IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #17

[cindersoot]

Thanks to whomever posted the youtube of cycling down the trail.

She mentioned poison ivy on Maiden Lane. I thought that Ollipop posted that there was no poison ivy in that location. Another point ... completely unrelated to anything other than the Arbutus tree ... I'm curious how Arbutus is pronounced in Iowa. The first u is normally a long u, yet the cyclist pronounced it different than the tree. I'm curious ...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/arbutus

I just wished she would of went to the lake. I just might have to go back with my recorder and bike.

 

[Ambi16]

The honeybadger, lol. Love that guy.

Except for the nasty part though. You aren't nasty.

 

[CN2Souls]

But, I still go right back to.........................

Why take any extra time to move the bikes if they were anywhere within a 100 yard radius of the lake.....

Why not drive them over to Hanson lake on the other side. Or 100 miles a way to a dump?

If you take the time to load them in your vechicle why not really get rid of them.

 

[RNER]

The dogs knew the girls scent ( from something the family gave FBI), but the dogs didn't know the perps scent.

So the dogs are given a scent from someone or something to initiate them to follow/track?

I wonder if they were given scents from others, besides the girls.

 

[cindersoot]

But, I still go right back to.........................

Why take any extra time to move the bikes if they were anywhere within a 100 yard radius of the lake.....

Why not drive them over to Hanson lake on the other side. Or 100 miles a way to a dump?

If you take the time to load them in your vechicle why not really get rid of them.

Thats what I think, because it would be taking a huge risk of being seen. Unless he wanted it to look like a drowning, then maybe he would take that risk.

 

[CN2Souls]

So the dogs are given a scent from someone or something to initiate them to follow/track?

I wonder if they were given scents from others, besides the girls.

They had them walk infront of the family members to rule OUT their scent.

 

[otto]

Cindersoot...you crack me up. When I am catching up on this case, I always love to read your posts. You are the "honeybadger" of websleuths. Ever seen the hilariously inappropriate honeybadger on you tube?

"Cindersoot don't care!!"

Sorry had to add that. :worms:

Don't dought, probally don't matter.

 

[cindersoot]

So the dogs are given a scent from someone or something to initiate them to follow/track?

I wonder if they were given scents from others, besides the girls.

I swear I think I watched and read everything I could find on the case yesterday ( or I would of had withdrawels), and they said the only thing the dogs tracked was the girls scent.

 

[callyn]

Cindersoot...you crack me up. When I am catching up on this case, I always love to read your posts. You are the "honeybadger" of websleuths. Ever seen the hilariously inappropriate honeybadger on you tube?

"Cindersoot don't care!!"

Sorry had to add that. :worms:

:floorlaugh: ITA. Thanks for starting my day with a laugh, it was needed.

 

[GrainneDhu]

If the dogs tracked the scent to the water's edge to blood or whatever else was washed off in the lake, wouldn't they also be tracking the perps scent?

From the point of contact with the girls to wherever the perp went (with or without the girls) would the dogs be tracking the girl's scent or the perps scent?

If girls went or were taken one direction, maybe to a vehicle, and perp went another direction, maybe to lake or woods or trail, would the dogs be able to distinguish the 2 scents?

No.

A trailing dog is the type of dog the FBI flew in. Such dogs are trained to find and follow only the person who was on the scent item. If there was more than one person who may have handled the scent item, then that person or persons are lined up and the dog is given the problem "follow the person whose scent is not here right now."

To a dog, the perp would be incidental. The dog doesn't care what the perp did, the dog cares about figuring out what the person whose scent they are looking for did. Or, more specifically, the dog cares about what that particular scent did.

There are dogs that are trained to indicate on the problem of "who does not belong here?" The way such dogs are trained, all the people who were known to be in a certain area are lined up and the dog indicates on any scent they find that does not belong to someone in the line up.

This is useful in a situation where LE isn't sure if an unknown person was in a house or other private area.

This is not useful for a public area like Meyer's Lake because there's just no way to line up the dozens or hundreds of people who used the trail innocently. The more people in a cattle call, the more likely it is one or more won't be there. It's just human nature.

What is frustrating is that undoubtedly the dogs know what it is all the scents say. Who was excited, who was bored, who was scared, etc. The problem is that we humans can't communicate well enough with dogs to get the answers to such questions.

Right now, the best we can do is train dogs to answer relative simple, basic questions, such as "has someone been in this room that is not here right now?" If there is some way to get an answer by asking a yes/no question, a dog can be trained to do it.

The shortcoming is human rather than canine.

 

[CN2Souls]

Thats what I think, because it would be taking a huge risk of being seen. Unless he wanted it to look like a drowning, then maybe he would take that risk.

So, if we go with the thought the perp wanted it to look like a drowning,

WHY? ...... to have extra time...??? For What...?

If it was someone who was from outside of Evansdale, they would have just hauled a**, out of town

and been another state away in the time it took to stage the bikes.

S0..............could that mean it was someone local....?

Also, staging added extra risk of being seen, and leaving finger prints or Other DNA!

 

[RNER]

I just wished she would of went to the lake. I just might have to go back with my recorder and bike.

It would be interesting to have a recording from the video camera sighting (with consderation given to the Mr C sighting) all the way to the location of where the bikes were found during the same time frame and day of the week. Hey, today is Friday! LOL

 

[Marilynilpa]

But, I still go right back to.........................

Why take any extra time to move the bikes if they were anywhere within a 100 yard radius of the lake.....

Why not drive them over to Hanson lake on the other side. Or 100 miles a way to a dump?

If you take the time to load them in your vechicle why not really get rid of them.

I have the same questions. Staging the bikes IMO is an unnecessary risk. It seems the perp would either grab the girls and their bikes, or grab the girls and leave the bikes. Why stage the bikes to focus the search on the lake, when the perp could have gotten on the highway and been quite far away before LE got involved?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I just wished she would of went to the lake. I just might have to go back with my recorder and bike.

Unfortunately, it sounds like the city is busy cleaning up the weeds, etc, so that the lake part of the trail now looks quite different than it did when the girls disappeared.

I can see why they are doing that and it's probably good for everyone's morale to do so but it makes sleuthing more difficult.

My curiosity itch is worth nothing compared to the comfort of an entire small town, so I applaud the clean up efforts.

 

[CN2Souls]

It would be interesting to have a recording from the video camera sighting (with consderation given to the Mr C sighting) all the way to the location of where the bikes were found during the same time frame and day of the week. Hey, today is Friday! LOL

OMG..... I would pay someone to do that!!!!!!
I tried to do it with google street view and ended up car sick...:blushing:

 

[cindersoot]

So, if we go with the thought the perp wanted it to look like a drowning,

WHY? ...... to have extra time...??? For What...?

If it was someone who was from outside of Evansdale, they would have just hauled a**, out of town

and been another state away in the time it took to stage the bikes.

S0..............could that mean it was someone local....?

Also, staging added extra risk of being seen, and leaving finger prints or Other DNA!

Thats why I never went with the theory of the bikes being staged. This abduction happened so fast, its like a grab and go.

 

[GrainneDhu]

But, I still go right back to.........................

Why take any extra time to move the bikes if they were anywhere within a 100 yard radius of the lake.....

Why not drive them over to Hanson lake on the other side. Or 100 miles a way to a dump?

If you take the time to load them in your vechicle why not really get rid of them.

And why pick a place that practically screams you have local knowledge?

Staging the bicycles requires making a whole bunch of assumptions that make the theory shaky in my humble opinion.

 

[cindersoot]

It would be interesting to have a recording from the video camera sighting (with consderation given to the Mr C sighting) all the way to the location of where the bikes were found during the same time frame and day of the week. Hey, today is Friday! LOL

Yesterday was my birthday and my (bad now) husband forgot. So, Im going to see if we can go back to Evansdale today or tomorrow and I will video. That will be my gift, lol.:rocker:

 

[Sunlight]

I've always imagined that he might have been lurking off the trail itself, for example in that little path area we saw on the video that was posted...then stepped out and blocked the girls or talked to them (if they possibly knew him from the other "late" incident)...and then either forcibly subdued them with either a weapon or a lure...told them or suggested to them to park the bikes and leave the purse (or he put the purse down on that side of the fence by the lake)....then led them into the woods (where the dogs were said by the family to have tracked) and up through the woods to a parked vehicle by the pump station...or in that little grassy area right where the fence continues and the trail itself goes left and up going east, and then taken away from the area. MOO

 

[CN2Souls]

I have the same questions. Staging the bikes IMO is an unnecessary risk. It seems the perp would either grab the girls and their bikes, or grab the girls and leave the bikes. Why stage the bikes to focus the search on the lake, when the perp could have gotten on the highway and been quite far away before LE got involved?

Thank you.............

And if it was some one local and they were going to stage the bike for more time....

This is a small town, wouldn't some be like

"Oh hey, I saw Mr.XYZ unloading two bike out of his vehicle at Myers lake on July 13"

or someone from the highway while sitting in traffic,

"Hey, Ethel, isn't that Mr. XYZ throwing two bike over the fence down there at Myers lake?"

Just Saying.........................