IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #17

[Jules71]

Did WC tell the girls when they needed to be home before they left for their bike ride or did WC say when she looked out and saw them at the Lederman parking lot. Was someone else in earshot of WC telling the girls when they needed to be home.

I only wonder about this, as in the perp's mind, they would know how much time they had to work with.

imo

I just remember Lyric and Gma needing to leave at 1:30 to meet Aunt T in Waterloo. So then why again was Gma so worried that she went looking around town for them at 12:30 when she had just seen them 15 minutes prior?? Did she see something after she saw them ride by? Is this why her theory is someone could have picked them up on a side street, put the bikes in their van and then stage the bikes at the lake?? Maybe so! Maybe someone in a van followed them back from the lake. The girls pass the cctv and he picks them and their bikes up and basically has until 3 to dump the bikes at the lake.

ETA: Maybe that someone in a van is seen on the cctv after the girls rode by!

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[otto]

Do you by chance have a link to that quote, or was it paraphrased by media? Also, it is possible he transposed his thoughts in the moment, being focused on his puzzlement over the trip to Meyers Lake being accomplished in "8 minutes." If all the video camera's time stamp was off was maybe 1 minute, then 12:12 to 12:20 IS 8 minutes, if you follow me here. After all, he did NOT state that another's eye witness account was impossible because 12:19 and 12:20 are only ONE minute apart. This is merely one possible explanation for his somewhat weird statements involving that 8 minute stuff.

"Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case.

However, Pahl said the camera’s clock is eight minutes slower than his U.S. Cellular phone."

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisapp...-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html?m=y

 

[Jax49]

Sorry. I know what you mean. I did practically jump up and cheer when those guys ran over to the 'scene.' It was kind of buried in the interview but I was also so happy to hear that one lady called 911 (which is probably what I would do, knowing there's no way in heck I could take on the guy acting as the abductor).

I couldn't believe how many people did nothing, though. It might've just been how they shaped the story but it seemed like most of the ones who did nothing thought "oh I'm sure someone else will handle it/call it in/etc." All my life I've been taught that even if I think 100 people "must" have already called something in, call it in anyway just in case.

I didn't cry until the guys dropped their stuff and ran over. I loved that the 'older woman' was calling 911 at the same time. Everyone can do something.

 

[Marilynilpa]

You have to go to the basics. Only a few people saw the bikes or the girls. Everyone has seen the video. I don't think it's to tough to figure out. JMO

I must be the dullest light on the Christmas tree, then, because it is still tough for me to figure out. Can you please tell me what I am so obviously missing? TIA.

(But if your answer is in any way connected to bashing or sleuthing a witness, I don't want to know.)

 

[TechWriter797]

If the girls were abducted just after the CCTV sighting, the bikes could have been left there only to be stolen by two other kids who wanted to ride to the lake.

 

[Jules71]

Maybe we should have a local hang out at the park between 11:30 and 3 and see if they see any regular riders and/or runners. I would like to know if they still regularly ride or run.

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[ShyViolet]

August 3: "The girls' bicycles were recovered at Meyers Lake by a local firefighter at 4 p.m. on July 13. The girls were last seen riding their bicycles in downtown Evansdale at 12:15 p.m."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_9b33f71a-dd95-11e1-86a6-001a4bcf887a.html

Thank you, but I requested a link to back the statement that Mr P., Mrs C. and TG's daughter saw the girls "at or near the lake".

My understanding is that Mr. P saw them on video,later, near the Collins home. That is not at or near the lake?

I thought Mrs. C was gone at the time Mr. C said he saw the girls go by their home, so she did not see them at all that day?

And I have not seen nor heard anything in MSM about TG's daughter at all, much less that she saw the girls at or near the lake?

 

[cindersoot]

If the girls were abducted just after the CCTV sighting, the bikes could have been left there only to be stolen by two other kids who wanted to ride to the lake.

I never believed the bikes were staged. And couldn't see any other reason they would be there unless they rode there, but what you said makes tons of sense.:rocker:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thank you, but I requested a link to back the statement that Mr P., Mrs C. and TG's daughter saw the girls "at or near the lake".

My understanding is that Mr. P saw them on video,later, near the Collins home. That is not at or near the lake?

I thought Mrs. C was gone at the time Mr. C said he saw the girls go by their home, so she did not see them at all that day?

And I have not seen nor heard anything in MSM about TG's daughter at all, much less that she saw the girls at or near the lake?

You are misquoting me.

 

[otto]

Thank you, but I requested a link to back the statement that Mr P., Mrs C. and TG's daughter saw the girls "at or near the lake".

My understanding is that Mr. P saw them on video,later, near the Collins home. That is not at or near the lake?

I thought Mrs. C was gone at the time Mr. C said he saw the girls go by their home, so she did not see them at all that day?

And I have not seen nor heard anything in MSM about TG's daughter at all, much less that she saw the girls at or near the lake?

I don't believe there is a link ... that's why I posted the link confirming the opposite. No one saw the girls anywhere after the grandmother saw them cycling near the house and the camera captured them at 12:19.

 

[hambirg]

Thanks.

Absolutely it could have happened that way...

We have three fifths of nothing to go on when sleuthing this one.

Formulating theories that ignore what little "evidence" we DO have, seems to me to be against the rules of KISS.

I firmly believe a person intent on abducting a child would be looking for the quickest, easiest way to get a child.

Abducting two AND THEIR BIKES (silently, unseen) on a town street in the school holidays just seems wildly improbable to me...especially when you add in the fact the bikes and purse were found at the lake.

Take Jaycees abduction for example...they just took her. No staging, no driving around dumping/staging her property. Just grab and go.

But they were unknown. If this is somebody local they would need to do their best to fly under the radar. . .need an alibi, not be seen, possibly try to come up with some kind of cover where the investigation will just go away.

MOO

 

[mahoolin]

rambling thoughts and theories... MHOO, timelines and reported sightings excluded

if they were taken by stranger - or a couple of creeps who "got a wild hair" - grabbed girl #1 in the trap, didn't realize there were two, surprise - "two for one" as girl #2 came around the corner. Could have used the old "baby crying" tape to lure them in or something similar. This could work at the lake, but not in town (because perps didn't know the girls.) ***unless it was a stroke of genius to detract from actual scene of abduction they wouldn't stage the bikes at the lake.

if taken by someone they knew casually from somewhere between the two communities, I think the lure of seeing something exciting would work. Get the girls in back of a van or truck with cover would be good enough to travel a short ways if the girls were at least subdued in some way - tied up, tasered, etc...

if taken by or lured by someone they knew and trusted, it would have to be an urgent scenario, otherwise, they would have ridden bikes back to grandma. If perp took the bikes along, they had enough "nerve" to drop off the bikes later, knowing the traffic at the lake was light.

If local stranger planned to take specifically L & E, I can't imagine the scenario, but think of someone who was largely absent during those first 24 hours, only to reappear with vague whereabouts. Someone who since then has changed habits - become reclusive, bought a new vehicle, perhaps even quit their job or moved...spending lots of time on creepy sites on the internet...blah blah blah

Draining the lake, and even initially searching the lake captured the public attention for at least a few days. Not necessarily LE resources, but attention of the community (I've said before),who might have missed a crucial piece of evidence.

Girls, we're trying....lease:

 

[cluciano63]

OT

According to one news source, parents have been named suspects in the case of the little boy in TX who was found dead last night, Jake Kimbley...so sometimes LE will name suspects before an arrest, though I imagine one is coming soon.

 

[mahoolin]

I must be the dullest light on the Christmas tree, then, because it is still tough for me to figure out. Can you please tell me what I am so obviously missing? TIA.

(But if your answer is in any way connected to bashing or sleuthing a witness, I don't want to know.)

I must be the burnt-out bulb on the tree, I'm clueless!
.....wish we could get hints without fear!!!

 

[SapphireSteel]

But they were unknown. If this is somebody local they would need to do their best to fly under the radar. . .need an alibi, not be seen, possibly try to come up with some kind of cover where the investigation will just go away.

MOO

We are on the same page.

This level of planning indicates the perp was known to the girls.

:cow:

 

[ROM828]

sorry for the off topic but your post gives me hope. my DD is 12 within months and is not interested in boys as yet. There are a few singers or TV actors she finds "cute" but like your daughter, is very driven, choosing to focus on her educational goals rather than boyfriends or any of that nonsense yet. As she tells me, who has time for that and boys are just dumb at this age.

I sure hope my DD continues not to fall prey to boy craziness of some of her friends. Your DD gives me hope.

Back on topic.

as someone who works with this age group I can tell you that MOST girls of this age are not interested in boys beyond thinking they are "cute" and being smitten by them.....HOWEVER, I have met several, usually coming from disfunctional homes, with older siblings and a lack of parental care, that are VERY interested and to a point that becomes provocative....it is disturbing, very disturbing for a 10 yr. old.

 

[otto]

You are misquoting me.

"Add in Mr G, Mr C and Mr P, also Mr C's wife, and Mr G's daughter, and there are just too many (in my mind) CREDIBLE witnesses to the girls being at (or at least very nearby) that lake."

I don't believe that there are links confirming the above.

 

[ShyViolet]

I don't believe there is a link ... that's why I posted the link confirming the opposite. No one saw the girls anywhere after the grandmother saw them cycling near the house and the camera captured them at 12:19.

Apologies and thank you, my mistake. :blushing:

 

[otto]

Confirming what exactly? My opinion? Or the input from the credible witnesses that DO exist, and CANNOT be easily explained away?

I can post links if you require, but this is known information we have all been discussing since thread one so I really don't see why this is being scrutinised.

Would you like me to post a link confirming the girls are missing, too?

Sorry ... I didn't understand that when you said:

"Add in Mr G, Mr C and Mr P, also Mr C's wife, and Mr G's daughter, and there are just too many (in my mind) CREDIBLE witnesses to the girls being at (or at least very nearby) that lake."

... that it was your opinion that there were too many credible witnesses placing the girls at the lake. In fact, investigators have said repeatedly, most recently on August 3, that there are no witnesses placing the girls anywhere after the sighting behind the Auction Shop at 12:19 PM. I'm wondering on what you base your opinion?

 

[otto]

Confirming what exactly? My opinion? Or the input from the credible witnesses that DO exist, and CANNOT be easily explained away?

I can post links if you require, but this is known information we have all been discussing since thread one so I really don't see why this is being scrutinised.

Would you like me to post a link confirming the girls are missing, too?

Yes please. I would like to see links supporting the statement regarding credible witnesses placing the girls at the lake.