IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[otto]

How can you say that Otto? Thats misleading. The back of that house has the whole area in view. So please tell me why you don't agree??

The question was:

"Were the bikes found ACROSS the lake from this house, or just up the pathway from this house?"

The answer is neither. The parking lot is across the lake from where the bikes were found and there is no pathway from where the bikes were found to the house that is for sale. Maiden Lane is on private property. All the properties between Maiden Lane and the park parking lot are privately owned homes. There is no way to follow a path from the bikes to the house for sale without walking through several back yards.

The house that is for sale is of interest to some people because the owners have the same last name as that of the boyfriend of one of the moms. Realistically, no one is going to abduct children and take them to a house that is on the market because realtors, the owner, or work crews could arrive at the house without notice at any time.

Area Maps

 

[TxLady2]

If Tammy didn't get his name then how did the police get his name?

She may have been told by LE not to give his name. Or due to the situation, she could have just not thought to ask his name, but pointed him out to LE. They ALWAYS ask for names and contact information.

 

[RNER]

I wondered that also. I know when I first saw these photos weeks ago they were very clear. Strange.

When I saw them weeks ago, ReMax was the listing agent.

 

[cindersoot]

The question was:

"Were the bikes found ACROSS the lake from this house, or just up the pathway from this house?"

The answer is neither. The parking lot is across the lake from where the bikes were found and there is no pathway from where the bikes were found to the house that is for sale.

I still don't get what your saying. The back of that house shows the whole area. Have you seen it in person?

 

[TxLady2]

Perhaps someone can pull up this interview to confirm, but I believe a reporter asked her about this guy and her casual and vague response was along the lines of "the Police have his name and number". They were asking for information about POSSIBLY THE LAST PERSON TO HAVE SEEN YOUR NIECES, and that's the answer you give? No description, details, specifics. WOW!!!!

That's the only thing she could say... it's not her place to be naming names and giving descriptions to the media, or declaring who was the last person to see the girls. He was a random stranger who may have seen them...not a suspect. It's up to LE whether to make his information public... not Aunt Tammy's.

 

[threecrazykids]

Something just doesn't sit right with me when it comes to Aunt Tammy's account (unfortunately).

TB doesn't live in Evansdale, but rather Waterloo. And even though Heather and Drew lived in Evansdale, I don't understand how TB would have had a "gut instinct" to go anywhere in that town. If Heather and Drew didn't have that instinct NOR Grandma (who was there daily), why would TB even remotely think about that lake?

Even if their kids hung out together and were shuffled home to home and spent a lot of time at each others houses etc. it STILL doesn't make sense to me that anyone would have a gut instinct about places in a town they don't live in.

I agree with the prior poster who said it just seems hinky that TB had this gut instinct and low and behold there are the bikes. What made that gut instinct kick in? Hopefully everything has been shared with LE, and I'm sure it has...we just aren't privy to why the lake was the first place to visit even though the immediate family didn't feel they even knew the lake existed, let alone would ride that far.

I do NOT think the family is involved whatsoever, but I struggle to believe that "gut instinct" alone is what landed her at the place the bikes were - when she's not a parent of either of these girls NOR lives in the town they were abducted in.

Praying we simply haven't been informed of what led them to the lake search and that LE brings these girls home soon.

 

[TxLady2]

I'm glad your son was okay! Cattle are scary in connection with three year olds because they have hooves. A cow can be the sweetest creature on earth and still accidentally injure an adult by stepping on them.

I think victim behaviour varies so widely that it's difficult to infer something just from the elapsed time before a police report.

In the Riley Fox case, when Kevin Fox realises Riley was missing, he spent about 30 minutes searching the neighbourhood on foot before he called the police. The police thought that delay was hinky and it was cited as one of the reasons they suspected him and tricked a false confession out of him.

But it turns out Kevin Fox was completely innocent. It was exactly as he said: he thought 911 was a last resort in an emergency, after you'd exhausted every option available to you.

That sounds completely reasonable to me and I think in much the same way.

Other people demonstrably don't think that way but it doesn't make them wrong or hinky in some way. They just have a different way of looking at 911. Not wrong, not bad, not better, just different.

Thank you. I'm not offended by anyone else's opinion, because every situation is different. In fact, I'm not even sure that 911 was available in our rural area back then, we would have had to call the sheriff's dept. which is 20 miles away. I remember that it was stressed to the public that it should only be used in a medical emergency, all other situations should be handled by police or SD. And as I said, we didn't even consider kidnapping, we instinctively knew he had gone through the fence to the pasture, instead of the road. When I looked up and didn't see him, I went straight to my in-laws' house behind us, because that's where he always headed to. When they said they had not seen him, my FIL jumped on the tractor and drove around through the woods and by the creeks, which had maybe 3 inches of water, btw. In the meantime, I called my husband and 2 sons, who were all here within five minutes. After I called them, I walked around the perimeter of our place, calling his name and calling the dog until they got here. My husband told me to stay in the yard in case he came back, which I did.
We don't feel like we should have done anything any different. Maybe if things had turned out a lot worse, we would feel guilty for not calling for help sooner, but as it is now, we think we were fortunate.

 

[TxLady2]

They cannot enter the house if the key has been removed from the lockbox. Of course, that would mean that someone who knew the lockbox code would be implicated. There could be several folks who knew the code: every RE agent around, anyone sent to the home to clean-up or make repairs, etc.

I don't know how other real estate offices handle it, but when my son had his house up for sale, the only person who had keys to the lockbox were him and his wife and the agent who was handling the sale. Of course, they were still living there, so there were no repairmen or cleaning people who needed access.
I can't see the need for a lockbox if everybody and their dogs have the code to it and can access the house. Why would other real estate agencies have the code to a particular lockbox? No need for anyone besides the agent handling it.

 

[Bootsctr]

Not just your own opinion, if you don't mind if I share . I agree. I actually thought the first hour or so was scary but somewhat realistic, the last 20-30 minutes I wish I could erase from my brain. I didn't even think it was all that badly done until the "gross them out" part. Are there nonfiction books or movies you particularly recommend or got a lot out of? I'd be interested in checking them out. It's so unfathomable for me how these perps think but I'm interested in human psychology. I may not want to know, it's just so far out of the "norm" that it makes me think.

Has anyone seen "The Changling"? It was directed by Clint Eastwood and starred Angelina Jolie. It was based on the true story of Christine Collins and the abduction of her son, Walter, in the 1920s. LE went so far as to bring an imposter child as Christine's son. "Changeling explores female disempowerment, political corruption, child endangerment, and the repercussions of violence." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Changeling_(2008_film)

The movie is also based on the "Wineville Chicken Murders were a series of kidnappings and murders of young boys occurring in Los Angeles and Riverside County, California, in 1928. Wineville Chicken Coop Murders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Eileen730]

Something just doesn't sit right with me when it comes to Aunt Tammy's account (unfortunately).

TB doesn't live in Evansdale, but rather Waterloo. And even though Heather and Drew lived in Evansdale, I don't understand how TB would have had a "gut instinct" to go anywhere in that town. If Heather and Drew didn't have that instinct NOR Grandma (who was there daily), why would TB even remotely think about that lake?

Even if their kids hung out together and were shuffled home to home and spent a lot of time at each others houses etc. it STILL doesn't make sense to me that anyone would have a gut instinct about places in a town they don't live in.

I agree with the prior poster who said it just seems hinky that TB had this gut instinct and low and behold there are the bikes. What made that gut instinct kick in? Hopefully everything has been shared with LE, and I'm sure it has...we just aren't privy to why the lake was the first place to visit even though the immediate family didn't feel they even knew the lake existed, let alone would ride that far.

I do NOT think the family is involved whatsoever, but I struggle to believe that "gut instinct" alone is what landed her at the place the bikes were - when she's not a parent of either of these girls NOR lives in the town they were abducted in.

Praying we simply haven't been informed of what led them to the lake search and that LE brings these girls home soon.

Well Im not so sure your far off!
What if.......

 

[ShyViolet]

It could be.

How do you think she managed to keep the reason for her visit from her 11 year old cousin KB?

Do we know that the reason was kept from KB?

Kids keep secrets. In my observation, those from dysfunctional families tend to keep secrets very well.

It is also possible that an adult was told, but the adult is keeping it under wraps as well.

 

[nursebeeme]

Please remember the following when discussing the case:
Websleuths is a moderated forum. We strive to discuss cases in a friendly environment.

Things to know before you post:
Leave the snark -- and the rumors --at the door.
Treat other posters with respect.
Do not sleuth individuals who have not been mentioned in MSM either as persons of interest or as suspects by LE.
Choose the links you post wisely; don't link to sites which feature bizarre speculation, etc.
If you have questions or concerns about a post, alert on that post and contact a mod. Do not quote and/or reply to the post. If you do, and the post is subsequently deleted, your post is subject to deletion, as well.
If you have other questions in general, scroll to the bottom of the page and find "View forum leaders." There you will find a list of moderators available if you need to PM one.
Remember: you can disagree with a post and address it, but you do NOT attack the poster.

No one has been named by LE or MSM as a POI or suspect in this case.
The parents, whatever you may personally think about them, have not been named.
That means that they, and their families, their neighbors, and their friends and "associates," are not to be sleuthed or badmouthed.

:waiting:
Bumping this up. Also please do not discuss other posters.

 

[Sunlight]

I think AuntTB seems to have a lot of energy. I also think she has a natural preference to be as close to the centre of the action as she can get. I'm not saying that in a judgmental way, just in a "that's the way she is" sort of way.

If all the action was in the parking lot, I think that's where AuntTB would stay, rather than going off on her own all alone.

Okay, I just realised how to put it. I think Aunt TB is a classic extrovert who gains energy when in contact with other people. It's a difficult concept for this introvert to get but I have known other people like that.

I think Aunt T is the "fixer" in the family dynamic...the one compelled to try to put the pieces back together in the crumbling wall. The one that you have to watch, because she might just grab the steering wheel while she is backseat driving. My SIL is so much like her..she even looks like her lol. I love my SIL.

 

[callyn]

Something just doesn't sit right with me when it comes to Aunt Tammy's account (unfortunately).

TB doesn't live in Evansdale, but rather Waterloo. And even though Heather and Drew lived in Evansdale, I don't understand how TB would have had a "gut instinct" to go anywhere in that town. If Heather and Drew didn't have that instinct NOR Grandma (who was there daily), why would TB even remotely think about that lake?

Even if their kids hung out together and were shuffled home to home and spent a lot of time at each others houses etc. it STILL doesn't make sense to me that anyone would have a gut instinct about places in a town they don't live in.

I agree with the prior poster who said it just seems hinky that TB had this gut instinct and low and behold there are the bikes. What made that gut instinct kick in? Hopefully everything has been shared with LE, and I'm sure it has...we just aren't privy to why the lake was the first place to visit even though the immediate family didn't feel they even knew the lake existed, let alone would ride that far.

I do NOT think the family is involved whatsoever, but I struggle to believe that "gut instinct" alone is what landed her at the place the bikes were - when she's not a parent of either of these girls NOR lives in the town they were abducted in.

Praying we simply haven't been informed of what led them to the lake search and that LE brings these girls home soon.

Sorry, what I posted was against TOS....

 

[Bootsctr]

I wondered that also. I know when I first saw these photos weeks ago they were very clear. Strange.

JMO, but not only have photos become blurry now and some have completely disappeared, names from articles have been changed, and statements have changed. I think it is very strange.

 

[Bootsctr]

Another question for tonight and then I'm done...

If the bikes were staged, do you think that the forensic tests on them (assuming they are doing that) will help LE to make that determination? I don't know much about forensics.

There was some evidence that was sent off for testing. It was discussed here, but I cannot find the link now. I believe it was somethng new found, part of what gave hope the girls were still alive.

 

[nursebeeme]

I just bumped up the rules about sleuthing and speculation of family but am seeing it continue. Please take a moment to read the rules and post responsibly.

 

[Gracelin]

My first post on this case was asking the same question and I still wonder just how she knew to check out the lake area.

Can anyone tell me another theory on how T.B. felt they were at the lake?
This is my own..moo

Is it possible she found out about the lake second hand?
T.B.is the babysitter for her own grand daughter,while her older step daughter works.
T.B. needed to go out with her mom at 1:30-2 pm.
T.B.could have also maybe needed a babysitter for her grand child..
T.B. has a minor child who is old enough to babysit for an hour or so..
What if that minor had plans to meet her cousin at the lake.
T.B. put a stop to that so she could babysit.
Maybe they had a plan to meet with unnamed/unknown person.
Maybe, maybe, maybe, that's how T.B. knew to go to the lake..
MOOO Mooo Moo..


I think when you take simple questions and figure out answers the rest falls into place..moo

 

[Sunlight]

Otto said (in the post with the map)

" Realistically, no one is going to abduct children and take them to a house that is on the market because realtors, the owner, or work crews could arrive at the house without notice at any time."

Hmm...well, creeps who would risk abducting 2 kids might risk something like that I would think. Now that you mention "work crews"...work vans would seem normal then to be parked by a house like that for example. I doubt there is a huge amount of home shoppers tromping through regularly there, and the owner or agent probably only goes when there is a potential buyer..IMHO. Plus, because various people enter the house and touch everything and leave footprints everywhere, it would be harder for investigators to sift through those should that ever become an issue.

Just thoughts..MOO

 

[GrainneDhu]

I sure wish LE would hold a presser and give us more info. Silly I know but LE's silence is torture. I understand them keeping information close to their vest but after 4 ? Weeks, I question LE even being close to finding the girls.

I like your mentioning harvest time. That IMO will help LE with clues or evidence.

I think about my children , especially my youngest girls.....when they were 8 or 9 they were momma's girls. Lol they didn't even like spending the night away from home. So every night since I began following this case I worry about the
Iowa girls being afraid, crying for their momma's .
I don't know how their parents and grandmommas are surviving. Where could the girls be?

From what the family has said, LE isn't telling them any more than they are telling the rest of us. Which is good in a way but must be awful for the families.

I think the parents and grandparents are carrying on because there are other children that they have to stay strong for. I'm sure there are times when one of the adult family member feels like just curling up into a ball of hurting... but they have kids to live for.

The other children in the family still need a sense of safety and security, they still need some semblence of normality, they still need to have a happy childhood.

I remember how the Smarts were criticised when they took their other children to an amusement park while Elizabeth was missing. I could never understand it because their other children's lives couldn't go into suspended animation until they knew what happened to Elizabeth. Those other children needed to know that life does go on, that the world isn't all fear and pain.