IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #17

[hambirg]

Motive, motive, motive.

Two girls taken DOES NOT fit with a sexual motive.

The planning and execution DOES NOT fit with a random abductor.

The staging of the bikes also DOES NOT fit with a random abduction.

Means, motive, opportunity. Who had all three?

Not a paddleboater, a cyclist, another child.

:moo:

I do not see two victims here taking sexual motivation off the table.

There are plenty of cases where two victims were taken for sexual reasons. . .there are plenty of perps who have victimized two at the same time. Traffickers or child pornography rings would be just as interested in two than one. There is also the possibility that one was killed and one was taken to be victimized later.

Most of the similar cases we see here are sexually motivated or a child abuse cover-up reported as a missing child. We don't have a crime scene and I don't see the latter as being likely here.

I agree with the other two points though. And I also agree that this was no kids/bullies/mean girls scenario.

The snark in this thread is getting distracting. Use the ignore feature, flag a post, or otherwise just keep moving along.

TIA. . .MOO and all that. . . .

 

[GrainneDhu]

So in your opinion, do you think the dogs could of caught the girls scent on the perp, say if he carried them?

Yes, if the dogs had a chance to sniff the perp fairly soon. Scent may last through one shower but no more than that.

Clothes go through a lot more thorough cleaning than human bodies. One trip through the washer and dryer on hot and scent would pretty much be done for. Two or more trips for sure.

I'm assuming we are talking about skin rafts only and not something like blood.

 

[nikb]

SBM

As a kid, weren't you attracted to places that had a scary vibe? I know I was. <respectfully snipped for space>

A common dare and exploit amongst us kids was to creep up to that house and use the knocker. Then wait for a count of whatever seemed impossibly brave and bold.

A spot like that place on the trail at Meyer's Lake would have been a kid magnet in my day! "I dare you to ride to the woods at Meyer's Lake, get off your bike and push it until you get to the jetty!"

Ohhh yes, I remember that well. I was thinking Lyric was a little bit too young for this but maybe not. In hindsight when I was around her age the boys would always try to impress and then entice the girls with "I did it, bet you can't!". Elizabeth is just about at that "throw an apple at her to show her that you 'like' her" age vs. the "go on an adventure" age IMO but she's also very much in the middle. They're both close to that age of being interested instead of repulsed by boys, again IMO.

 

[Reverie]

Has a black Chevy pickup ever been mentioned in anything? Just wondering.

Possibly on Hollye's map?

 

[Confusion]

I think the perp is probably male or (much lower likelihood) a male/female couple.

In my opinion, the perp is someone who used to live in or near Evansdale but moved away at least a year ago. I think the perp still lives within a 60 mile radius of Evansdale. In fact, the perp may simply have moved to some other part of the Waterloo-Cedar Falls metro area.

The perp has a job that left Friday normal business hours open. The perp may work evenings or nights or has flexible days. I don't think the perp called in sick or traded shifts in order to go looking for a victim.

If the perp had some connection to Elizabeth or Lyric, it was an incidental connection. Saw one or both of them in a store or just playing outside. I doubt that the family knows the perp's full name, the connection isn't that close, in my opinion.


I think the perp found the spot and then waited for the victim or victims, rather than finding the girls and devising an abduction plan.

I think the perp lives in a free standing house rather than an apartment or zero lot line house.

If the perp is ever caught, I think LE will find a ton of pix of unidentified children at public places like parks, malls, swimming pools, etc. I think it is less likely that the perp will have obvious child porn on their computer.

That sounds a lot like at least one of the people I thought of. I doubt that he is an RSO, but is likely an SO who hasn't been caught yet. I tend to think he does have ties to the area though. I'd guess either a family member or a friend/co-worker, and that person could be an RSO.

I thought a partner could be someone who works in Evansdale and has a break from noon to 1:00. By planning the abduction during that time, the partner/friend could help with it during the break from work, go back to the job and maybe even still have time to eat some lunch and look innocent. If he was only gone for 20-30 minutes, it would appear that he didn't have time to do it; however, the other partner would have just completed the job once the he local person had helped to secure them.

I think he may live on the outskirts of Waterloo, and spent time at the pool that Lyric was going to, and also saw her (and Elizabeth) in Evansdale when visiting/working there. I think it's also possible that the 2 men may work at the same place, but different shifts. If one works days and the other nights, the one who works nights could then bring the girls home (a house in a fairly secluded place), unload them, drive back to Evansdale and be on time for work with little problem. That way neither of them would appear overly suspicious. It's also possible that one of them owns/manages a business and the other works for him, but I think that's less likely.

MOO, the reason for taking her when she was with Elizabeth is that the "partner" prefers younger girls, while the one who had been watching her prefers prepubescent girls.

 

[Snowbunny]

Is this lake area a state park of sorts where there might be a campground associated with it? Something drew these two kids to that lake for some reason.

 

[Snowbunny]

Do we know anything about the school system in the area. The reason I ask this is are the high school kids bused to another area or is there a high school in town. Maybe there was a Class Reunion held in town recently and someone from the past who was not so nice was back in town for a few weeks.

 

[nikb]

Well, yeah... ya know... unless someone specifically saw a GREEN one (and who notes colors of a boat in the WATER??), all ya gotta do is... maybe move it a bit. If it's out of the water, get it wet. They don't weigh THAT much. Anyway, just make it LOOK like it was.

I know it may not matter at all, but I do actually remember the color of boats I see on the water, and IMO green would stand out. Paddleboats not so much but I don't see them that often. Rafts I kind of make a mental note of "is it a rental or owned?" "if rented, which company?" And for ski boats I notice the make, model, and color scheme. I guess it's subconscious in case I ever need to report that info to anyone. (not the media as you can tell from my last post lol)

I think a paddle/pedal/whatever boat that was anything but yellow or orange would draw attention but I don't have much experience on small private lakes with those boats. I've only seen rentals as far as I know so "owned" paddle / peddle / etc. boats might be different.

All of that said.. yeah, I'm sure a dunk in the water is all it would take for a boat to look like it'd been used recently.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Is this lake area a state park of sorts where there might be a campground associated with it? Something drew these two kids to that lake for some reason.

There's no campground at Meyer's Lake. There is, however, a skate park right by the trail which undoubtedly draws kids.

There is a campground relatively near by at Hanson Lake.

 

[Sunlight]

That sounds a lot like at least one of the people I thought of. I doubt that he is an RSO, but is likely an SO who hasn't been caught yet. I tend to think he does have ties to the area though. I'd guess either a family member or a friend/co-worker, and that person could be an RSO.

I thought a partner could be someone who works in Evansdale and has a break from noon to 1:00. By planning the abduction during that time, the partner/friend could help with it during the break from work, go back to the job and maybe even still have time to eat some lunch and look innocent. If he was only gone for 20-30 minutes, it would appear that he didn't have time to do it; however, the other partner would have just completed the job once the he local person had helped to secure them.

I think he may live on the outskirts of Waterloo, and spent time at the pool that Lyric was going to, and also saw her (and Elizabeth) in Evansdale when visiting/working there. I think it's also possible that the 2 men may work at the same place, but different shifts. If one works days and the other nights, the one who works nights could then bring the girls home (a house in a fairly secluded place), unload them, drive back to Evansdale and be on time for work with little problem. That way neither of them would appear overly suspicious. It's also possible that one of them owns/manages a business and the other works for him, but I think that's less likely.

MOO, the reason for taking her when she was with Elizabeth is that the "partner" prefers younger girls, while the one who had been watching her prefers prepubescent girls.

If this perp is a SO type, and if this person has been deviant for many years, the "partner", if there is one, could be an adult or young adult that was groomed and abused by this person over the years and feels compelled to assist. Just a thought. Perhaps that partner is now also an active abuser and is younger and prefers younger children as you suggest. MOO

 

[mahoolin]

Thinking about breaks at work, some businesses close at noon on Fridays. Some places have longer shifts, with shorter work-weeks too, but not necessarily in every dept. I worked at a place like that. General public may not be aware and think everyone there works traditional shifts.

Just a thought.....

 

[mahoolin]

The entrance at the gate to the water, it was so creepy here, I was totally alone. This is where the purse was found.

Happy Belated Birthday
I thought you said you'd talked hubby into going with you?
You should have made him sleuth with you for protection, yikes! You're much braver than me!!
Thanks for all the pics and descriptions!

 

[Bootsctr]

I had planned on walking thru the wooded area from the gate to the pump house by the street, but man, it's really creepy and I saw a foot path, but I just couldn't do it.

Cindersoot,

Thank you so much for the pics and your impression of the area. Happy Belated Birthday BTW: :yourock:

Regarding the creepiness of the area, I'm just not sure if the girls or kids in the area in general, would have considered this area creepy prior to Elizabeth & Lyric's disappearance. As an adult, I think back to some of the areas as a child I investigated and went to including an old cemetary located in a wooded area on a ranch my uncle managed at one time. It was not a sunny area, but it definitely had an appeal to me. I wanted to read all the tombstones. I also went to a small lake near my house alone a lot. I was not supervised and allowed to roam at will most of the time. There was a cemetary there too. I also investigated the spillway, very dark and hidden although the highway was just right there hidden by the dense woods. I wasn't frightened, just very curious. Perhaps Elizabeth and Lyric were not scared of the area at Meyer's Lake and especially since they were together some of the fear factor would have been lessened. I am sure the area seems very creepy now. Hopefully, all the children are very aware of what might have happened there and they are being closely supervised.

Thank you so much for what you did for us and again Happy Belated Birthday! :bdsong:

 

[Bootsctr]

There is DEFINITELY a green paddleboat there somewhere. In one of the early interviews with Anderson Cooper, you can see it behind Misty and Dan as they talk. Gave me the creeps.

In the last interview I heard on JVM with Aunt Tammy by telephone, JVM specifically mentioned that the paddleboat LE was talking about was not the kind paddled with your feet, but a canoe-type boat that you rowed with oars. I say rowed, someone says paddled. I dunno! I definitely think of a canoe being rowed being faster than a paddleboat paddled by feet. What if the girls actually helped row? Someone showed them how and with 3 people rowing and doing it properly you could perhaps move quickly from one side of the lake to the other. Just a thought!

 

[otto]

In the last interview I heard on JVM with Aunt Tammy by telephone, JVM specifically mentioned that the paddleboat LE was talking about was not the kind paddled with your feet, but a canoe-type boat that you rowed with oars. I say rowed, someone says paddled. I dunno! I definitely think of a canoe being rowed being faster than a paddleboat paddled by feet. What if the girls actually helped row? Someone showed them how and with 3 people rowing and doing it properly you could perhaps move quickly from one side of the lake to the other. Just a thought!

Someone that posts here contacted local police and requested more information about the paddleboat. It is a foot pedal water craft.

Additionally, at this time, all we know is that police requested that anyone using a paddleboat that afternoon speak with police. They have said that the person is a witness. I think we need to be careful not to read too much into this.

 

[dotr]

Yes ! Katy last week I mentioned the girls or at least one of them liking boys ...I was nearly ripped anew one. :banghead:
I still feel like you do!
An older boy showing a little girl attention.
A little girl who hangs with her older female cousin.
A little girl that looks just a bit older.
It's likely, IMO.


IMO

If I may, a personal story (which I am usually loathe to do on the net) but...
at about the same age as L., a friend and I would - as an illicit adventure, walk some distance to a dicey but busy part of town to stand in front of the "weird crazy house"and wait for its' occupant to come screaming outside.
All the kids called her "The Queen of Sheba", I never knew why and still don't know why she had that moniker, but she had knee length fiery red hair, bright red lipstick and wild eyes and she always put on a show of throwing chairs ect. off her porch, to the great amusement of all us ignorant kids.

Well, one day I decided to go there all on my own, when the usual spectacle did not happen, I walked a bit down "Queen o.S's street to the small parkette in search of a drink of water, but found no water-fountain. I was now very hot, tired and thirsty and decided to sit at the bench a bit before heading home.
I was not there more than a few minutes before a very young man emerged from a truck (ya, a white one!) and came over smiling at me and offered to buy me a coke 'cause I looked thirsty.
I felt very grown-up and flattered (even at 10) to have this guy pay attention to me and since he did not look creepy and was kind of cute,I actually stood up, very tempted to go with him.
He looks all around and then somewhat startled, asks if that is my mother over there, pointing to the " Q o S".
Mortified that she was watching me and that he would think that crazy lady was my relation, I said no way and started to go with him. He hesitated again and I realize that she is now out on the balcony, waving and screaming and really "putting on a show".The guy turned on his heel and left me feeling angry at how she ruined my big grownup opportunity.
I never thought much about that incident till years and years later, when it hit me like a ton of bricks, that the woman we had cruelly mocked, had probably saved my life....

 

[Bootsctr]

SBM

As a kid, weren't you attracted to places that had a scary vibe? I know I was. There was a house a few blocks away that was the subject of an inheritance dispute that had gone on for 30 years between two cousins and even though it was for sale, no one would buy it because the title would be in doubt.

Of course there were stories handed down from kid generation to kid generation about how the place was haunted or maybe it was cursed or maybe something happened there that was so gruesome that no one could ever sleep there at night. Or something like that, the stories were limited only by our imaginations (this was before Stephen King).

A common dare and exploit amongst us kids was to creep up to that house and use the knocker. Then wait for a count of whatever seemed impossibly brave and bold.

A spot like that place on the trail at Meyer's Lake would have been a kid magnet in my day! "I dare you to ride to the woods at Meyer's Lake, get off your bike and push it until you get to the jetty!"

^5 GrainneDhu, may I just come to your house and we make brownies and talk and talk and talk? I feel like we have so much in common and I love brownies!

 

[palaminodee]

Thinking about breaks at work, some businesses close at noon on Fridays. Some places have longer shifts, with shorter work-weeks too, but not necessarily in every dept. I worked at a place like that. General public may not be aware and think everyone there works traditional shifts.

Just a thought.....

A lot of people in IA take friday or 1/2 of friday as a vacation day on a good weather weekend, the rest of the year can be really crappy! There is a lot of campers and boaters that like to get to those places on friday so they get a good spot, they fill up fast! I saw that all the time when I lived there. So they may be a weekend camper or boater.

Or the person did not work, worked a night shift or owned a business where they determine their own hours.

Or they work in a business that cannot work when it rains, eg: landscaping, roofing etc...it rained a bit that morning.

Or have the summer off, teacher, school guard, bus driver etc...

that is quite a big group of suspects since it occurred in the summer that it possibly could be...

 

[Bootsctr]

Scent can last for years.

Further to my post about motive - if it's not a sexual one, the next question is -

Who would benefit?

Someone already has.

:banghead:

Is there a list of the people who had to line up at the lake and allow the FBI tracking/scent dogs to smell to eliminate their scent from the scene? I know Aunt Tammy talked about "we all lined up and the dogs were taken down the line and allowed to smell each of us" to eliminate their scents. That is not an exact quote. Just remember her talking about it on JVM.

 

[mahoolin]

A lot of people in IA take friday or 1/2 of friday as a vacation day on a good weather weekend, the rest of the year can be really crappy! There is a lot of campers and boaters that like to get to those places on friday so they get a good spot, they fill up fast! I saw that all the time when I lived there. So they may be a weekend camper or boater.

Or the person did not work, worked a night shift or owned a business where they determine their own hours.

Or they work in a business that cannot work when it rains, eg: landscaping, roofing etc...it rained a bit that morning.

Or have the summer off, teacher, school guard, bus driver etc...

that is quite a big group of suspects since it occurred in the summer that it possibly could be...

Yes, lots of possibilities. I was actually feeding off a post above that mentioned lunch breaks. Meaning, we unofficial sleuths need to broaden our thinking...

Go Wildcats btw!

...throwing any thought out there that might help bring L&E home...
:moo: