IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[Simp]

It's interesting that some criminals do insert themselves into an investigation. I don't know but I imagine they think of themselves as sly. MNDad, your ideas are interesting. I believe they were mentioned in earlier threads. I know that some people believe that there had to be at least two perps involved but I don't think there had to be. I think one person could have done it. A menacing man, for example, would have been very frightening to me as a child. I don't believe having a friend along would have caused me to feel less terrified at the age of 9 or 10, either. It's possible that whoever abducted the girls used a gun (as was mentioned earlier in the thread) but I don't think that would be necessary. I think telling two scared little girls that you have a gun in your pocket would be enough to have them do as they're told. That being said, I can think of a scenerio in which a perp would not need a gun or to say that he had one in order to abduct two girls. I'll use THE white van, since it's so...popular. Let's say that a perp is walking around the block or to his mailbox. We can also have him jogging, or
riding a bike or a skateboard for that matter. He sees the girls. He pretends to fall at a time and place he knows the girls cannot help but notice. They stop to help him or maybe he asks them to help him up. They drop their bikes to assist the "nice" man to his feet. When the "nice" man stands up, he can't walk -- he must have broken/sprained his ankle. If the girls will just help him get to his van that's parked right there at the edge of the woods, he will drive himself to the hospital. Maybe he needs one or both to hold his hand so he doesn't fall. Maybe he needs someone to carry his skateboard/push his bike back to his van. Of course, they're going to help this nice man. They can't
leave him hurt and alone. It wouldn't be the right thing to do. It wouldn't be "kind." He's so appreciative of the help they are giving him. If they'll just open the sliding door/back door on the van, he thinks he can get in easier (or he needs them to put his skateboard/bike in the van for him). The girls open the door. Maybe they get inside to help pull him up. Maybe he pushes them inside. Regardless, he gets the girls inside. It's quiet. It's quick. It works. They're gone.

That just scared the crap outta me!!!!

 

[nikb]

I believe my post w/ the map has been deleted. I can't find it and it's not showing up on my lists of posts made. Maybe it was removed by a mod because I based part of it on a rumor. I thought it was o.k. as long as I made it clear that it was a rumor. I apologize if I did something wrong. This was just one of many maps I've made as I've tried to figure out how the girls could get to the lake in time for Mr. TG's sighting to be valid. I can think of several things that we have discussed here that has been based on a rumor but I know we have to be careful about that. Again, I apologize if I violated a rule.

Thanks!

EDIT: By "rumor" I just mean that it wasn't printed in a MSM article but someone shared it as personal information on FB.

Would you consider re-posting the map with the rumor part removed? I thought it was a really good map showing an alternate route.

 

[Sunlight]

I would also hope that someone this intelligent would also realize that if some of us here think something is hinky than LE most likely is putting this puzzle together to see what pieces fit and which puzzle pieces appear like they came from a different box. This type of person has the brain power to evade everyone for quite a while, so they are most likely successful in their other endevours, but as someone that is experienced at life, they also know that nothing lasts forever. They most likely understand the differences in punishment for abduction versus murder and since we have already established that do realize by now that nothing lasts forever and they will get caught, I hoping that they realize that although they have made a horrible mistake, that perhaps it is not too late to accept their fate with a lessor punishment for abduction only.

If it is too late, this wordly person will realize that losing a child is the worst pain ever and no amount of time, even after, let's say arbitrarily 8 years, that pain is still there. But the pain of not knowing what happened is a far greater pain. Perhaps they have a daughter of their own, or two, and when they look at them, the shame will guide them to do the right thing.

Supposing this person could have lost a child...depending on how, that could make a person act in a crazy manner. Just supposing. You never know. MOO

 

[Considering]

Was in bold subconscious, deliberate... or chance? Hm...

I didn't have it in bold so I'm assuming that you are asking me if the part you highlighted in bold was subconscious, deliberate or chance. I never have typed anything by chance. I'm not so far gone (yet) that my subconscious is typing without my conscious. So that leaves deliberate. Yes, I typed that deliberately. As an example.

That just scared the crap outta me!!!!

Sorry.

 

[superbee]

That just scared the crap outta me!!!!

Me too.

 

[dotr]

Familiar timeline- coldcase involving 2 sisters, ages 10 and 12 who go missing...
Lyon sisters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[palaminodee]

http://www.netplaces.com/private-in...adolescents/the-missing-or-abducted-child.htm
" Who is the stranger? Is it the neighbor who walks his dog in front of the house every day? Is the landscape worker or housekeeper a stranger? Is the clerk at the local store? The insurance salesman? The maintenance man?

Yes and no. They may not be the family's closest friends, but neither are they total strangers to parent or child. Some call this type the acquaintance abductor. These familiar fixtures in the lives of families aren't likely to appear sinister. People feel that they know someone who is often around, yet behind the smiling dog walker's exterior could beat the heart of a predator. Furthermore, statistics show that these — and persons even closer to families — are the most likely abductors of children. Doctors, teachers, scout leaders, school bus drivers, preachers, priests, coaches — even baby-sitters, friends, and relatives abuse children. What's worse, abusers often choose a profession that brings them close to under-aged children".

that's my opinion too, someone they knew or saw that just "blended" in and did not look " out of place"...maybe that is why no one noticed anything out of the ordinary/little or no sightings?

 

[palaminodee]

Considering,
Much like T. Bundy. His props were fake cast and unneeded crutches.
And what are we generally taught?

To help someone in need.:banghead:
Forgot to add, you have a good theory.

Slightly OT:
I belong to a FB group for ankle injuries and we just had that problem of a "cast fetish" person posing as an ankle injury person to join our FB group!
Some of these people obsess w/ people that have casts or actually get "fake casts" put on!! OMG I had no idea!

 

[nikb]

It's interesting that some criminals do insert themselves into an investigation. <snipped for space> That being said, I can think of a scenerio in which a perp would not need a gun or to say that he had one in order to abduct two girls. I'll use THE white van, since it's so...popular. Let's say that a perp is walking around the block or to his mailbox. We can also have him jogging, or riding a bike or a skateboard for that matter. He sees the girls. He pretends to fall at a time and place he knows the girls cannot help but notice. They stop to help him or maybe he asks them to help him up. They drop their bikes to assist the "nice" man to his feet. When the "nice" man stands up, he can't walk -- he must have broken/sprained his ankle. If the girls will just help him get to his van that's parked right there at the edge of the woods, he will drive himself to the hospital. Maybe he needs one or both to hold his hand so he doesn't fall. Maybe he needs someone to carry his skateboard/push his bike back to his van. Of course, they're going to help this nice man. They can't leave him hurt and alone. It wouldn't be the right thing to do. It wouldn't be "kind." He's so appreciative of the help they are giving him. If they'll just open the sliding door/back door on the van, he thinks he can get in easier (or he needs them to put his skateboard/bike in the van for him). The girls open the door. Maybe they get inside to help pull him up. Maybe he pushes them inside. Regardless, he gets the girls inside. It's quiet. It's quick. It works. They're gone.

Wow... that is frightening. That scenario would've worked on me easily as a kid even if I resisted the promises of seeing a puppy, or horse, a paddleboat ride, a cold drink, etc.

 

[Considering]

Slightly OT:
I belong to a FB group for ankle injuries and we just had that problem of a "cast fetish" person posing as an ankle injury person to join our FB group!
Some of these people obsess w/ people that have casts or actually get "fake casts" put on!! OMG I had no idea!

:what:

 

[Considering]

Gosh. I didn't mean to scare anyone. I hate scary things. I won't even watch the Wizard of Oz because of the wicked witch (and the flying monkeys are a kind of creepy, too).

 

[cindersoot]

I would also hope that someone this intelligent would also realize that if some of us here think something is hinky than LE most likely is putting this puzzle together to see what pieces fit and which puzzle pieces appear like they came from a different box. This type of person has the brain power to evade everyone for quite a while, so they are most likely successful in their other endevours, but as someone that is experienced at life, they also know that nothing lasts forever. They most likely understand the differences in punishment for abduction versus murder and since we have already established that do realize by now that nothing lasts forever and they will get caught, I hoping that they realize that although they have made a horrible mistake, that perhaps it is not too late to accept their fate with a lessor punishment for abduction only.

If it is too late, this wordly person will realize that losing a child is the worst pain ever and no amount of time, even after, let's say arbitrarily 8 years, that pain is still there. But the pain of not knowing what happened is a far greater pain. Perhaps they have a daughter of their own, or two, and when they look at them, the shame will guide them to do the right thing.

Normally sociopaths that would harm a child has no empathy, so I really dought they care. He is probally a narcissistic person and only cares about his needs. This type of person doesn't feel others pain, it's all about them.

 

[cindersoot]

I have a feeling that as much as the girls rode their bikes around town, I'm positive they went to the lake often and didn't tell. They probally came across the perp many times on the lake, might have been someone who rides there a lot. The perp friended the girls and set them up for the abduction. jmo

 

[TxLady2]

Actually, what you are describing is known as an "exclusive" listing, which in most places is rare. More often, the listing agent is uninvolved in showing the house at all, and the selling agent who escorts the buyers around, may or may not even work for the same agency as the listing agent. There is a complicated commission split for these different scenarios, normally, the listing agent gets a slightly larger share, the selling agent gets a cut and so do both of the agencies involved.
(my mom was a realtor for years in an area that does use exclusives as a rule, and I learned the difference when I bought my own house in a different area with her assistance. She loves to talk "shop" )

Thanks, I guess I'm learning more about real estate agents than I wanted to know. My middle son and his wife had their house listed for awhile, while they were still living there, and I was going by how that was handled. They didn't sell it, and finally took it off the market. They were not happy with the way the realtor handled things, she didn't call them first before she brought a buyer out, while they were gone for an hour or so. Then she tried to chew them out because a few things were out of place. My son got mad and chewed her right back, loudly! My DIL is an immaculate housekeeper so the house was clean but there was a glass or a cup sitting out on the counter, and they had left a puppy shut up in the bathroom. If I had been the customer I would have asked if the puppy went with the house, but that's just me.
Thanks again for correcting me, I've never dealt with realtors before, I learn something new every day!

 

[MotherOcean]

Slightly OT:
I belong to a FB group for ankle injuries and we just had that problem of a "cast fetish" person posing as an ankle injury person to join our FB group!
Some of these people obsess w/ people that have casts or actually get "fake casts" put on!! OMG I had no idea!

kay:

 

[nursebeeme]

guys.... we cannot post rumors.. or bring comments from facebook unless it is main stream media.. post the maps away at will but even if you put *rumor* in your post before posting it that is a no go.

 

[MotherOcean]

guys.... we cannot post rumors.. or bring comments from facebook unless it is main stream media.. post the maps away at will but even if you put *rumor* in your post before posting it that is a no go.

Thanks. I should have known better. Sorry.

 

[TxLady2]

http://www.netplaces.com/private-in...adolescents/the-missing-or-abducted-child.htm
" Who is the stranger? Is it the neighbor who walks his dog in front of the house every day? Is the landscape worker or housekeeper a stranger? Is the clerk at the local store? The insurance salesman? The maintenance man?

Yes and no. They may not be the family's closest friends, but neither are they total strangers to parent or child. Some call this type the acquaintance abductor. These familiar fixtures in the lives of families aren't likely to appear sinister. People feel that they know someone who is often around, yet behind the smiling dog walker's exterior could beat the heart of a predator. Furthermore, statistics show that these — and persons even closer to families — are the most likely abductors of children. Doctors, teachers, scout leaders, school bus drivers, preachers, priests, coaches — even baby-sitters, friends, and relatives abuse children. What's worse, abusers often choose a profession that brings them close to under-aged children".

Good information. And some people from larger towns might consider someone a stranger even if they know who they are, whereas people from small towns would think of them as acquaintances and not a stranger at all.
I "know" quite a few people who work in various stores and offices in town, but I really know nothing about them or their lives. Yet they would not be what I consider strangers. Children are more apt to think of someone as a friend after they've seen them or spoken to them a few times. That's where it gets scary, because children tend to trust someone they "know" when they don't really know them at all.

 

[nursebeeme]

Thanks. I should have known better. Sorry.

It is all good... all good folks... if in doubt read the warning under the opening post at the start of this thread or pm a mod.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I didn't have it in bold so I'm assuming that you are asking me if the part you highlighted in bold was subconscious, deliberate or chance. I never have typed anything by chance. I'm not so far gone (yet) that my subconscious is typing without my conscious. So that leaves deliberate. Yes, I typed that deliberately. As an example.



Sorry.

I know you didn't put it in bold, I did in the quote so you knew what line I was referring to.