is hard for me to believe that kids went missing just as often before MSM.
Sickening.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The last time Lyric disappeared and did not return home on time, she told her family that she was in a park. When Lyric disappeared the second time that week, Aunt T. likely thought of the park again.

Parks are created for children, but was there some other reason why Lyric "disappeared" in two parks that week? Could she have been meeting someone and a park is an easy landmark for both to find?

It could be.

How do you think she managed to keep the reason for her visit from her 11 year old cousin KB?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Lol, could is the operative word. I sure hope LE searched other places.

Chief Deputy Abben said that LE searched approximately one third of the town by the time they suspended the search until Saturday morning.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

Thanks Otto.
After more than a month, we have no known confirmation of the girls being at the lake.

I totally agree.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Not just your own opinion, if you don't mind if I share . I agree. I actually thought the first hour or so was scary but somewhat realistic, the last 20-30 minutes I wish I could erase from my brain. I didn't even think it was all that badly done until the "gross them out" part. Are there nonfiction books or movies you particularly recommend or got a lot out of? I'd be interested in checking them out. It's so unfathomable for me how these perps think but I'm interested in human psychology. I may not want to know, it's just so far out of the "norm" that it makes me think.

I read one by Robert Hare, Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us, that really really helped me understand psychopaths and the way they manipulate people, the risk taking behaviour, etc. And it doesn't hurt at all that Dr Hare does have a knack for writing a good anecdote, it keeps the book from being dry as dust.

There's a more recent book by Simon Baron-Cohen, The Science of Evil: On empathy and the origins of human cruelty. It goes more into the various ways that humans can lack empathy and be either relatively okay, deeply disabled or criminal. It was an interesting read, particularly since he is a cousin of Sasha Baron-Cohen, whose comedic shtick always seemed to me to rely on mental cruelty towards his targets. Simon Baron-Cohen's book is fairly dry and, unlike Dr Hare's book, it's hard to figure out the principles from his anecdotes.

This could easily be simply a reflection of my learning style. I do best by reading a few anecdotes meant to illustrate the principle so that I can figure out the principle on my own and then improve my understanding with a discussion of the principle. Trying to learn just from the principle itself, I don't do so well because I have problems applying the principle.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Chief Deputy Abben said that LE searched approximately one third of the town by the time they suspended the search until Saturday morning.

Thank you! I appreciate your knowledge about this case.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Not just your own opinion, if you don't mind if I share . I agree. I actually thought the first hour or so was scary but somewhat realistic, the last 20-30 minutes I wish I could erase from my brain. I didn't even think it was all that badly done until the "gross them out" part. Are there nonfiction books or movies you particularly recommend or got a lot out of? I'd be interested in checking them out. It's so unfathomable for me how these perps think but I'm interested in human psychology. I may not want to know, it's just so far out of the "norm" that it makes me think.

I answered this and then realised I wanted to address a completely different point.

First of all, I like sharing!

I just remembered that one of my objections to the movie is that it sounds like the last 20-30 minutes is not only horrible but could act as for an aspiring psychopath.

Of course, I haven't seen it yet and I don't plan to. I could be totally wrong and I hope I am.

 

[CHERIE.T]

For the locals, how close are the restrooms to the place where the girls' bikes were found?

I imagine LE has questioned grounds crew/ maintenance already. I have fears that perp/s may lie in wait for the girls to enter there. A taser and a large rolling trash can...another perp watching...a big truck...off to the freeway..??
Ugh, I cannot believe I just thought that. Sort of a little Kyron H and Jaycee D.

It is hard for me to believe that kids went missing just as often before MSM.
Sickening.

I don't live in Iowa but back in the early 80s there were 2 predators that hid in park restrooms in my town. They assaulted several little girls who innocently went to the bathroom. Fortunately the men were caught but little ones were harmed. So I completely understand you asking about the bathroom.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Chief Deputy Abben said that LE searched approximately one third of the town by the time they suspended the search until Saturday morning.

How do you feel about the area being searched with scent dogs ?

 

[nikb]

I read one by Robert Hare, Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us, that really really helped me understand psychopaths and the way they manipulate people, the risk taking behaviour, etc. And it doesn't hurt at all that Dr Hare does have a knack for writing a good anecdote, it keeps the book from being dry as dust.

There's a more recent book by Simon Baron-Cohen, The Science of Evil: On empathy and the origins of human cruelty. It goes more into the various ways that humans can lack empathy and be either relatively okay, deeply disabled or criminal. It was an interesting read, particularly since he is a cousin of Sasha Baron-Cohen, whose comedic shtick always seemed to me to rely on mental cruelty towards his targets. Simon Baron-Cohen's book is fairly dry and, unlike Dr Hare's book, it's hard to figure out the principles from his anecdotes.

This could easily be simply a reflection of my learning style. I do best by reading a few anecdotes meant to illustrate the principle so that I can figure out the principle on my own and then improve my understanding with a discussion of the principle. Trying to learn just from the principle itself, I don't do so well because I have problems applying the principle.

Thank you so much! If it's a reflection of your learning style it's mine too because I immediately related to how you described the books.

Mostly OT related to the book topic but related to the case, I've got a few semi-theories I guess you could say. They all involve either someone trying to "rescue" at least one of the girls - be it in a positive or negative way - or a psychopath like you mentioned. Still keeping an open mind and nothing I'm set on. It's sickening but interesting to read how some minds work. [ETA no one here or that I have in mind, I hope that was obvious, but in general.]

 

[nikb]

I answered this and then realised I wanted to address a completely different point.

First of all, I like sharing!

I just remembered that one of my objections to the movie is that it sounds like the last 20-30 minutes is not only horrible but could act as for an aspiring psychopath.

Of course, I haven't seen it yet and I don't plan to. I could be totally wrong and I hope I am.

Re sharing: thanks, me too! You never know if there'll be something useful in things people share.

Regarding the movie - I don't want to quote the name here and get them even more publicity but the one discussed very recently as a missing child horror flick - yes and no but I just realized that's why the last part freaked me out so much. Some reviews on Amazon touched on the same thing. If you want to look you can on Amazon. Various comments seemed to suggest it was a "snuff film,"(or close enough), "disguised child ", "a dare to do even worse," or "perp 101." <shudder> I really don't think Marc Klass would support the film if it wasn't at least somewhat realistic but I have to wonder if he watched the last 1/3 of it. Thank goodness for fast-forward.

Changing topics (sort of)... those who've been watching this case since early on will get this but suddenly jumping into a leech-filled lake seems not so bad! I don't think it's what happened I just like stuff that makes me think.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Re sharing: thanks, me too! You never know if there'll be something useful in things people share.

Regarding the movie - I don't want to quote the name here and get them even more publicity but the one discussed very recently as a missing child horror flick - yes and no but I just realized that's why the last part freaked me out so much. Some reviews on Amazon touched on the same thing. If you want to look you can on Amazon. Various comments seemed to suggest it was a "snuff film,"(or close enough), "disguised child ", "a dare to do even worse," or "perp 101." <shudder> I really don't think Marc Klass would support the film if it wasn't at least somewhat realistic but I have to wonder if he watched the last 1/3 of it. Thank goodness for fast-forward.

Changing topics (sort of)... those who've been watching this case since early on will get this but suddenly jumping into a leech-filled lake seems not so bad! I don't think it's what happened I just like stuff that makes me think.

I wont watch the movie but I'd like to know if you think it's an actual movie ...
or could it be a snuff film? That makes me ill just typing it.
How old is the person in the final third of the so called movie! Tia

 

[GrainneDhu]

How do you feel about the area being searched with scent dogs ?

I don't know because I don't have enough information to come to a judgment about it.

I do think it's more likely than not that the girls left the bicycles where they were found. The FBI spokesperson Sandy Breault said the dogs indicated the girls had been to the lake. Whereabouts around the lake has not been revealed, except via the family.

The problem with what the family said they saw is that so far as I know, none of them has ever handled a high level tracking dog or observed the two specific dogs that were flown in. I believe that they saw something but I also believe they may be mistaken in their interpretation of what they saw. Not lying, just mistaken.

I believe they were accosted on the trail at that point by an opportunistic predator who found a good place to find victims, marched off to a vehicle probably parked on Maiden Lane and then... I don't know.

I just keep thinking, the popular hunting seasons are opening soon. And farmers are going to be harvesting whatever the drought left them soon.

 

[cindersoot]

Neither.

How can you say that Otto? Thats misleading. The back of that house has the whole area in view. So please tell me why you don't agree??

 

[CHERIE.T]

I don't know because I don't have enough information to come to a judgment about it.

I do think it's more likely than not that the girls left the bicycles where they were found. The FBI spokesperson Sandy Breault said the dogs indicated the girls had been to the lake. Whereabouts around the lake has not been revealed, except via the family.

The problem with what the family said they saw is that so far as I know, none of them has ever handled a high level tracking dog or observed the two specific dogs that were flown in. I believe that they saw something but I also believe they may be mistaken in their interpretation of what they saw. Not lying, just mistaken.

I believe they were accosted on the trail at that point by an opportunistic predator who found a good place to find victims, marched off to a vehicle probably parked on Maiden Lane and then... I don't know.

I just keep thinking, the popular hunting seasons are opening soon. And farmers are going to be harvesting whatever the drought left them soon.

I sure wish LE would hold a presser and give us more info. Silly I know but LE's silence is torture. I understand them keeping information close to their vest but after 4 ? Weeks, I question LE even being close to finding the girls.

I like your mentioning harvest time. That IMO will help LE with clues or evidence.

I think about my children , especially my youngest girls.....when they were 8 or 9 they were momma's girls. Lol they didn't even like spending the night away from home. So every night since I began following this case I worry about the
Iowa girls being afraid, crying for their momma's .
I don't know how their parents and grandmommas are surviving. Where could the girls be?

 

[cindersoot]

I was at that Realtor's sit quite a long time ago, saw the same photos as cindersoot, and they were far from 'crappy' then. I would imagine, considering its location and all, they might be temporarily blurred due to an overload of site hits, calls, snoops... Sort of like many various listings, social media pages, videos and images have been altered, blurred, deleted. Doncha feel like a paparazzi? lol

I wondered that also. I know when I first saw these photos weeks ago they were very clear. Strange.

 

[otto]

I wont watch the movie but I'd like to know if you think it's an actual movie ...
or could it be a snuff film? That makes me ill just typing it.
How old is the person in the final third of the so called movie! Tia

It's pure fiction.

 

[otto]

I don't know because I don't have enough information to come to a judgment about it.

I do think it's more likely than not that the girls left the bicycles where they were found. The FBI spokesperson Sandy Breault said the dogs indicated the girls had been to the lake. Whereabouts around the lake has not been revealed, except via the family.

The problem with what the family said they saw is that so far as I know, none of them has ever handled a high level tracking dog or observed the two specific dogs that were flown in. I believe that they saw something but I also believe they may be mistaken in their interpretation of what they saw. Not lying, just mistaken.

I believe they were accosted on the trail at that point by an opportunistic predator who found a good place to find victims, marched off to a vehicle probably parked on Maiden Lane and then... I don't know.

I just keep thinking, the popular hunting seasons are opening soon. And farmers are going to be harvesting whatever the drought left them soon.

Police said that although the dogs tracked the scent from the bikes to the lake, there was no confirmation that the girls had been at the lake.

It seems to me that the likelihood of a perp spontaneously encountering the girls at that remote location is low. It's possible, but not very likely.